Would a more centrist Labour be polling higher now? Watch

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username3672344
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#41
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(Original post by stoyfan)
In this day of age the Lib Dems are rather irrelevant and I don't think they will recover.

The main differentiation between the conservatives and Lib Dems is that the conservatives are more pro-brexit than the liberals. Idk for labour.
The Lib Dems could be key to Labour winning power, if they could take back some Tory seats in the South West.

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Midlander
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(Original post by Snufkin)
Labour should certainly be doing better in the polls. The Tories are shambolic, there's no excuses for not doing better.

Labour cannot win a GE without convincing some Tory voters to switch, and so far Corbyn and McDonnell have done nothing to try and convince them. They need to stop playing to their base and reach out... sadly, I don't think Jezza is capable of doing that tbh.
Aside from Corbyn campaigning in swing seats since the end of the election.


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Midlander
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(Original post by Chaz254)
Yes Bear!!!

Anything would be better than the current Marxists leading the Labour party.
Marxist my arse


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Midlander
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(Original post by DBR247)
Labour have an excellent candidate in the form of Keir Starmer. Starmer has done an excellent job of holding the government to account on Brexit and as an experienced lawyer understands the challenges we face unlike the current PM. He would capture the middle ground of British Politics as Corbyn is too far to the left for the majority of people in this country.
Wrong his positions have popular support. Stop copying and pasting from newspapers and look deeper.


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Arran90
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
Yes, the Labour Party needs the Lib Dems to recover and start taking Tory votes.
They need the Lib-Dems to be a clone of the Pro-EU Conservative Party from the 1999 Euro elections. That way they could potentially win Conservative constituencies that voted Remain but they pose minimal threat to Labour.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by stoyfan)
To me, Labour is too left wing and the conservative are too right wing.

I would vote for Labour or the Conservatives if they were more centrist.
I'm curious as to how May is anything but a very wet centrist. The current government is much further left than the Cameron government, they've even given up on the deficit.
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Mister Fantastic
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
Hear me out!

Since the 2017 election, the two parties have been pretty much level pegging in the polls. The majority showing Labour with a small lead, but some recently showing the Tories either level or with a small lead themselves. Labour haven't pulled clear, which they may have been expecting to.

I've seen a lot of commentators in the press such as Osborne and even centre-left folk claiming that if Labour had a more centre-left leader, that they would be way out ahead. Then again, I don't know if a more centrist leader would be as popular with younger voters.

We seem to be in a similar position to 2005, an unpopular government with an equally unpopular opposition.

Thoughts?
Ed Milliband would probably be polling 15 points ahead of the Tories had he stayed in power. That's how useless Corbyn and his cronies really are.
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username3672344
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(Original post by Rakas21)
I'm curious as to how May is anything but a very wet centrist. The current government is much further left than the Cameron government, they've even given up on the deficit.
I'd say she's just as right wing as Cameron. For all her talk of employees on boards and freezing energy prices, she hasn't actually done anything to suggest she is a centrist. It's all talk.

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Arran90
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(Original post by Mister Fantastic)
Ed Milliband would probably be polling 15 points ahead of the Tories had he stayed in power. That's how useless Corbyn and his cronies really are.
Miliband was charmless and there was something unlikeable about him similar to Neil Kinnock. I suspect that had he stayed on after the 2015 general election then he would be invisible like IDS was as leader of the Conservatives.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
Since the 2017 election, the two parties have been pretty much level pegging in the polls. The majority showing Labour with a small lead, but some recently showing the Tories either level or with a small lead themselves. Labour haven't pulled clear, which they may have been expecting to.

Ok first point to note is that all these silly little polls are a poor indicator of the reality. Most only talk to maybe 1500 people when in fact the electorate is 40+ million people. Note also that many of these polls are actually commissioned, so they are essentially paid for PR.

The biggest and truest poll was the one recently done in which the nation elected the Tories by 318 seats to Labour's 262 seats. The actual election. No further polls are required TBH.


(Original post by DeBruyne18)
I've seen a lot of commentators in the press such as Osborne and even centre-left folk claiming that if Labour had a more centre-left leader, that they would be way out ahead. Then again, I don't know if a more centrist leader would be as popular with younger voters.
I would totally agree.

The problem is that the Labour party has been usurped from within. A completely different party, the Marxist/Communist Hard Left Looney Party has risen up like a virus and infected the true Labour party and has now set about ousting all the original party members. Indeed many of the real Labour party members have simply walked off of their own volition because of the damage they see has been done by Corbyn and Momentum.

Labour CAN NOT continue to exist as a [email protected] party, as 2 parties in one. Doesn't really matter about the centrist bit. What matters is that it is a total and utter mess, a complete chaos, a raging war within a party as another entirely different party battles away to take it over.

What currently exists under the banner of "Labour" is simply 100% unelectable. You can not have a 2-party party vying to be the leader of the country, it's patently ridiculous.

In terms of the future then you're talking about which of the 2 parties will ultimately become victorious in seizing that "Labour" banner and using it for its own ends.

The "Jezbollah" Corbyn party with the despicable Momentum thugs are never going to get elected. Belief in such is pure delusion and the recent election is testament to that.

Corbyn had the help of a duped young electorate, he had the help of Remainers voting tactically for him, and he had the help that the Tories ran an awful campaign. Even with all those advantages he still lost the election miserably. Anyone who truly supports Labour needs to come to terms with that and root out the festering problem with the party.

The UK is never going to vote Comrade Corbyn and Momentum into government. Just ain't gonna happen. Ever. Corbyn has a reprehensible history, supporting the IRA, calling Hamas and Hezbollah friends and generally not having any real interest in Britain and its sovereignty imo.

In terms of what is left of the original Labour party, the more centric element then I don't doubt many might have voted for that element, though a great many won't have forgotten the damage the former centric Labour party did to the country with BLiar taking us into wars we shouldn't have been in and Brown bankrupting us with his uncontrolled spending and selling our gold reserves for an absolute pittance.

So, Labour have MASSIVE issues regardless.

The militant Marxist element is never getting into government, even if they manage to dupe the entire young electorate again. Just isn't going to happen.

The centric element bears the awful history of the past Labour governments.

The masses are given Hobson's choice. The disappointing Tories, Marxist Labour or a more centric Labour if that element gets off its @rse and fights back to oust Corbyn and Momentum.

The polls are meaningless and just a political tool for media manipulation. Go by the election result.

Corbyn has to go. It's that simple.
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dickwhittington
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Depends how you want to define centrist.
If they had generally the same policy platform but a more polished leader, then I could see them being a lot further ahead in the polls. What really bolstered Corbyn is how he managed to get youth out to vote. Whether youth voted because they agreed with their policy or just because they wanted to vote for "the absolute boy", I can't say
If, however Labour simply went with a watered down Tory lite manifesto then Id probably see them where they are now
The problem wasn't policy, it was Corbyn and how he has been portrayed previously which is a rather difficult thing to shake. We remember Blair for the war in Iraq, Clinton for his sex scandal, Cameron for gambling and losing the Eu referendum and Corbyn for his history

In saying that, we don't know when the next election will be and although its not a nice thing to say, its more the older generations that take issue with Corbyn and they will be steadily dying off whereas there will be more young people joining the electorate as they come of age who as a whole take no issue with Corbyn. Whether Labour can repeat the same as they did last time and get the young out to vote, time will tell

(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Ok first point to note is that all these silly little polls are a poor indicator of the reality. Most only talk to maybe 1500 people when in fact the electorate is 40+ million people. Note also that many of these polls are actually commissioned, so they are essentially paid for PR.

The biggest and truest poll was the one recently done in which the nation elected the Tories by 318 seats to Labour's 262 seats. The actual election. No further polls are required TBH.




I would totally agree.

The problem is that the Labour party has been usurped from within. A completely different party, the Marxist/Communist Hard Left Looney Party has risen up like a virus and infected the true Labour party and has now set about ousting all the original party members. Indeed many of the real Labour party members have simply walked off of their own volition because of the damage they see has been done by Corbyn and Momentum.

Labour CAN NOT continue to exist as a [email protected] party, as 2 parties in one. Doesn't really matter about the centrist bit. What matters is that it is a total and utter mess, a complete chaos, a raging war within a party as another entirely different party battles away to take it over.

What currently exists under the banner of "Labour" is simply 100% unelectable. You can not have a 2-party party vying to be the leader of the country, it's patently ridiculous.

In terms of the future then you're talking about which of the 2 parties will ultimately become victorious in seizing that "Labour" banner and using it for its own ends.

The "Jezbollah" Corbyn party with the despicable Momentum thugs are never going to get elected. Belief in such is pure delusion and the recent election is testament to that.

Corbyn had the help of a duped young electorate, he had the help of Remainers voting tactically for him, and he had the help that the Tories ran an awful campaign. Even with all those advantages he still lost the election miserably. Anyone who truly supports Labour needs to come to terms with that and root out the festering problem with the party.

The UK is never going to vote Comrade Corbyn and Momentum into government. Just ain't gonna happen. Ever. Corbyn has a reprehensible history, supporting the IRA, calling Hamas and Hezbollah friends and generally not having any real interest in Britain and its sovereignty imo.

In terms of what is left of the original Labour party, the more centric element then I don't doubt many might have voted for that element, though a great many won't have forgotten the damage the former centric Labour party did to the country with BLiar taking us into wars we shouldn't have been in and Brown bankrupting us with his uncontrolled spending and selling our gold reserves for an absolute pittance.

So, Labour have MASSIVE issues regardless.

The militant Marxist element is never getting into government, even if they manage to dupe the entire young electorate again. Just isn't going to happen.

The centric element bears the awful history of the past Labour governments.

The masses are given Hobson's choice. The disappointing Tories, Marxist Labour or a more centric Labour if that element gets off its @rse and fights back to oust Corbyn and Momentum.

The polls are meaningless and just a political tool for media manipulation. Go by the election result.

Corbyn has to go. It's that simple.
Sometime you post some pretty decent arguments which I can get behind, but I just can't get past the insane amount of buzzword you use.
You're like a slightly more coherent Daily Express comment :laugh:
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Mister Fantastic
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(Original post by Arran90)
Miliband was charmless and there was something unlikeable about him similar to Neil Kinnock. I suspect that had he stayed on after the 2015 general election then he would be invisible like IDS was as leader of the Conservatives.
Don't disagree but remember, Kinnock led Thatcher in the polls.
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Arran90
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#53
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How does a true Labour party fit into the society and the economy we have today?

Remember that Old Labour died not when Blair took over but because of the decline in heavy industry in the 1980s and the resultant loss in blue collar workers. Labour was set up for a heavy industrial economy where workers had long term jobs in companies that often employed hundreds of workers in same factory or coal mine. Zero hour contracts and the gig economy are uncharted territory for them. For some reason or other Corbyn appeals to large numbers of workers on zero hours contracts and the gig economy. Whether Labour can provide for them remains to be seen. A centrist leader probably will not show much interest in these workers and instead will try and focus on people in long term employment and the public sector workers.

Dickwhittington is right that its more the older generations that take issue with Corbyn. Labour voters who had traditional blue collar jobs and the security of long term employment who fail to understand that youngsters do not have the opportunities they had when it comes to employment nowadays.
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paul514
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This thread smacks of if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle. We don’t know and can’t know.

What I do know is that we should have an alternative manifesto from labour that isn’t just diet conservative and that’s what labour did for the first time in over 2 decades at the last election regardless of if you personally like it or not
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by paul514)
What I do know is that we should have an alternative manifesto from labour that isn’t just diet conservative and that’s what labour did for the first time in over 2 decades at the last election regardless of if you personally like it or not
Actually all you really got was a desperate "Free beer for everyone" manifesto that simply tried to play to all the emotional sound bites and issues that the duplicitous Corbyn knew were bugging people.

It worked for a while, the endless (but baseless) cosy sounding promises, but the truth will always out and after the epiphany of the blatant duping of the young electorate, who have now seen what complete and utter vapourware Corbyn's promises are and were, there must surely now be a lot of anger and resentment from them at having been so badly played like fiddles.

Labour are not a credible party, in that, it is not enough to simply trot out endless spiel about the things people are concerned about and to make continual baseless and un-costed promises to fix everything.

Sure, parts of the electorate just don't care enough about the detail and the truth and may fall for that kind of lame rhetoric, but far more people are older and wiser and see beyond the Corbyn façade and know what he truly represents and thankfully, those people will never vote him into No 10.

Labour stands in absolute crisis. A party within a party, with both desperately trying to wage a battle against the other to seize full and absolute control of the Labour banner. As such it makes itself unelectable.

This nonsense must come to an end. There MUST emerge 2 separate parties. I don't personally care what they call themselves though of course I am not stupid enough to fall for the notion that Comrade Corbyn and Momentum represent real "Labour" should they prevail in this war. They are nothing but a Marxist/Communist rabble who have dubious histories and use disgusting methods to get what they want.

Unelectable, unfit to govern.

The Tories are far from perfect, but at this time, they are the only real choice. That situation will continue while ever the Labour muppets fail to weed their garden and oust Corbyn and Momentum.
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JMR2019.
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
Hear me out!

Since the 2017 election, the two parties have been pretty much level pegging in the polls. The majority showing Labour with a small lead, but some recently showing the Tories either level or with a small lead themselves. Labour haven't pulled clear, which they may have been expecting to.

I've seen a lot of commentators in the press such as Osborne and even centre-left folk claiming that if Labour had a more centre-left leader, that they would be way out ahead. Then again, I don't know if a more centrist leader would be as popular with younger voters.

We seem to be in a similar position to 2005, an unpopular government with an equally unpopular opposition.

Thoughts?
No, Labour is a socialist party of the left, and it should stay that way.
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paul514
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Actually all you really got was a desperate "Free beer for everyone" manifesto that simply tried to play to all the emotional sound bites and issues that the duplicitous Corbyn knew were bugging people.

It worked for a while, the endless (but baseless) cosy sounding promises, but the truth will always out and after the epiphany of the blatant duping of the young electorate, who have now seen what complete and utter vapourware Corbyn's promises are and were, there must surely now be a lot of anger and resentment from them at having been so badly played like fiddles.

Labour are not a credible party, in that, it is not enough to simply trot out endless spiel about the things people are concerned about and to make continual baseless and un-costed promises to fix everything.

Sure, parts of the electorate just don't care enough about the detail and the truth and may fall for that kind of lame rhetoric, but far more people are older and wiser and see beyond the Corbyn façade and know what he truly represents and thankfully, those people will never vote him into No 10.

Labour stands in absolute crisis. A party within a party, with both desperately trying to wage a battle against the other to seize full and absolute control of the Labour banner. As such it makes itself unelectable.

This nonsense must come to an end. There MUST emerge 2 separate parties. I don't personally care what they call themselves though of course I am not stupid enough to fall for the notion that Comrade Corbyn and Momentum represent real "Labour" should they prevail in this war. They are nothing but a Marxist/Communist rabble who have dubious histories and use disgusting methods to get what they want.

Unelectable, unfit to govern.

The Tories are far from perfect, but at this time, they are the only real choice. That situation will continue while ever the Labour muppets fail to weed their garden and oust Corbyn and Momentum.
Well I don’t think the tirade was needed but 😂

Also just because it wasn’t a fully costed manifesto and it wasn’t, their corporation tax and closing loopholes numbers were hilarious doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have scrapped those tuition fees or the numerous other bits in there. They simply would have added to the debt, now you may think that’s awful but that’s why you didn’t vote for them, others believed the numbers and still do as they see nothing to suggest otherwise, or don’t care about extra debt.

Either way they won’t have changed their opinion.

If there is to be movement away from labour it will be remainers switching their vote back to Tory, a scrapping of the dementia tax, the government looking stable post brexit or a mix of them.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by paul514)
If there is to be movement away from labour it will be remainers switching their vote back to Tory, a scrapping of the dementia tax, the government looking stable post brexit or a mix of them.
There isn't a movement towards Labour to begin with, in that the country already supports the Tories more than Labour as witnessed by the recent election.

I agree that many Remainers, who used their vote tactically to try and scupper BrExit will next time just vote normally. So Labour won't have that privilege and crutch to lean on. Equally there will be a good proportion of students who have quickly become older and wiser and seen Corbyn for what he is, realised that he duped them to get votes. So Labour won't have that crutch either.

And finally, at the next election, and in the period before it, the Tories will no longer sit on their @rses thinking it's in the bag. They will mobilise and put out a strong campaign. They may have even installed a new leader instead of May who knows? Bottom line is Labour won't have the luxury of campaigning in an election with no tangible opposition campaign.

With all 3 of those crutches to lean on at the last election, Labour should have had a landslide victory if people really supported them. That they lost 318 seats to 262 shows then how disastrously they performed and how little actual support there is.

Take away those crutches and Labour will suffer a landslide defeat at the next election, all else being equal. Of course there are plenty of things to make the situation not equal. As BrExit plays out, all sorts of things could emerge. Who knows?
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username3672344
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Actually all you really got was a desperate "Free beer for everyone" manifesto that simply tried to play to all the emotional sound bites and issues that the duplicitous Corbyn knew were bugging people.

It worked for a while, the endless (but baseless) cosy sounding promises, but the truth will always out and after the epiphany of the blatant duping of the young electorate, who have now seen what complete and utter vapourware Corbyn's promises are and were, there must surely now be a lot of anger and resentment from them at having been so badly played like fiddles.

Labour are not a credible party, in that, it is not enough to simply trot out endless spiel about the things people are concerned about and to make continual baseless and un-costed promises to fix everything.

Sure, parts of the electorate just don't care enough about the detail and the truth and may fall for that kind of lame rhetoric, but far more people are older and wiser and see beyond the Corbyn façade and know what he truly represents and thankfully, those people will never vote him into No 10.

Labour stands in absolute crisis. A party within a party, with both desperately trying to wage a battle against the other to seize full and absolute control of the Labour banner. As such it makes itself unelectable.

This nonsense must come to an end. There MUST emerge 2 separate parties. I don't personally care what they call themselves though of course I am not stupid enough to fall for the notion that Comrade Corbyn and Momentum represent real "Labour" should they prevail in this war. They are nothing but a Marxist/Communist rabble who have dubious histories and use disgusting methods to get what they want.

Unelectable, unfit to govern.

The Tories are far from perfect, but at this time, they are the only real choice. That situation will continue while ever the Labour muppets fail to weed their garden and oust Corbyn and Momentum.
Two points:

(1) you need to make your posts shorter. Most people won't take the time to read paragraph after paragraph.
Especially when most of your paragraphs seem to say the same thing

(2) you need to make your posts less dramatic, sensationalist 'end of the world' type stuff. It's not really conducive to any type of debate.
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Arran90
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I mentioned back in March 2016

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho...&postcount=161

"The challenge that Labour faces is being able to appeal to a diverse and disparate selection of the population with conflicting interests. The Conservatives seem to have a support base that is large enough to sustain them to being the largest party in Parliament."

Also

"As I have previously stated, the sticking point with Corbyn is his foreign and defence policies more so than his economic policies. The Muslims and the progressive left love them. The white working class and middle England hate them. Labour under Corbyn is the sort of party that could get 90% of the vote in Tower Hamlets or Islington but would be third place behind both the Conservatives and UKIP in places like Cannock or Basildon - the places they need to win in order to win the 2020 general election."

A referendum on the EU and a general election later, the following factors still hold strong although they managed to beat UKIP in Cannock and Basildon. No matter which way Labour moves is that they will win new supporters but at the same time lose existing supporters.

There's certainly a chunk of the electorate that will vote Labour rain or shine regardless of who is leader. There's also a chunk of the electorate who holds a don't know / don't mind / don't care attitude towards Brexit and the EU probably because they don't understand it well enough or realise how it affects their life. Although the A and B socioeconomic groups gravitated towards Remain, and the C2 and D socioeconomic groups gravitated towards Leave, the E socioeconomic group (the underclass and single mothers on the dole) swung back towards Remain. Often for spurious or daft reasons like the EU subsidises their children's breaktime milk at primary school.
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