Would a more centrist Labour be polling higher now? Watch

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paul514
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#161
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#161
(Original post by DeBruyne18)
The best word to describe their progress is sluggish.

Put it this way, if Gordon Brown won in 2010, we wouldn't be in a worse position than we are now.

Portugal have successfully spent their way out of a recession. Why can't we do the same?
Here’s the thing how much extra growth would we have seen and how much extra debt as that’s the real question. One must be balanced with the other
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Rakas21
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#162
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
The best word to describe their progress is sluggish.

Put it this way, if Gordon Brown won in 2010, we wouldn't be in a worse position than we are now.

Portugal have successfully spent their way out of a recession. Why can't we do the same?
Perhaps but Labour may not have gone even as far as the Tories. McDonnel for example considers job done already.

When we vote for governments we vote for priorities. I at least want some degree of effort on cutting tax and spend, on means testing, generating competition.

The current lot are not stellar but I prefer their priorities.
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username3672344
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#163
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#163
(Original post by Rakas21)
Perhaps but Labour may not have gone even as far as the Tories. McDonnel for example considers job done already.

When we vote for governments we vote for priorities. I at least want some degree of effort on cutting tax and spend, on means testing, generating competition.

The current lot are not stellar but I prefer their priorities.
There is such a thing as a deficit fetish. Running a surplus for the sake of it is not always preferable if it means you aren't making the investments that your economy needs.
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paul514
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#164
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
There is such a thing as a deficit fetish. Running a surplus for the sake of it is not always preferable if it means you aren't making the investments that your economy needs.
Unless you inflate your way out of debt you need to pay them back
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Rakas21
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#165
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
There is such a thing as a deficit fetish. Running a surplus for the sake of it is not always preferable if it means you aren't making the investments that your economy needs.
That assumes that we can't source capital expenditure from elsewhere.
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username3672344
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#166
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#166
(Original post by Rakas21)
That assumes that we can't source capital expenditure from elsewhere.
Which we can't. Taxes should generally be higher on the highest earners and corporations.
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username3672344
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#167
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#167
(Original post by paul514)
Here’s the thing how much extra growth would we have seen and how much extra debt as that’s the real question. One must be balanced with the other
If Brown won in 2010 or was replaced by David Miliband, we would still have seen cuts but at a slower rate which wouldn't have damaged growth as much.
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paul514
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
If Brown won in 2010 or was replaced by David Miliband, we would still have seen cuts but at a slower rate which wouldn't have damaged growth as much.
That’s a supposition, but I’ll go along with it. Now you tell me how much extra growth and how much extra debt?
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Rakas21
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
Which we can't. Taxes should generally be higher on the highest earners and corporations.
Of course we can. We are wasting money on foreign aid, giving freebies to rich pensioners, performing adult transgender surgeries ECT.. There are still cuts to be made.
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username3672344
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#170
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Of course we can. We are wasting money on foreign aid, giving freebies to rich pensioners, performing adult transgender surgeries ECT.. There are still cuts to be made.
Are we wasting money on foreign aid? How do you know that it's not making a real positive impact that benefits us in the long term?

All people deserve a pension, rich or poor. The concept of universality is vital.
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Arran90
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#171
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It could still be argued that Jeremy Corbyn is a public reaction to David Cameron and George Osborne with their ideological commitment to austerity. Perhaps if we had a more centrist and more generous Conservative government between 2010 and 2015 then we would have a more centrist Labour Party today and Jeremy Corbyn would be an obscure backbencher looking to retire quietly at the next general election.

The problem now is that the 2017 general election has cemented Jeremy Corbyn into place. It's possible that had Theresa May not called that election then, regardless of (unknown) public support for Jeremy Corbyn, his opponents in Labour could use the weapon that he was a good choice in 2015 but is now a relic of the David Cameron and George Osborne era mounting an ideological opposition to politicians which are no longer in power. The political battleground has changed since the referendum and Labour needs a new leader who is a serious challenger to Theresa May. Jeremy Corbyn could then be dismissed as a man with a messianic cult following who is not a serious politician.
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So-Sarah
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#172
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Corbyn basically is a centist, we'd soon see that if he came to power - I mean what kind of a 'revolutionary' spends most of his spare time planting cabbages in an allotment - unless of course, he is actually a cabbage himself
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Stewpid
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#173
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
Hear me out!

Since the 2017 election, the two parties have been pretty much level pegging in the polls. The majority showing Labour with a small lead, but some recently showing the Tories either level or with a small lead themselves. Labour haven't pulled clear, which they may have been expecting to.

I've seen a lot of commentators in the press such as Osborne and even centre-left folk claiming that if Labour had a more centre-left leader, that they would be way out ahead. Then again, I don't know if a more centrist leader would be as popular with younger voters.

We seem to be in a similar position to 2005, an unpopular government with an equally unpopular opposition.

Thoughts?
By centre I think they need to move over the political compass a bit and associate themselves more with the problems of the working class mainly on immigration and social issues. Put it this way someone in the same sort of political territory as Ed Miliband who's anti-EU and Anti- Immigration will do. Even though he's a tory i think Farage would do a cracking job if he became leader of the Labour Party.

This is where I see Labour under Corbyn at current and where they need to be to win.
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Stewpid
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(Original post by DeBruyne18)
Are we wasting money on foreign aid? How do you know that it's not making a real positive impact that benefits us in the long term?

All people deserve a pension, rich or poor. The concept of universality is vital.
The Government have that much of a high foreign aid budget they are struggling to spend it shown in the article below. Why not re-assign some of the funds to stop the growth of extremism in muslim communities and bring some of our homeless into accomodation we need to spend our funds more wisely- what is more important the government helping it's citizens or signing money off to corrupt government officials particularly in North and Central Africa.
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Midlander
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(Original post by Arran90)
It could still be argued that Jeremy Corbyn is a public reaction to David Cameron and George Osborne with their ideological commitment to austerity. Perhaps if we had a more centrist and more generous Conservative government between 2010 and 2015 then we would have a more centrist Labour Party today and Jeremy Corbyn would be an obscure backbencher looking to retire quietly at the next general election.

The problem now is that the 2017 general election has cemented Jeremy Corbyn into place. It's possible that had Theresa May not called that election then, regardless of (unknown) public support for Jeremy Corbyn, his opponents in Labour could use the weapon that he was a good choice in 2015 but is now a relic of the David Cameron and George Osborne era mounting an ideological opposition to politicians which are no longer in power. The political battleground has changed since the referendum and Labour needs a new leader who is a serious challenger to Theresa May. Jeremy Corbyn could then be dismissed as a man with a messianic cult following who is not a serious politician.
The Bullingdon government in coalition with the Lib Dems was as generous as a Tory government is ever likely to get. Perish the thought that the Labour Party actually adopts progressive policies and has a leader committed to these policies. Wishy washy centrism turned me right off the party in 2015 and would do so again.
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ben.anderson
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This is a very interesting question. While I'm personally a conservative voter. I think JC has been incredible getting young people interested in politics, which has not been seen in years.

The problem is while JC gets the rallies and puts on the great campaigns. He's struggling to attract the average middle-wage earning family and of course the rich, who don't often go out to rallies as they have families etc.. which makes Theresa May look bad when she has about 5 people around her when campaigning.

A centrist labour did attract the middle wage earners in 1997, which is how I believe they won. The only problem with the center is that its accosicated with the now unpopular Tony Blair, and that has benefited JC.

Others may disagree but in the current climate, I believe a David Milliband led centrist labour party would win a majority by at least 40/50 seats. So personally I think they would poll higher at the moment if they were more centrist.
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m005eman
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#177
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I'd say Labour has a chance in the next election, as the younger generation are becoming more politically empowered, and the tories are not seen as good guys at the moment. It's just Corbyn was very controversial, and with labour split and in tatters at the last election, it didn't seem like the strongest party to have lead us out of the EU, because lets face it, calling for another referendum just wouldn't happen and would just harm our countries politics further. Labour had a shot, its just May was a clever and executed a well timed election, but she didn't help herself by hardly publicising herself, and Corbyn executed a very strong campaign, that overshadowed May's campaign, but Tory voters would've been hard to persuade with all that went on with Corbyn and labour before the election.
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So-Sarah
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#178
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Corbyn is too much of a pacifist, and people don't want this kind of weakness right now, due to all the threats out there
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Napp
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#179
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(Original post by So-Sarah)
Corbyn is too much of a pacifist, and people don't want this kind of weakness right now, due to all the threats out there
What threats?
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So-Sarah
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#180
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#180
Isis, Iran, North Korea, Putin, stuff going down in the ME, other terror groups, unforseen happenings etc.., serioulsy, what good would peacnik Jezza be then
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