How can you 'feel like' a boy or girl?

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TrueBruce
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I understand that one could feel that they have more masculine or feminine traits and prefer things that society would not deem appropriate for their sex, but I do not understand how these are relevant to your sex.
If you want to dress and act the way that society would expect from the opposite sex, do you really need to be accepted by society as someone of the opposite sex? If a boy likes to wear dresses and wants to be called Christine does it mean he is in fact a girl and was minsgendered at birth?

Forgive me if I am being ignorant, but I don't know any trans people so I struggle to understand the concept of gender dysphoria.
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ambershell27
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I get you to some degree. How can we abolish gender stereotypes but at same time have a trans community? I'm supportive of basically doing whatever the frick you want as long as it doesn't physically affect others but I also want to understand more.
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Dan Deplorable
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It's a load of rubbish. Just gobbledygook made up by mentally ill liberals.
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username3434964
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(Original post by Dan Deplorable)
It's a load of rubbish. Just gobbledygook made up by mentally ill liberals.
Well it's not, but I doubt anything will change your view.
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awkwardshortguy
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When it comes to gender dysphoria I think it comes down to feeling like they should have the body of someone of a different sex to them. If a boy wears dresses as girls more typically do and wants to be called Christine he may just enjoy feeling or being made to feel feminine, which wouldn't imply he has gender dysphoria. I think someone could be gender dysphoric, and then go through hrt and surgery but still want to wear the clothes and engage in the behaviours more typically associated with their assigned gender. So really I think sex dysphoric would be a more fitting term. That's my understanding at least but I could well be wrong.
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username3434964
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Gender dysphoria is difficult to explain, but so bad for people who experience it...

copied from the NHS website because I just cannot explain it:

This mismatch between sex and gender identity can lead to distressing and uncomfortable feelings that are called gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate. It's not a mental illness.
Some people with gender dysphoria have a strong and persistent desire to live according to their gender identity, rather than their biological sex. These people are sometimes called transsexual or trans people. Some trans people have treatment to make their physical appearance more consistent with their gender identity.

You just feel desperate to live life as another gender, and for people to see you that way. You hate the parts of your body that define you as either having a male or female sex. You are desperate to get rid of them, and will do as much as you can to hide them etc.

Say you were a boy, imagine yourself as the same person, but in a female body. You would want it to change, and overtime that feeling just gets worse and worse and worse. It can get to the point where people would rather die than live life as the gender you are assigned.


I personally don't think its about how masculine / feminine you present, but how masculine/feminine you feel, and how you want people to perceive you (i.e. as a male, female or whatever else you are). How you present can just help people perceive you in the way you want, but doesn't define your gender.


A closeted fTm who presents as female (as they are closeted) still identifies as male, even if they aren't wearing mens clothes etc


(Original post by TrueBruce)
I understand that one could feel that they have more masculine or feminine traits and prefer things that society would not deem appropriate for their sex, but I do not understand how these are relevant to your sex.
If you want to dress and act the way that society would expect from the opposite sex, do you really need to be accepted by society as someone of the opposite sex? If a boy likes to wear dresses and wants to be called Christine does it mean he is in fact a girl and was minsgendered at birth?

Forgive me if I am being ignorant, but I don't know any trans people so I struggle to understand the concept of gender dysphoria.
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Anxnymous
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I think its feeling like you want features that the opposite sex possess. For example a girl wanting facial hair? idk.

I'm female but at times i dont feel female. sometimes I feel like I have no gender.
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louie123
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I am trans and consequently suffer the horrific condition that is gender dysphoria . I was born a female but it’s not like I ‘feel like’ a boy it’s like I am a boy . My brain is man and my body is not . It constantly feels like an awful disconnection and sometimes I can physically feel it like I feel I’m in control of someone else’s body because it just doesn’t feel like mine . If you’re a cisgender man: imagine waking up tomorrow and seeing that your penis has been replaced with a vagina. All that hair on your body has been stripped . You no longer have broad shoulders , instead they’re now narrow and your hips are curvy. Your jaw seems to have disappeared as if someone had filed it with a knife . You go to say good morning to your family but instead of that deep voice you’re used to it’s high and feminine . “ doesn’t she look beautiful “ your mum would say to your dad . And you’d stand there in confusion because why are they calling you she ? You look down and see you chest is no longer flat but covered in two lumps of fat . Suddenly , you realise you’re trapped . You go out into the world and everyone assumes you’re a female , everyone’s calling you she and her but you know it’s not right , you know you’re a man beneath this body. However , to return to your former self you’re going to have to go through years of therapy and waiting . Years of people not believing you . Years of people telling you you’re ill, that you’re a girl and that’s that . But even then , when you finally reach the end of your transition to who you truly know you are , you still won’t be the full man to everyone else as you are to yourself . That’s what trans feels like .

Even though I’m pre- hormones I pass as a guy in everyday life 99% of the time and even the people who know I’m trans don’t bat an eyelid. When someone misgenders me I feel like I’ve been stabbed in the heart and I pretty much cry for an hour or so . I don’t understand how some people can sit behind their computer screens though and say it’s a result of the liberals and that being trans isn’t real it’s just a mental illness. It’s real - believe me.

On a side note there’s a documentary that features research on the brains of trans men (pre hormones and surgery) and cisgender men . They found that their brains were basically the same in terms of how they are formed and responded to stimuli . There was a huge difference between trans identifying men and cisgender women’s brains showing that it’s biological and not a choice . I will try and find the link .
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Sabertooth
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(Original post by louie123)
don’t understand how some people can sit behind their computer screens though and say it’s a result of the liberals and that being trans isn’t real it’s just a mental illness. It’s real- believe me.

On a side not there’s a documentary that features research on the brains of trans men (pre hormones and surgery) and cisgender men . They found that their brains were basically the same in terms of how they are formed and responded to stimuli . There was a huge difference between trans identifying men and cisgender women’s brains showing that it’s biological and not a choice . I will try and find the link .
To be fair, mental illness is real ..... :unsure:
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louie123
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(Original post by Sabertooth)
To be fair, mental illness is real ..... :unsure:
I think you’re missing the point here.
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dandiprat
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Okay, so in the process of explaining this, I went off on a huge tangent. It’s pretty complicated and I don’t fully understand it myself, even as a trans person. It isn’t as though a gender fairy confirms your suspicions any day—it’s just a personal and professional thumbs up, and at the start you just go on hoping you’ve got it figured. Trust me though, no one I have known personally to have “thought” they were transgender have gone any further than cutting their hair, and trying out a new name and pronouns, before realising they were wrong.

Anyway, gender dysphoria is essentially an immense sense of detestation or lack of comfort towards features that you associate with your biological sex or the notion of it. By notion, I mean, I would come over with a disorienting level of disassociation just at the idea of being a “woman” one day. I couldn’t actually picture a future for myself as a woman. As a man? Absolutely. I had plenty ideas of what I would be as a man, from a very young age too, but a woman? Nothing. I was just living every day out as a girl because I had to; and, when I was less aware of what was wrong, that idea alone (of being a woman in the future) drove me to try and end myself a few times.

I’ve always described the sensation of my gender dysphoria as what you feel when you step off the stairs and suddenly get that shock as though you’ve missed a step. Like, literally, that is representative of the feeling I get when I am uncomfortable with my sexual features/sexual appearance—on repeat, for hours or days or weeks at a time. Either that, or severe paranoia.

But some people are affected more than others, and gender dysphoria can describe both dissatisfaction with your gender as a whole or specific sex-identifying features. While it varies for everyone, there needs to be some level of dysphoria for someone to be trans (I’m sorry to anyone who is trans and doesn’t believe this—I won’t argue over it but this is my opinion). Again, I refer to myself as an example: feeling girly, my hips, feminine shaped face and feminine figure are my main subjects of dysphoria. These are long term problems and, while HRT has helped immensely, I still have to work very hard to alleviate the bad feelings I get from carrying those features. Meanwhile, a friend of mine is still left dysphoric by their chest, height and overall sexual femininity (anything that outwardly makes them identifiable as female).

Furthermore, like previously insinuated, gender dysphoria carries with it a great deal of fear towards the future throughout a person’s life. Most trans people can identify vivid memories from childhood, around issues both present and foreseen at the time. They were not natural anxieties. It isn’t general uncertainty towards whether or not I would be attractive as a teenager, or whether I would hit puberty at the same time as everyone else; it was crippling jealousy towards people (males... I literally hated all men because I was so furious I couldn’t be them lmao) who were developing into something I longed to embody, and incapacitating dread towards the idea of developing a chest, or how tall I would be, or if my hips were going to be really broad, or whether I would be one of the unlucky few to start periods early (not just because of the unpleasantness of it, just because it acted as a confirmation of your sex and as a reaffirming experience of a gender you do not feel at ease with).

Now, I am quite conservative and biological with my views towards transgender people, so don’t take what I say as the right word because if you say it to the wrong person they’ll likely flip their lid:

I can change my gender but NOT my sex. I can change how I look, and feel at ease knowing no one will ever see me out in public and think “that’s a woman”. All I want is respect from others to refer to me with he/him pronouns, and understand I wish to be seen and known as a man. Like I say, it isn’t like you could spot me on the street or at work as a trans guy; I am completely and 100% stealth at this point in my life.

However, you can call me female (not literally—it would probably be pretty irrelevant to blurt out at any time) because you are correct, and it is important for it to be recognised. I am still female, that doesn’t change: I am still more at risk of certain illnesses/diseases because of my sex (as are trans woman as males), I still have certain physical disadvantages because of my sex, I still have my original sexual organs and they must be looked after, and so on.

Why is it worth letting and accepting a trans person doing what they need to do though, even if you don’t understand it? Because right now, transition is all we have to sort ourselves out. Previous to HRT, my life was crumbling. My problems had been persistent since the age of 6 and only got worse with age. Repressed feelings rolled out into psychosis, anxiety, disassociation, panic attacks, severe (and once deemed chronic) manic depression, a ruined education, wasted teenage years and anti-social behaviour—and I was just left battling with the concept of life and death every day. You know, when you hate everything about yourself, because for some reason your head is rejecting your sex and assigned gender, suicide frequently feels like a good way out of it. When I look back at that past though, that was little under three years ago, and see where I am now... you would barely connect my pre-transition self to my current self. We are completely different people, and when you get to witness the benefits of the only real treatment we have firsthand, it is very evident it is the right thing for a trans person. I mean, everyone can have their own opinion, but I would probably have turned to drugs, been institutionalised, imprisoned or dead by now if I didn’t have the support from my parents. If you would have preferred that for myself, that’s chill. At least think hard about it though.

Personally, I would hit up every scientist to identify the issue (a gene or something, just find it) and then pull together a cure for gender dysphoria. Did I want to have to transition? Nah. Do I want this tedious task of constantly checking up on my health for the sake of being happier? Nah. Did I enjoy growing up my first 16 years with every conscious moment being memorably miserable? Nah. Do I want other trans people to go through life feeling totally crap? Nah. Would I have preferred some drug that could have allowed me to be happy as a woman and never have to deal with this shite? Yeah boi.

So yeah, like I say, this spiralled off into a huge tangent, but hopefully something in there will be useful. Just feel lucky you don’t understand gender dysphoria because it probably means you have never had it and it’s **** and you don’t wanna.
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Sabertooth
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(Original post by louie123)
I think you’re missing the point here.
So explain it to me how mental illness isn't real.
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Manitude
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(Original post by TrueBruce)
I understand that one could feel that they have more masculine or feminine traits and prefer things that society would not deem appropriate for their sex, but I do not understand how these are relevant to your sex.
If you want to dress and act the way that society would expect from the opposite sex, do you really need to be accepted by society as someone of the opposite sex? If a boy likes to wear dresses and wants to be called Christine does it mean he is in fact a girl and was minsgendered at birth?

Forgive me if I am being ignorant, but I don't know any trans people so I struggle to understand the concept of gender dysphoria.
Well for one, you're conflating sex and gender. These are two different concepts. I don't claim to be an expert and don't speak from personal experience, but a working definition for me is that sex is what a geneticist could determine if they had a sample of your DNA and nothing else, whereas gender is a social spectrum upon which the majority of people fall at either end ("purely male" and "purely female", or concepts to this effect) and, in the past, this could be neatly aligned to apparent sex in Western cultures.

I say 'apparent' as my understanding is such that the definition of biological sex in nature is pretty messy and definitely is not a binary of "male" and "female".

As for your question about should society accept it if "a man" wear a dress and wants to be called Christine, why shouldn't we? In this case it does the rest of us no harm to respect the wishes of other people. Sure, my friend Steve might look like a Dave, but it would be quite rude of me to insist that he actually is called Dave. The same thing applies to gender. Sure, someone may look one way but if they tell you otherwise then it's a bit of a **** move to insist they are wrong. And yes, sometimes one will slip up and use the wrong name/pronoun but if it's a genuine mistake it's alright, I think. When you deliberately do it, then it really just makes you a ****.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by Bill Nye)
Well it's not, but I doubt anything will change your view.
Well it is. The second half of that sentence is such a cop out; ‘I don’t have any good evidence for my belief so I’ll just say you’re really closed minded so I can avoid having to provide any’

(Original post by Bill Nye)
Gender dysphoria is difficult to explain, but so bad for people who experience it...

copied from the NHS website because I just cannot explain it:

This mismatch between sex and gender identity can lead to distressing and uncomfortable feelings that are called gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate. It's not a mental illness.
Some people with gender dysphoria have a strong and persistent desire to live according to their gender identity, rather than their biological sex. These people are sometimes called transsexual or trans people. Some trans people have treatment to make their physical appearance more consistent with their gender identity.

You just feel desperate to live life as another gender, and for people to see you that way. You hate the parts of your body that define you as either having a male or female sex. You are desperate to get rid of them, and will do as much as you can to hide them etc.

Say you were a boy, imagine yourself as the same person, but in a female body. You would want it to change, and overtime that feeling just gets worse and worse and worse. It can get to the point where people would rather die than live life as the gender you are assigned.


I personally don't think its about how masculine / feminine you present, but how masculine/feminine you feel, and how you want people to perceive you (i.e. as a male, female or whatever else you are). How you present can just help people perceive you in the way you want, but doesn't define your gender.


A closeted fTm who presents as female (as they are closeted) still identifies as male, even if they aren't wearing mens clothes etc

Lots of people have a skewed view of themselves or the world but we don’t play along with their fantasy and try and ostracise anyone who doesn’t want to.
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Dheorl
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(Original post by louie123)
I think you’re missing the point here.
I would have said the point where you seem to insinuate mental illnesses aren't real is a pretty hard one to miss...
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JackWilko3101
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They never said that mental illnesses weren’t real, they said that being trans isn’t a mental illness. Use your brain ffs
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username521617
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(Original post by ambershell27)
I get you to some degree. How can we abolish gender stereotypes but at same time have a trans community? I'm supportive of basically doing whatever the frick you want as long as it doesn't physically affect others but I also want to understand more.
That's exactly the logical contradiction.

On the one hand we have people saying gender is entirely a social construct, where people are only boys and girls who like masculine and feminine things because they are socialised that way, but on the other hand trans advocates are saying we are be born with innate differences that make us feel like boys or girls. So which is it? It doesn't make any sense.
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username2752874
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(Original post by TrueBruce)
I understand that one could feel that they have more masculine or feminine traits and prefer things that society would not deem appropriate for their sex, but I do not understand how these are relevant to your sex.
If you want to dress and act the way that society would expect from the opposite sex, do you really need to be accepted by society as someone of the opposite sex? If a boy likes to wear dresses and wants to be called Christine does it mean he is in fact a girl and was minsgendered at birth?

Forgive me if I am being ignorant, but I don't know any trans people so I struggle to understand the concept of gender dysphoria.
Having a **** or a vagina helps
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username3692758
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Being trans is nothing to do with stereotypes.
It's an overpowering hatred of your body.

There will be some who justify sticking their kids on crappy puberty blockers with stereotypes, but that's just plain wrong and isn't representative of most trans people.
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yudothis
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(Original post by Bill Nye)
Well it's not, but I doubt anything will change your view.
Actually, it is. Gender dysphoria is a condition that affects a very small amount of people. The current trans agenda is vastly different from gender dysphoria. It is riddled with homophobia (why pray the gay away when you can cut off penises and take hormones) and especially lesbophobia (lesbians being told they must enjoy **** from 'lesbian transwomen') and misogyny.

LGB needs to split from T before it's too late. T is the latest liberal fad, with virtue signalling morons having found another cause to silence others.
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