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What are your thoughts on abortion?

I personally think pro choice

1-Women have the right to choose what they do with there body.
2-At the legal abortion period, a foetus is a cluster of cells with no emotion or knowledge of its existence.
3-If a baby is born into a family with no means of caring for the child, it may be put into care homes and be at a higher risk of mental health issues and abuse.
4-Again, Women’s Rights
5-What if a baby is conceived through rape? Do you expect a woman to raise a child who, whenever she looks at them, is reminded of that time when she was forced to do something against her will, and then again when forced to have an unloved child.
6-Also, quick fact, in the Republic of Ireland, because abortion is completely illegal, there are women who have to carry a dead foetus around for years after pregnancy complications. Yeah.

So that some of why abortion is a choice, and should always be a choice.
(edited 6 years ago)

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The right term you are looking for is 'pro-choice'. These are Americanisms we could do without. In any case, I agree with you. In fact, I reckon we should remove the 24 week limit entirely.
My view is that the central test for deciding whether abortion should be allowed is when can the rights of the fetus override the rights of the mother.

When answering that question I first think we need to look at the rights in question, in this case we see that we are dealing with the right to future life or (future bodily autonomy) and the mother's bodily autonomy. Clearly it is a case of two conflicting rights on the same thing. Next we have to see when would the being gain rights that could outweigh that of an existing being. I think that clearly just being an animal is insufficient, as when there is a conflict between animal and human rights, the human prevails.

So the central question is when does the being transcend from merely being an animal into a human, I think that the most important feature of a human that distinguishes us from animals is consciousness, so when a fetus first gains aspects of consciousness is 5 months post conception. So you could given that view that all abortions are valid. Also the argument of post-conception killing is irrelevant, as post-conception there is no conflict so there is no rational on killing/infringing on the babies rights.

I personally don't support this fully, as I believe that humans life for the future and for their future experiences and decisions, so I believe the standard should be likely to become conscious, given the technology that is developing this would mean that the window for abortions given my standard would become narrower and narrower as our society progresses. Basically I think that it is justifiable to deny the women a smaller set of decisions to allow the potential human to be allowed a larger set of decisions.

In the case of a danger to the mother, obviously the right of the mother would be larger that the fetus and can be justified using self-defense and in some circumstances lesser evil necessity. For rape and incest, I think that in cases were mental illness may be caused or significant mental harm then self-defense can be raised, but most women won't qualify, which is unfortunate for the women but we do have to remember there is a being that most likely will have future experiences.

The argument that the child will have a bad life is weird and some would say insulting. Ask a kid in an orphanage whether they would rather not be alive than alive. I think that they would say they would prefer to be alive. The premise of your argument only works if a significant majority experience such a life that they would rather not be alive. Otherwise there is no empirical evidence to support such an argument.
Reply 3
I am pro-life.

Abortion is an absolutely horrific process performed with a vacuum, tearing the child's head and limbs off the body. Anyone willing to support that is a terrible human being. Also, no matter how many weeks, a child is a child with a different set of DNA to the parents. Life starts at conception. No valid argument against it.

What you said about 'complications' is the common, weak argument used by the liberals. Only 0.01% of all abortions are performed because of a risk to either the mother or the child.
Reply 4
We should all be aborted.
Conceited said ...."I agree with you. In fact, I reckon we should remove the 24 week limit entirely. "



I was talking to a feminist the other week that that thought the woman should have the right to abort the child right up to the day of the birth.
Would you go that far?
Humans are always messing with nature, please dont abort the baby no matter what the reason. Mother nature gives and you have no right to kill because you are just a vessel to bring a life into the world and humans have no right to choose who lives and who does not thats the greatest middle finger to mother nature, humans arent the centre of the universe,....we really arent the smartest beings alive...we are not gods.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Fhu
I am pro-life.

Abortion is an absolutely horrific process performed with a vacuum, tearing the child's head and limbs off the body. Anyone willing to support that is a terrible human being. Also, no matter how many weeks, a child is a child with a different set of DNA to the parents. Life starts at conception. No valid argument against it.

What you said about 'complications' is the common, weak argument used by the liberals. Only 0.01% of all abortions are performed because of a risk to either the mother or the child.


Please don’t spew your ignorant, imbecilic and downright disgusting religious ******** here.
No, that is not how abortions occur. There are two methods and even vacuum doesn’t ‘tear the child’s head and limbs off the body’. Using England and Wales 2014 data 2% of abortion’s were due to risk of the child being handicapped, and a further 0.01% due to risks to the mother. The vast majority were due to mental risk of the mother and were performed at under 12 weeks, with the rest being performed after. (While this is generally used as a vague reason to get an abortion on the NHS that does not mean that a large number of those were likely legitimate).

You’re not even taking into account that at such early stages the baby to my knowledge isn’t even conscious or able to feel pain to any great degree.

Unless you come back with a logical, well-thought out argument that doesn’t rely on your pathetic religious biases please stay away.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/433437/2014_Commentary__5_.pdf
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Just my opinion
Conceited said ...."I agree with you. In fact, I reckon we should remove the 24 week limit entirely. "



I was talking to a feminist the other week that that thought the woman should have the right to abort the child right up to the day of the birth.
Would you go that far?


Yes.
In all honesty, I would say that I'm still very much undecided on this matter. What I think is truly interesting, though, is that most people who profess to be pro-choice are (presumably) also likely to profess to live their life by the golden rule of 'treat others as you would wish to be treated'/'how would you like it if...?' when it comes to a wide variety of other moral issues that have an impact upon them personally, yet this rule is completely overlooked when it comes to the question of abortion. It's inconsistent is all I'm saying.
"I was talking to a feminist the other week that that thought the woman should have the right to abort the child right up to the day of the birth.
Would you go that far?"

Original post by Conceited
Yes.


I was shocked when she said this and assumed that this opinion was rare and yet I come across you here saying the same thing. Maybe it is a lot more common than I assumed. Can I ask everybody else posting here do you agree with abortion up to the day of birth?
I'm also prochoice, I think about some of the people I know/know of and how difficult their lives are, and how their parents can't look after them properly and that if they had been aborted, they wouldn't have had to suffer like the way they do now.

Like my boyfriend's friend is dead now and his life was just awful. The social services were constantly involved and he ended up in jail a few times. If his mum had an abortion, he wouldn't have had to suffer the way he did because he just wouldn't have existed. I don't think adoption is the best either, unless the child is a baby or a toddler, they tend to stay in the system forever.
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 12
I think the weeks limit should be lowered to 22 or so on the basis that advancements in medical care now mean babies born prematurely at 24 weeks can survive. However I am totally pro-choice.
Original post by Just my opinion
"I was talking to a feminist the other week that that thought the woman should have the right to abort the child right up to the day of the birth.
Would you go that far?"



I was shocked when she said this and assumed that this opinion was rare and yet I come across you here saying the same thing. Maybe it is a lot more common than I assumed. Can I ask everybody else posting here do you agree with abortion up to the day of birth?

I personally don't like the idea of it, unless the fetus is severely disabled, or giving birth will kill the mother. At that late stage of pregnancy, the fetus is completely fully formed and can survive on its own, so can feel pain etc. I would question why the woman wasn't able to have an abortion earlier on, when the fetus was undeveloped and not viable. I agree with the current cut-off point of 24 weeks.
Big fan of abortion, need many, many more of them.
Not really made my mind up yet, I am torn between thinking it is a form of murder (that is still justifiable in some cases) or that it is not a form of murder
This is a topic I’ve had my position on changed many times before coming to a final conclusion. As a scientist myself people do not get to me with the whole it has life argument because every bundle of cells does and its progeny and so on and so forth however it’s not quite the same, I think what people are referring to are the downstream human characteristics that cellular group will go on to elicit in the future.

Anyway to cut a long story short I’m pro-life.

No matter who says anything about it. Nobody has the emotional coping mechanisms in place to remove life from within themselves without detrimental downstream effects which are far greater than that of the possibility of any mental health issues given from care homes and possible multiple parent adolescent stages. Not to mention the positively skewed mental health data anyway thanks to campaigns allowing people to talk about it. They are great things and I completely agree but the data is skewed because of the rush of people now willing to talk about their issues.

As for babies of rape, why commit a second psychological trauma? A mother who has been raped will be in the process of grieving and dealing with her issues already and regardless she will begin growing this child which she now has to choose to kill or not to kill? There is absolutely no need to induce further emotional distress at this stage and it is much safer to slow the child to be born and placed into care or adopted. This being said I do believe there should be some sort of programme allowing the mother to opt out of future contact with the child if necessary depending on how she feels about the process AFTER THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF TIME given to her to allow emotional processes to fully work through!
Personally even though I am a liberal I do not support abortion, one of the few things I can't support
I’m pro abortion only on some occasions.
What if the woman was raped? What if the child is disabled and parents have not got the right means to look after them and will need constant 24/7 care until they die? Why give them a wild of misery?
Until you are in that position you have no right to judge.
My personal opinion doesn’t matter. I would make choices relevant to me. Although it doesn’t apply now
I do believe that the limit should be decreased.
16 weeks is plenty.

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