2) Walking by Faith (Going in to the Wilderness !!!)

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Drummond
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I know a man, an Ephraimite, who was completely disillusioned with himself and with this world.

So he went to the top of a hill one day and there God found him. God let him know that He was real and was really here, with us, after all. But what this man did not know was that God knew all the way along in this man's life, that he would come to the top of that hill on that day and find Him.

This man was completely flabbergasted, because he didn't believe in God before, indeed, he thought that people who believed in God needed their heads examined.

Afterwards, this man went and got God's word, a King James Bible, to see what it said. Knowing that we have a God, why would this man want to learn anything else, other than what God has to say?

So this man realised that his job and career was all vanity because it was consuming time in which he could be learning from God by reading God's word. All that mattered to him was understanding his God's word. Because now he found that he had a God, he was not going to let go of his God, for all the tea in China.

Now this man had some gold and silver coins hidden away because he understood there was economic turmoil on the horizon. He even had lots of food and water put aside for when this happened. He felt that he was prepared.

But from reading God's word he learned that this was not what he was supposed to be doing at all. So he listened to God and exchanged his gold for knowledge. He sold much of his gold bit by bit to fund his life while he learned about God's word. He listened to what others had to say about God's word and some of it was very helpful, and some of it was not so. But God was leading this man, the way that God wanted him to go, without this man knowing.

Need cuppa. To be continued....
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Drummond
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.....This man came to the understanding that if he was in God's creation, then God owned everything in the creation anyway, because it was His creation, all the land, all the homes, all the resources, all the money, even down to every last electronic digit and even all the people within the creation.

So this man was reading and listening to what God was telling him do, that God wanted him to sell all that he had and follow Him. So this man thought to himself, why do i need to fear this world anymore and all the systems of this world, if God is watching over me and is really here? God was taking the world from this man, so this man decided to give it up the world in equal measure. So he sold all that he had remaining and packed a rucksack full of dog food for his dog (because he wasn't yet strong in faith), a tent, a sleeping bag, a few other bits and bobs and a King James Bible and he returned to the very same hill where God found him.

Now this man had no life to return to, no family to speak of, so he was committed. There would be no going back. He camped on this hill and he prayed to God and told God that he would not beg this world and for God to help him from now onwards. The next morning he went to walk off this hill but he could not leave for some reason and it was because he still had thirty pounds in his pocket. He then threw the last money to the wind and set off heading for Land's End, seeking to understand God's will, with all his heart.

This man did not have food or money and he wasn't prepared to ask others for food or for money, he then realised that he needed to ask God each day for food and water and for a place to pitch his tent at the end of each day. What he was actually doing, was the Lord's prayer, but he wasn't doing it in any order because he was always talking with God and these things which he needed each day came up in the conversation. You see, what is the point of asking God for food if you have food in the cupboard? If you have food then you don't need to ask God for food because you already have it and if you do ask Him for food when you already have it, He might think that you are a right proper fool. This is why chanting the Lord's prayer word for word is foolishness with God unless you live by faith, but if you live by faith then you will ask for these things naturally without thinking about the Lord's prayer. So therefore the Lord's prayer is an 'example' of a prayer of faith and not a prayer of works. God wants to see faith first, then works, not works without faith..............
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by Drummond)
God wants to see faith first, then works, not works without faith..............


Yep it's a fundamental Christian principle that God requires faith rather than him proving himself.

Hebrews 11:6
"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Unfortunately your little story began:

"So he went to the top of a hill one day and there God found him. God let him know that He was real and was really here, with us, after all"

The story is thus hugely flawed imo and only vain ego can be responsible for the man thinking he is somehow special and chosen such that God did not require any faith or belief from him and instead just chose to pop up and say "Hi, look, I am real"

A bit silly
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username2763536
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Which god?

There have been thousands.Please be more specific.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by Robby2312)
Which god?

There have been thousands.Please be more specific.
Yes I agree, there are/were many as the Bible clearly states.

In this particular case we are talking about "Drummond's God" whoever or whatever that is. Clearly not the God of the Bible who wanted people to have no other God but himself.
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Drummond
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)

Yep it's a fundamental Christian principle that God requires faith rather than him proving himself.

Hebrews 11:6
"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Unfortunately your little story began:

"So he went to the top of a hill one day and there God found him. God let him know that He was real and was really here, with us, after all"

The story is thus hugely flawed imo and only vain ego can be responsible for the man thinking he is somehow special and chosen such that God did not require any faith or belief from him and instead just chose to pop up and say "Hi, look, I am real"

A bit silly
Listen mate,

How do you find God? By believing in His word. So what hinders us from believing in His word? Because the whole world is geared toward us not believing and it has done this by engineering alternative false beliefs to entrap us. It is a captivity of the mind. We have been born in to a lie. So how do we break out of this lie? We have to break the world apart. We have to question everything and we can only do this is we have the Spirit of truth, if we want to know the real truth of this world.

The internet is here for a reason, so we don't have to go and sit in archives and libraries to do research. Everyone can be a researcher now, not a select few. We have got all the information we need at the touch of a few buttons. Why do you think there are so many people who are declaring, we have not been told the truth about 9/11, or we have not been told the truth about the holocaust, or why are these planes spraying heavy metals in to the sky, or evolution is a proven hoax and so are dinosaurs, or the earth is not a spinning oblate spheroid and there is no space or universe?

What makes a person stop and listen and check whether there is any truth to what these people are saying, because these people are not extremists, they are normal people like you and i. Its no coincidence that both sides of the story are now available to all. Whether one chooses to listen to the other side is an individual choice. But how can we find God unless we break apart, in our minds, the barriers which restrict us from finding God? If you lose trust with the world then you are losing trust with man and if we do not have man and the world to trust in, then that only leaves God to trust in. Its a no brainer.

God is unwinding this creation at alarming speed and God is correcting certain things along the way. God is going back to Eden, right back to the beginning and He is not looking back. And when He gets there He is going to utterly consume this creation, because it has fallen and then He will begin another.

Everyone is walking toward this big broad gate at the moment, but some have got this sense, that something is not quite right. So they have stopped, still facing the big broad gate and they are checking things over again, seeing if everything that they have been told to believe in, is really actually true. And some of these people that have stopped, have realised that the direction that they are travelling in, is not the truth at all and that actually, God is the truth. So these people are doing an about turn and are now walking in the opposite direction to everybody else. And what they are doing is walking in God's shadow, back toward Eden because at Eden there is a straight, much narrower gate. But they can not walk this walk unless they know God is there with them, because the walk is too hard, because the world is extremely difficult to give up alone without God.

So these people which are following God back to Eden and the straight gate are shouting at the people and shaking the people which are going the other way to them and which are still walking toward the broad gate and they are saying, ''Don't go that way man, because that way leads to eternal destruction, stop, look and listen and check things out for yourself man and then come this more difficult way with God and us because it leads to eternal life.''

We live in prophesy and you have no idea how near we are to the end of this prophesy.

There is no truth in this world apart from God and God's word and how we have got God's word !!!
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Drummond
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(Original post by Robby2312)
Which god?

There have been thousands.Please be more specific.
There is only one true God, the God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, who created the heavens and everything therein, who created the earth and everything therein and who created the waters and the fountains of waters and everything therein. You should try and get to know Him and then you might be fortunate enough to meet Him one day and realise that He really is - Top Drawer.
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username2763536
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(Original post by Drummond)
There is only one true God, the God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, who created the heavens and everything therein, who created the earth and everything therein and who created the waters and the fountains of waters and everything therein. You should try and get to know Him and then you might be fortunate enough to meet Him one day and realise that He really is - Top Drawer.
So you say. In reality there is just as much evidence for your god as there is for any other god whos ever been worshipped.How do I know that I won't be meeting zeus for example?
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Drummond
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(Original post by Robby2312)
So you say. In reality there is just as much evidence for your god as there is for any other god whos ever been worshipped.How do I know that I won't be meeting zeus for example?
Ah man, if you ever hear about tickets being sold for people worshipping zeus, get me one please, i could do with a chuckle.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by Drummond)
How do you find God? By believing in His word.
Drummond you are just all over the place. You posted a story about a person who didn't believe in God at all, who God just arbitrarily revealed himself to. This contradicts everything you've said about how to find God, and the need for faith. You're running yourself in absolute circles, getting utterly confused and spinning ever more embellished tails to try and dig yourself out of it.

We have minds, we have intelligence, we have rationality. Whatever arguments you want to put up, at the very least need to be coherent and consistent. Currently yours are neither of these things. I don't say this to disparage you, but to simply make you aware that you come across as completely befuddled and irrational which is presumably not the effect you are looking to achieve.


(Original post by Drummond)
The internet is here for a reason, so we don't have to go and sit in archives and libraries to do research. Everyone can be a researcher now, not a select few. We have got all the information we need at the touch of a few buttons. Why do you think there are so many people who are declaring, we have not been told the truth about 9/11, or we have not been told the truth about the holocaust, or why are these planes spraying heavy metals in to the sky, or evolution is a proven hoax and so are dinosaurs, or the earth is not a spinning oblate spheroid and there is no space or universe?
Much of the conspiracies are true. We most certainly are not being told the truth. NASA certainly covered something up in 1969 regarding the Lunar mission, 911 was clearly a professional demolition and not perpetrated by scarf wearing Arabs living in caves and so on.
What you have to understand is that the Bible we have been given is equally not the complete set of works. It has been heavily edited and censored with lots of books and Gospels omitted. That has been done for a reason, to keep the truth from the masses in order to peddle religion and control people.

Much of the stuff you trot out is nothing more that the key sound bites that their conditioning instils in people. It's a self-reinforcing set of programming. It pressures people to put aside thinking and rationality and to just pretend in something else and once enough people do that, people gain confidence from seeing and hearing so many other people do likewise.

It's the same for kids at Christmas. They think that Santa really exists because everything around them seems to support that view, all of the Santa imagery in shops, books, on the TV. The fact that all parents talk about Santa and so too other children. It's a self-reinforcing belief system and is HIGHLY effective. That is of course, until someone points out the truth that it is all complete nonsense! Then kids, who are slightly older now, realise they look like right t*ats and quickly let go of the "Santa" myth.

What is fascinating to witness is that adults, having lived through that Santa cycle in their youth and been duped, are now failing to see that in their older years, it has happened all over again, with religion. They've been asked to believe in fantasies, which are reinforced all around them and they have given themselves up to it, thereby perpetuating the myths.


(Original post by Drummond)
But how can we find God unless we break apart, in our minds, the barriers which restrict us from finding God?
Can you not see how your mind has already been completely steered in a singular direction by those who have conditioned you?

It is quite right that we take time out to think about life's questions:

- Who am I?
- What am I?
- What makes me, me?
- Why am I here?
- Is there anything beyond what I perceive as "death"?
- Is death really death?

The problem here is that instead of objectively meditating on those issues and thinking about yourself and the universe, you have already allowed your mind to be focussed entirely on this issue of "God" and the Bible.

It's like trying to understand and make sense of the world of vegetables and fruits and some person having convinced you that the singular and most important question is "do carrots exist?"

This is programming, brainwashing, conditioning.

We should NOT be asking "Does God exist?"

That is a false line of enquiry that has been planted in our minds to limit our thinking and distract us from the real and proper lines of enquiry.

Everything else in your post stems from that singular conditioning that limits your thinking and sees you framing absolutely everything in terms of this "God".

You are in chains. Chains you have voluntarily allowed yourself to be shackled with. And you are dying, and the clock is ticking. You will spend your life thinking and puzzling over these singular questions that others have implanted in your brain instead of being open and honest with yourself and asking the "right" questions.

Time is precious. If you want to hold onto your existing form, and not "die" as such (i.e. be recycled) then you have to put aside the nice cosy Santa like myths that have been handed to you and start objectively looking at the evidence and information that is out there.

I have been honest with you when I have told you that the Bible, Quran, Bhagavad Gita and Taoism and Rosicrucianism and others are all telling you about the Stone. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "God" or religion or faith. It's information there in black and white, hidden allegorically and cryptically in all of these works. Vital information, absolutely crucial information. Undeniably there.

But your mind is steered down a singular track to the detriment of all other rational enquiry.

In the words of Morpheus

"Free Your Mind!"
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Drummond
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Drummond you are just all over the place. You posted a story about a person who didn't believe in God at all, who God just arbitrarily revealed himself to. This contradicts everything you've said about how to find God, and the need for faith. You're running yourself in absolute circles, getting utterly confused and spinning ever more embellished tails to try and dig yourself out of it.

We have minds, we have intelligence, we have rationality. Whatever arguments you want to put up, at the very least need to be coherent and consistent. Currently yours are neither of these things. I don't say this to disparage you, but to simply make you aware that you come across as completely befuddled and irrational which is presumably not the effect you are looking to achieve.




Much of the conspiracies are true. We most certainly are not being told the truth. NASA certainly covered something up in 1969 regarding the Lunar mission, 911 was clearly a professional demolition and not perpetrated by scarf wearing Arabs living in caves and so on.
What you have to understand is that the Bible we have been given is equally not the complete set of works. It has been heavily edited and censored with lots of books and Gospels omitted. That has been done for a reason, to keep the truth from the masses in order to peddle religion and control people.

Much of the stuff you trot out is nothing more that the key sound bites that their conditioning instils in people. It's a self-reinforcing set of programming. It pressures people to put aside thinking and rationality and to just pretend in something else and once enough people do that, people gain confidence from seeing and hearing so many other people do likewise.

It's the same for kids at Christmas. They think that Santa really exists because everything around them seems to support that view, all of the Santa imagery in shops, books, on the TV. The fact that all parents talk about Santa and so too other children. It's a self-reinforcing belief system and is HIGHLY effective. That is of course, until someone points out the truth that it is all complete nonsense! Then kids, who are slightly older now, realise they look like right t*ats and quickly let go of the "Santa" myth.

What is fascinating to witness is that adults, having lived through that Santa cycle in their youth and been duped, are now failing to see that in their older years, it has happened all over again, with religion. They've been asked to believe in fantasies, which are reinforced all around them and they have given themselves up to it, thereby perpetuating the myths.




Can you not see how your mind has already been completely steered in a singular direction by those who have conditioned you?

It is quite right that we take time out to think about life's questions:

- Who am I?
- What am I?
- What makes me, me?
- Why am I here?
- Is there anything beyond what I perceive as "death"?
- Is death really death?

The problem here is that instead of objectively meditating on those issues and thinking about yourself and the universe, you have already allowed your mind to be focussed entirely on this issue of "God" and the Bible.

It's like trying to understand and make sense of the world of vegetables and fruits and some person having convinced you that the singular and most important question is "do carrots exist?"

This is programming, brainwashing, conditioning.

We should NOT be asking "Does God exist?"

That is a false line of enquiry that has been planted in our minds to limit our thinking and distract us from the real and proper lines of enquiry.

Everything else in your post stems from that singular conditioning that limits your thinking and sees you framing absolutely everything in terms of this "God".

You are in chains. Chains you have voluntarily allowed yourself to be shackled with. And you are dying, and the clock is ticking. You will spend your life thinking and puzzling over these singular questions that others have implanted in your brain instead of being open and honest with yourself and asking the "right" questions.

Time is precious. If you want to hold onto your existing form, and not "die" as such (i.e. be recycled) then you have to put aside the nice cosy Santa like myths that have been handed to you and start objectively looking at the evidence and information that is out there.

I have been honest with you when I have told you that the Bible, Quran, Bhagavad Gita and Taoism and Rosicrucianism and others are all telling you about the Stone. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "God" or religion or faith. It's information there in black and white, hidden allegorically and cryptically in all of these works. Vital information, absolutely crucial information. Undeniably there.

But your mind is steered down a singular track to the detriment of all other rational enquiry.

In the words of Morpheus

"Free Your Mind!"
Paul was a Pharisee, who was well versed in the scriptures. Did Paul have faith before God intercepted him on the road to Damascus, or after?
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by Drummond)
Paul was a Pharisee, who was well versed in the scriptures. Did Paul have faith before God intercepted him on the road to Damascus, or after?
The posing of that question and others like it demonstrates adequately how your mind is singularly steered down one line of thinking. You're still talking about stories in the Bible and God.

I'm trying to tell you to Empty Your Cup.

Put aside your notions of the Bible and God.

Have the courage to do so, to accept that those are things that other humans put before you and which have chained your mind before you ever became old enough to start thinking about life's great questions.

Ask yourself,

What makes me, me?

What are the perceptible aspects of me as a person?

What do I actually know at this point? (about me?)

Don't think in terms of your conditioning. That brainwashing will immediately fire back sound bite answers like "you are body, spirit and soul"

Look around you. Observe Nature. How does she operate?

Does anything actually "die" in Nature?

What are the forces that drive Nature? What things are needed for Nature to be able to operate at all? The Sun, the Moon, electromagnetism, gravity, the elements etc
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username2763536
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(Original post by Drummond)
Ah man, if you ever hear about tickets being sold for people worshipping zeus, get me one please, i could do with a chuckle.
Right so because more people worship your god its the right one? Seems legit.Much better than basing your belief on evidence or anything silly like that.
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Drummond
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I don't need evidence. Evidence is for those who are uncertain in their beliefs.
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Drummond
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
You're still talking about stories in the Bible and God.
That's it, i'm talking about God and His word.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by Drummond)
That's it, i'm talking about God and His word.
Image


How can you fill your cup with wisdom, when it is already filled with preconceived notions?
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TrueBruce
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(Original post by Drummond)
I don't need evidence. Evidence is for those who are uncertain in their beliefs.
This man should go into law.
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Drummond
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........So this man heads for Minehead with his dog, because there is a nice path which begins there and leads all the way to Land's end. Each day which passes he asks God for the things which he needs and strange things begin to happen, he would speak with people about this deceptive world and about God and without asking them for anything, people would want to give him things, the exact things which he was asking God for funnily enough, strange things like head torch batteries or socks. Sometimes people would invite this man in for dinner and a shower and sometimes they would even ask him to stay the night or pitch the tent in the garden and when he departed they would insist on giving him food and money. These people were not necessarily believers like the man was and sometimes they were people on holiday inviting this man to stay in their holiday home. This man began to see how God works through people but he still had his doubts as to whether he was on the right course or not and this could lead him to get very depressed at times. As the weeks and months passed by, he would see people in their homes or people in their cars and he would have covetous thoughts of wanting the same. These doubts and depression could then lead to temptation.

This man realised that three things would repeatedly tempt him.

1) That maybe God would stop supplying him with food and he would starve and this made him fearful and doubtful.

2) That what he was going through was all too much, so that at times, he even considered taking his own life, to see if God would stop him.

3) To try and find a way to return back in to the world again, by finding work and beginning over again.

Then he came to understand, that these were the very same three things which tempted Jesus when Jesus went in to the wilderness and that there was not a silly little man with a trident and horns after all. So no man can ever say to God that ''You do not know what its like to be a man and cope with what a man has to cope with'', because God does know what man is confronted with because He's been there first and coped with it and much more.

This spirit of the air is in us all and it is the same spirit to which this world has fallen to. So this man had to keep on walking and trusting in God and he gained confidence from God, that God had walked this same walk as him, before him and survived. Now this man was on a path to finding out what this nasty little spirit was. Little did he know, but this spirit was gradually departing from him, God was removing it, because the man had faith and when it would finally depart, he would be able to see things, as God sees things...............
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........All the way to Lands End he walked by faith, to the end of the earth and when he got there, God told him to walk around the other end of the earth too, so he walked around the Lizard too and all the way back to the river Tamar. Then he walked up the Tamar and back to the north coast. And he kept walking around an around Cornwall by faith, always with his left foot toward by land and his right foot by the sea, from the sea to the sea, and from the river, even to the ends of the earth. This man would sprain an ankle and have to limp in much pain each day, but he carried on walking, then a tooth would fall out, then the other ankle would sprain, and then another tooth would fall out. God would find him a farm to rest over the winter where he would clean stables and other work for food and a bed, or God would place him to clean the toilets at a campsite for food. The man would get very frustrated and angry toward God for putting him in these places and for everything else that was happening to him. The man thought, why are you letting these things happen to me when i am searching for you with all my heart, why am i being punished? But God always knows better than man and this man was yet to understand why, because what was happening to this man, was that he was dying to himself and to the world. The man was in the world, but he was no longer of the world, because he had made a commitment of faith to God........
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