Trump's call for human space exploration is hugely wasteful and pointless

(edited 6 years ago)

He has a laptop. How skint can he be.

I like the idea, to be fair. It is quantitative easing, injecting billions into the US economy and allowing that hobo to buy another HP laptop, that also allows us to go to space. Win-win.

Reply 2

Kalo7854

15

Original post by FriendlyPenguin

In a country where 1/3rd of the children grow up in poverty, throwing billions away paying old white men to chase asteroids is a monumentally stupid decision - in line with what we've come to expect of Trump.

His idea of some day getting people to Mars is just another populist policy to feed his ego.

It is the same strategy billionaire Elon Musk uses. He exploits the public's romantic obsession with space exploration because he feeds off the adoration of his ignorant fanbase, and wants to sell them Teslas. He doesn't really care about the future of humanity, otherwise he'd donate his money to fight AIDS and malaria.

Humans don't belong in space. Humans have been a cancer upon the Earth, we shouldn't be going to other planets to spread our destruction elsewhere, especially not when we should be using that money to help people.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-trump-space-20170228-story.html

Perhaps inside Trump's little mind, he sees this:

when as president of the US, he should be concentrating on eliminating this:

Much as I'm aware this is a very politically tense issue, I sometimes find that people get annoyed at Trump's decisions not because of the decision itself, but rather because Trump made it. Many countries are persuing projects in the realm of space exploration, and the potential for humanity to expand into space, expecially with the exponential growth of the human population, would be a very helpful, potentially feasible option for the future.

The poverty on earth is horrific, and I hold no doubts that every effort should be made to help people, and give everyone a good chance in life. This should not, however, be the sole and only focus of a government, as funding should be able to fund both a welfare system and research towards the future.

Reply 3

Captain Haddock

18

Agreed. Manned missions to heavenly bodies are seen by many as a stepping stone in a deterministic and inevitable progression toward becoming a multi-planetary species, like levelling up a tech-tree in a video game. There is an attitude that as long as we relentlessly pursue technological advancement for its own sake, man-made ecological disaster can be averted, poverty will be wiped out, and hunger abolished. It's pure sci-fi. Massive technological advancement virtually always brings unintended consequences. It's technology that has caused our planet's problems in the first place. From factories pumping out greenhouse gasses, industrial fishing destroying our oceans and depleting fish stocks, modern agricultural techniques rendering huge amounts of land infertile every year, pesticides that threaten to wipe out bee populations, and so on... Now, I'm no primitivist, honest, but this almost religious faith in technology's ability to rescue us from certain doom, in which manned space flight is held up as the highest of sacraments, seems misplaced to me. Who knows? Maybe technology will have the solution. But it'll be a solution to problems caused by technology to begin with. It's a huge leap of faith.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 4

username521617

17

Original post by Kalo7854

I sometimes find that people get annoyed at Trump's decisions not because of the decision itself, but rather because Trump made it.

Preach.

Funding space exploration is important, more so than people realise. It facilitates technological innovation, creates jobs, and furthers scientific discovery. The money doesn't simply disappear into a void - it's a long term investment.

We could be exploring the solar system and the wider cosmos, and the human race could be advancing further than we could have ever thought possible, but nah, because potholes and poor people.

Anyhow, even if the government doubled NASA's budget, it would be a drop in the ocean compared to what they already spend on welfare and other things. It's really not all that much, taken as a percentage of the federal budget. Let's not pretend as though people are starving because we're sending probes to Jupiter.

Reply 5

gjd800

20

If we are to survive as a species then eventually we will need to colonise space. Unfortunate truth that this sort of exploration will be eventually necessary even if the argument is made that it currently is not.

Reply 6

Laomedeia

21

Let me analyse your post.

Original post by FriendlyPenguin

"This time we will not only plant our flag and leave our footprint,” Trump said, “we will establish a foundation for an eventual mission to Mars and perhaps someday to many worlds beyond.”

In a country where 1/3rd of the children grow up in poverty, throwing billions away paying old white men to chase asteroids is a monumentally stupid decision - in line with what we've come to expect of Trump.

Billions will be wasted anyway. Better waste billions in space than in nukes. Trump really really badly wants to launch a nuclear missile at somebody during his presidency. I feel that this space thing might take his mind off nukes for a bit.

His idea of some day getting people to Mars is just another populist policy to feed his ego. He's been talking up space travel for years, which just shows that in addition to being a terrible politician, he is also a bad businessman - but maybe it doesn't matter to him when it is the taxpayer's money.

I think its a good idea myself. It would be an even better idea to get Trump off this planet.

It is the same strategy billionaire Elon Musk uses. Only stupider.
He exploits the public's romantic obsession with space exploration because he feeds off the adoration of his ignorant fanbase, and wants to sell them Teslas. He doesn't really care about the future of humanity, otherwise he'd donate his money to fight AIDS and malaria.

I agree. He literally became President because he wants to launch nuclear bombs around, or at least threaten to.

Humans don't belong in space. Humans have been a cancer upon the Earth, we shouldn't be going to other planets to spread our destruction elsewhere, especially not when we should be using that money to help people.

Do you even know what a Red Giant is? and also that our Sun will eventually become one? and the destruction involved in that? Try to imagine a big F.O space mutant version of the Trump Administration. Actually that,s called a supernova but the whole red giant thing will kill everything on Earth even if life does survive the USA era.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-trump-space-20170228-story.html

Perhaps inside Trump's little mind, he sees this:

He actually sees this.

when as president of the US, he should be concentrating on eliminating this:

Online begging, I agree with stamping it out. As I do with eliminating actual poverty and providing people the opportunity to earn a decent living.

Reply 7

uberteknik

21

Promising something, getting it through Congress and then maintaining the programme through successive administrations, are three entirely different things.

In the U.S. they call this kind of ambition a pork barrel: utilisation of government funding to please localised workers and administrators and thus secure votes.

This is about laying the foundation for a second term in office. It's a message to NASA and the aerospace/defence sector sub-contractors to vote Trump and secure their funding/careers/jobs/pensions. The Democrats will have to match his 'pledge' with something equally enticing or face a loss of votes. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's the same tactic used by Corbyn's Labour Party at the last election. Promises, promises, promises and not a cat in hells chance of delivering against any of it. But hey, voters live on with two types of hope: Bob Hope and No Hope.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 8

FriendlyPenguin

OP

20

Edit: Sorry, wrong thread

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 9

Napp

22

Is that a hobo with a laptop..?

Reply 10

uberteknik

21

Original post by FriendlyPenguin

Not at all. Trump makes promises solely to make himself look like the Santa Claus of the American people, while Corbyn promises things out of the goodness of his heard. Corbyn's only fault is being too idealistic, but Trump's fault is being ego-centric.

I partially agree - the motivation differs, however the tactics are the same: pull voters in by making vacuous promises appealing to public demand, irrespective of ability to deliver.

The common element for both is a desire to gain or stay in power.

Reply 11

L'étranger123

13

Space missions exist so that once the rich have destroyed the planet they can colonize mars and leave everyone else to die off

Reply 12

username1738683

12

Had Obama suggested that, though...

Reply 13

FriendlyPenguin

OP

20

Edit: Sorry, wrong thread

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 14

the bear

20

Mr Trump should be sent on a probe to Uranus

Reply 15

chazwomaq

18

I agree with the OP but I think it's irrelevant whether Trump or Kennedy or Johnson who make the call.

I don't mind space exploration per se although I'm not convinced it's worth the money. But manned space flights are just insane and pointless. The scientific value of the research done is minimal compared with the costs and risks.

Reply 16

Drummond

13

Original post by FriendlyPenguin

Know where the money went to instead? Education. Jobs. Things that really matter to people.

Phew! Wouldn't want anymore tax dollars spent on searching for the Loch Ness monster in a bath tub would we now?

Reply 17

gummybears

7

Original post by FriendlyPenguin

Obama didn't. He cut the NASA budget as a % of federal spending - during his administration the Constellation program (crewed flight to Mars by 2020) was cut, and NASA relied on private launch vehicles like SpaceX (and, briefly, the Russians).

Know where the money went to instead? Education. Jobs. Things that really matter to people.

You have been misled by statistics. Every President in the last 50 years, with the exception of George Bush Sr, has reduced NASA's budget as a % of federal spending. Space was still one of Obama's biggest investment policies (and that was in the context of economic austerity). In the context of a global recovery, Trump is slashing government spending in many important areas. He's doing it in order to fund huge tax cuts, a needless hike in military spending and frivolous border walls. NASA's budget is included in Trump's cuts. Trump is simply redirecting funds from NASA's environmental research and global warming programmes (which Obama invested heavily in, but Trump doesn't believe in) into space exploration. The total spend is less than Obama committed to NASA.

Trump is a joke of a President but on this particular issue, the person above is totally correct, this is an ad hominem attack. I agree that Trump should be focusing on social policy, inequality, healthcare etc, But he is not spending more money on NASA than his predecessor.

Reply 18

username2763536

15

Original post by FriendlyPenguin

"This time we will not only plant our flag and leave our footprint,” Trump said, “we will establish a foundation for an eventual mission to Mars and perhaps someday to many worlds beyond.”

In a country where 1/3rd of the children grow up in poverty, throwing billions away paying old white men to chase asteroids is a monumentally stupid decision - in line with what we've come to expect of Trump.

His idea of some day getting people to Mars is just another populist policy to feed his ego. He's been talking up space travel for years, which just shows that in addition to being a terrible politician, he is also a bad businessman - but maybe it doesn't matter to him when it is the taxpayer's money.

It is the same strategy billionaire Elon Musk uses. He exploits the public's romantic obsession with space exploration because he feeds off the adoration of his ignorant fanbase, and wants to sell them Teslas. He doesn't really care about the future of humanity, otherwise he'd donate his money to fight AIDS and malaria.

Humans don't belong in space. Humans have been a cancer upon the Earth, we shouldn't be going to other planets to spread our destruction elsewhere, especially not when we should be using that money to help people.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-trump-space-20170228-story.html

Perhaps inside Trump's little mind, he sees this:

when as president of the US, he should be concentrating on eliminating this:

If everyone had your attitude then we would still be living as hunter-gatherers in africa. There are a hundred times more stars than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of the planet earth; each of them have their own planets and moons.There could literally be anything at all out there.There could be a cure for death or cancer.On Jupiter and Saturn it literally rains diamonds.There could be a million other civilisations in this galaxy alone.But nah lets just sit at home and worry about poor people.How boring.Humanity got where it is today by exploring the world.

If you want to cure poverty first then you will literally be waiting forever to do anything at all.But space exploration has lots of benefits not least from spin off technologies.I don't see why space gets all the hate.If you want to complain about wastes of money why not target the massive military industry in America which gets 10 times as much money as NASA.Why are you not complaining about the massive waste of money that was the iraq war or the countless other conflicts America is involved in?