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Why do pre-university students work so hard if this forum seems to think that... watch

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    ...the university you attend doesn't matter, and your grad prospects are equal?

    I've been lurking on this forum for months now, without an account, and there are always threads saying is

    <insert former poly here> good/presitigious?

    and there is always the response that says "Oh it doesn't matter what university you go to!"

    If that's the case, why do so many students work their socks off through A-Levels in order to get into a university that has a higher entry tarriff? I mean, I have seen mods on here saying that it doesnt matter etc etc etc?

    Does this mean we can all go to universities like Liverpool, Liverpool John Moores, London Metropolitan, LSBU, City university, university of suffolk, highlands and islands and still get a great job/have equal chance as say, someone that went to the Golden Triangle universities and other top ancient Scottish one and also top Irish ones?

    I'm just interested in your input
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    Most likely because they themselves go to that uni and want to feel better about themselves.

    It definitely matters but not as much as people may think.
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    (Original post by Alevelsman)
    ...the university you attend doesn't matter, and your grad prospects are equal?

    I've been lurking on this forum for months now, without an account, and there are always threads saying is

    <insert former poly here> good/presitigious?

    and there is always the response that says "Oh it doesn't matter what university you go to!"

    If that's the case, why do so many students work their socks off through A-Levels in order to get into a university that has a higher entry tarriff? I mean, I have seen mods on here saying that it doesnt matter etc etc etc?

    Does this mean we can all go to universities like Liverpool, Liverpool John Moores, London Metropolitan, LSBU, City university, university of suffolk, highlands and islands and still get a great job/have equal chance as say, someone that went to the Golden Triangle universities and other top ancient Scottish one and also top Irish ones?

    I'm just interested in your input
    Because some of those responses are quite simply, wrong, and only said to make bad students feel better about themselves.

    Where you go for University absolutely does matter - however the extent to which it matters is dependent on a) the industry you want to go into (for example highly-competitive industries have A-level requirements that mean that you do need to be going to a good uni just to meet the minimum requirements) and b) how good your profile is once you get there.

    If you go to sub-par university however beef up your profile through sports / society administrative posts / volunteering / work experience / strong uni marks etc then you do have as good a shot at a competitive job as someone from a better University, it's just you might have to put more work in to achieve that standard than someone at a top institution might have to do - opportunities for CV boosting are more readily available at better institutions.

    It also depends on the course that you are applying for - London Met (for example - I am not stating this as fact) may be good for a specialist course which is something you may want to do, and that is fine. But again, the student themselves needs to do their own research into this.
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    Bit harsh to put Liverpool in with that group

    Deffo matters where u go, but outside the obvious (oxbridge) and up to a point (russell group PLUS other unis on a similar level E.G Bath, St Andrews, UEA etc) they are fairly similar. Some give better prospect (I.E you'll almost certainly be better going UCL than like Newcastle) but the difference, IMO, is marginal (for most jobs).
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    For someone who's been apparently lurking that long you've managed to miss the point very well.
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    Because the students working their socks off are the ones doing A Levels at college, not the ones with first hand experience at university. I can tell you that your GCSE grades don't matter all I like, if you're sitting your GCSEs now you'll feel (and be made to feel) like it's the most important thing in the world.

    Additionally, the grade you get matters far more than the University. Simply going to a top uni doesn't guarantee top grades. Going to a non-russel uni doesn't guarantee you'll always miss out to an Oxbridge student. Sure it matters, but it's not the most important thing and nobody outright says it doesn't matter at all.

    On top of that, it's not simply about working hard to go to the uni with the highest entry criteria. It's about going to the uni you want to go to. If I wanted to go to Oxford for example because I thought it would offer me better facilities and a better level of teaching (even if I was only aiming for a 2:1) then I'd have to work harder to get into Oxford.

    Then you also realise that not the entire forum thinks the same way. Some will say your uni matters immensely. Some people here will look down on you if you don't go to a uni they approve of. Others will tell you it doesn't matter. There are so many conflicting opinions, who exactly should pre-degree students be listening to?

    Ultimately your university choice simply does not matter as far as prestige goes. If you are focused on going to uni for prestige then you're focusing on the wrong thing. Getting a degree does not guarantee a job. If all you've done is go to uni for a degree then you've wasted your time and money. What's far important is everything else you come out with. A student who goes and gets a 1st but has nothing else to show for it is much less useful than a student getting a 2:1 that has been involved with lots of extra projects and has skills to show for it. A 2:1 and a solid portfolio is more powerful than a 1st and some uni name prestige.

    So in short, students work hard so that they can go to the uni they want to for whatever reasons they feel are appropriate. But in terms of what actually matters, the important things are the degree classification you come out with and all the other things you've done to make yourself stand out. Next in importance is things like contacts in industry and much lower in importance is the prestige.

    I specifically chose my uni because it offered a better environment and more friendly staff to work with, even though I looked at more prestiguous universities. The opportunities and specialisation afforded to me far outweighs the prestige I would have gotten from a russell group uni.

    In answer to the other question in the OP, no you will not have the same equal chance of getting a job across all the universities listed. However this is far more down to candidate individuality than prestige. There's a natural correlation between lower achieveing students attending low prestige universities and high achieveing students going to high prestige universities. And of course the high achievers from the russel groups have a better chance of going on to get jobs. But that's specifically because they were high achievers. Put the high achievers in the poorer quality universities and providing they aren't using education as a crutch they will likely end up with a similar result. Put the underachieveing students in a russell group and they're unlikely to do well.
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    Well a lot of the highly competitive jobs you seem to be interested in have a A level filter

    but anyway...
    If someone's asking is X prestigious it's probably because they've got the grades to go to X and wouldn't be accepted at Oxbridge... and any advice that doesn't recognise that the asker need to work with what they've got isn't useful advice. Saying 'oh no oxbridge is more prestigious than X' doesn't help.

    ---
    Anyway hard work is morally and psychologically good for you* and will train you to be better prepared for life than coasting

    *though of course it is possible to over do it
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    (Original post by Alevelsman)
    ...the university you attend doesn't matter, and your grad prospects are equal?

    I've been lurking on this forum for months now, without an account, and there are always threads saying is

    <insert former poly here> good/presitigious?

    and there is always the response that says "Oh it doesn't matter what university you go to!"

    If that's the case, why do so many students work their socks off through A-Levels in order to get into a university that has a higher entry tarriff? I mean, I have seen mods on here saying that it doesnt matter etc etc etc?

    Does this mean we can all go to universities like Liverpool, Liverpool John Moores, London Metropolitan, LSBU, City university, university of suffolk, highlands and islands and still get a great job/have equal chance as say, someone that went to the Golden Triangle universities and other top ancient Scottish one and also top Irish ones?

    I'm just interested in your input
    People like to work hard because:

    - they're going into a competitive field that distinguishes between applicants based on their university name, and/or their university and A-level grades
    - they want to go to a top uni because of the other, non-career related benefits it offers (great teaching, a good selection of modules, clever, ambitious classmates, a particular location, access to prominent speakers, competitive extracurriculars and facilities, etc)
    - they want to please themselves, their parents, their family, their teachers, their school, etc

    It's not all about grad prospects (which can't be generalised anway). Even though there's fairly conclusive evidence that the top unis do very well in that department, they're just one consideration out of many, particularly for those studying courses that don't push you towards one career path, and who therefore have a few years to decide on what they want to do in life.
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    My personal experience (academia) is that application, hard work and tenacity are more important than prestige, though not everybody's experience will be the same. It's funny how yous lot have a tendency to look down on each other here about universities when the people that work in them tend not to have that outlook. My experience with Oxbridge scholars (and basically every other scholar - even Ivy League guys) is that if you are able, it is obvious, and it is through your ability that you are generally respected.
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    The snobbery on TSR is ridiculous. While it matters to a certain extent, in the greater picture it's not that big of a deal. Hard work, dedication, time and sacrifice will always top prestige in my personal opinion.
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    You’ll often find that the people here being university prestige snobs, etc are not actually from the most prestigious universities. In fact, most of them are not even at university, they are still doing A-levels.
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    (Original post by shameful_burrito)
    You’ll often find that the people here being university prestige snobs, etc are not actually from the most prestigious universities. In fact, most of them are not even at university, they are still doing A-levels.
    And others are burittos who need to be eaten 😆
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    (Original post by Appleorpear)
    And others are burittos who need to be eaten 😆
    I do not give consent.
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    Some people with straight A grades go to the universities you have listed (especially Liverpool and City which have a fairly high tariff entry). Like many people, they don’t just choose their uni based on some weird perception of reputation either by ranking or entry requirements, instead they choose their course due to practical reasons - namely location (students are more likely to choose universities within a vicinity of where they live/were brought up), and whether the university provides the course that they want to study.

    Working hard to get good grades is not all about getting entry into a course because of certain tariff point requirements a course has - people get above and below grade tariffs and still get into universities.

    People think that university reputation is important as their opinion is influenced by a small set of high paying jobs in the city. Whenever the debate comes into question, people cite things like earning potential figures of Oxford Economics grads vs a dance graduate from Kingston, but those group of people are not interested in the same jobs, despite most of them wanting to work in London. The A&F students of Hull uni are much more likely to be on a lower salary than the A&F students of LSE, as they are far more likely to be working in Hull than the City of London. People will quote the percentage of judges from specific highly ranked universities, without applying historic patterns (eg when those people were educated) or understanding other social factors that helped them get there (and probably helped them get into that university too).

    The Highlands and Islands university is vital to those local communities, and it’s delivery style is closer to OU than Oxford. You only have to look at the courses it provides to see if it much more tailored to the local economy. Trying to compare it to the Golden Triangle is just plain stupid. The vast majority won’t be applying for the same jobs, so what’s point in trying to work out if they would have an equal chance?

    People need to stop looking at universities as a homogenous group, and also that students all aspire to have similar outcomes after university. The variety that our universities bring is one of the key strengths of our educational system, and that diversity is important for a variety of industries and geographical locations. Without it our country would have an even worse skills gap.

    Organisations hire people not degree certificates. The drive or natural intellectual ability that allows someone to do well in their A-levels is more likely to be seen in their future academics and their attitude in the workplace.
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    Generally when people on this forum say reputation doesn't matter, what they mean is it doesn't matter much amongst the Russell Group (outside Oxbridge and 2 London unis, not even including UCL). And they are right to an extent, you're not going to be disadvantaged in any meaningful way because of the location you chose to spend three years at. Most regions in the UK are in proximity of an excellent uni, if you're ambitious and that's the place you fancy living, naturally you aim to go there.

    Although some courses and universities do tend to be more popular with certain groups of people than others, the quality of education you receive and the rigour of the course (depending on the subject) is broadly the same at most Russell Group universities (and even some outside this group). For example, Exeter has an enormous private school intake, but even people on TSR wouldn't argue that Exeter is better than the rest of the Russell Group. Durham might have a much higher entry tariff than Queen Mary, but I doubt Durham degrees are more challenging than Queen Mary degrees - if you get a 2:1 from Queen Mary, you're pretty much of the same calibre as someone with a 2:1 from Durham.

    Whereas I'd imagine the universities you listed (apart from Liverpool and City - how dare you put those in that group) are probably not even considered universities by TSR. So when people say reputation doesn't matter, they're mainly talking about the majority of the Russell Group (because there's a very small handful of them which get a questionable amount of attention and praise on here compared to other similarly established universities, just because they're 'targets' ), they're not talking about all universities.
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    everything in life should matter
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    (Original post by Alevelsman)
    ...the university you attend doesn't matter, and your grad prospects are equal?

    I've been lurking on this forum for months now, without an account, and there are always threads saying is

    <insert former poly here> good/presitigious?

    and there is always the response that says "Oh it doesn't matter what university you go to!"

    If that's the case, why do so many students work their socks off through A-Levels in order to get into a university that has a higher entry tarriff? I mean, I have seen mods on here saying that it doesnt matter etc etc etc?

    Does this mean we can all go to universities like Liverpool, Liverpool John Moores, London Metropolitan, LSBU, City university, university of suffolk, highlands and islands and still get a great job/have equal chance as say, someone that went to the Golden Triangle universities and other top ancient Scottish one and also top Irish ones?

    I'm just interested in your input
    I've seen a lot of these posts and have noticed:

    Those who says it matter are wannabes who wish they were in a top uni but are still in school. They stop shouting when they find they don't get in Oxford/Cambridge or whatever prestigious RG uni (its never a non RG uni).

    Those who say it doesn't are either - defo going to uni / in uni / graduated and in a job / employer. The mods are in this category.
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    (Original post by Alevelsman)
    ...the university you attend doesn't matter, and your grad prospects are equal?

    I've been lurking on this forum for months now, without an account, and there are always threads saying is

    <insert former poly here> good/presitigious?

    and there is always the response that says "Oh it doesn't matter what university you go to!"

    If that's the case, why do so many students work their socks off through A-Levels in order to get into a university that has a higher entry tarriff? I mean, I have seen mods on here saying that it doesnt matter etc etc etc?

    Does this mean we can all go to universities like Liverpool, Liverpool John Moores, London Metropolitan, LSBU, City university, university of suffolk, highlands and islands and still get a great job/have equal chance as say, someone that went to the Golden Triangle universities and other top ancient Scottish one and also top Irish ones?

    I'm just interested in your input
    At the end of the day teaching and facilities are better at some of the top unis but it is always down to personal work ethic and determination. Good GCSEs and A-Levels are just proof of your commitment and training if you like of the academic challenges to come. If you pay the same for the course anyway, you might as well go to one that is looked at more fondly. Of course A and B are not separated by which uni they went too but it doesn't hurt if nothing else is different between them.
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    (Original post by ThePricklyOne)
    I've seen a lot of these posts and have noticed:

    Those who says it matter are wannabes who wish they were in a top uni but are still in school. They stop shouting when they find they don't get in Oxford/Cambridge or whatever prestigious RG uni (its never a non RG uni).

    Those who say it doesn't are either - defo going to uni / in uni / graduated and in a job / employer. The mods are in this category.
    i go to Nottingham, i thought it was mildly important, i only applied to one russell group, though i did tailor my personal statement to include phrases from the course info. But i really never thought i would get in. But im proudly at it now. i remember my foundation centrehead saying Nottingham? you can maybe do your post grad at a place like Nottingham lol. So even the older folks have bought into the hype, thats where the kids hear it first 👂. Just top down uni beauracy advisement lol classic british culture 🇬🇧
 
 
 
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