genuinely curious, why is the graduate prospect not at the top? Watch

hanh01
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Hey
Im just curious of how they score the graduate prospect for the university rankings.
I thought Oxford might be at the very top for that category but I think there were a bunch of unis before Oxford. Im not complaining or anything but just curious of the reasons...Im guessing maybe Oxford graduates prefer to carry on with further study but can anyone confirm this for sure?

thanx in advance!
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hobnob
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It's probably just something to do with how 'graduate prospects' are defined. I really wouldn't worry about this if I were you.
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zillysteph
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yeah further study, a lot may go into the family business/enterprise. things like that really.
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Elles
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Don't forget the 'i need to find myself' post degree gap year too... before selling soul to law/finance.
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sTe\/o
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I once talked to a person who was pretty high up in the Cambridge University Careers Service - according to him, Cambridge has had better graduate prospects than Oxford over recent years largely because of his department's sterling work. That might be self-promoting BS, of course, so take it as you will. Ultimately, if you can't find a job with an Oxford degree, there's not much hope for everyone else...
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Drogue
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Graduate prospects are the number of people after 6 months who are in a graduate job. It doesn't discriminate between jobs, nor does it count people who are on gap years or so such. If you go to any top uni, you're likely to have little trouble getting some form of graduate job, and so the measure doesn't really discriminate there. However when it comes to getting into competitive careers (banking, law, consultancy, government, etc.) Oxford does pretty well. Indeed, better than anywhere I'd argue, but LSE may have something to say about that.
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hanh01
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thanx everyone!
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Alexander
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(Original post by Drogue)
nor does it count people who are on gap years or so such.
Do you mean that people who take pre-planned gap years are omitted from the statistics? Or that they are counted as not being in graduate-level jobs?
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Drogue
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They're counting as being unemployed, which is effectively what they are.

IIRC, the statistic is just a flat percentage of people who graduated 6 months ago who are in graduate jobs. I'm pretty sure this counts formal further study, but I don't think it counts anything else. Which is why Oxford does worse than some universities where fewer students take gap years or such.
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Alexander
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Just wondering, does anyone know how they classify jobs as graduate level? There are some jobs which theoretically don't require you to be a graduate, but in reality 90% plus of successful applicants are (an obvious example is armed forces officer). Are these jobs counted as graduate level or not?
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J-bob
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how about further study ie PHDs etc..surely that might count
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HCD
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(Original post by Drogue)
They're counting as being unemployed, which is effectively what they are.

IIRC, the statistic is just a flat percentage of people who graduated 6 months ago who are in graduate jobs. I'm pretty sure this counts formal further study, but I don't think it counts anything else. Which is why Oxford does worse than some universities where fewer students take gap years or such.
"Formal further study" includes PhD, so yes it does!

Why would more people take gap years at one uni compared to another?
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Elles
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(Original post by HCD)
Why would more people take gap years at one uni compared to another?
Suggestions:

£££s! = prevalence of students from higher socioeconomic backgrounds, so parents/savings that allow them to take exotic years out.

Prevalence of especially 'passionate' academically inclined students = needing to soul search about the need to stay in academia/do something worthy before selling out - default then seems to be law or fast track medicine!

Logistics of a 'finals' rather than more modular assessment system = freaking out over the classification rather than job applications, aptitude tests, selection days etc. (which can end up taking a lot of time!) in the final year.



Some of the, imho most employable people I know from my year (i.e. directly useful degrees - languages/science & really excellent results) would be counting as unemployed for the purposes of assessing graduate job % at the moment, for above reasons.
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Renal
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Don't Oxbridge have a tradition of graduates going into lecturing and post-grad research?
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sciencefan
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Similar question: any source for percentages going on to graduate school (not necessarily in Oxbridge)? I've been searching, but haven't found any figures about this.
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sciencefan
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Similar question: any source for percentages going on to graduate school (not necessarily in Oxbridge)? I've been searching, but haven't found any figures about this.
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sciencefan
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Similar question: any source for percentages going on to graduate school (not necessarily in Oxbridge)? I've been searching, but haven't found any figures about this.
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HCD
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(Original post by Elles)
Suggestions:

£££s! = prevalence of students from higher socioeconomic backgrounds, so parents/savings that allow them to take exotic years out.

Prevalence of especially 'passionate' academically inclined students = needing to soul search about the need to stay in academia/do something worthy before selling out - default then seems to be law or fast track medicine!

Logistics of a 'finals' rather than more modular assessment system = freaking out over the classification rather than job applications, aptitude tests, selection days etc. (which can end up taking a lot of time!) in the final year.
Good points! Plus the stress might make some people want to just "take a break"!
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Elles
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I'm in my 5th year now, so have had some first hand experience of a few finalists --> graduates in my time. :p:

Yeah, definitely - 'taking a break' can overlap with the means for exotic gap year / lack of desire to juggle finals & job hunting! Although at least one person I know definitely has a (rather competitive and prestigous) grad job lined up, but wanted to fulfill his gap year fantasy first - so pre-university gap year envy might feature in there too. I suspect my significant other would have taken a post degree year out (deferring his job start date) if he hadn't had one pre.

Damn statistics, eh?
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Drogue
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(Original post by HCD)
Why would more people take gap years at one uni compared to another?
Elles covered a lot of them, but the main issue is, they don't need to be. Let me try and use an example to demonstrate this:

Say that 20% of your mark in an A level was random. So 80% rests on your performance, and 20% on a roll of the dice. This would cause the total grade to be a worse tool to measure performance. It would also mean that it couldn't judge between the top few candidates - to be one of those you'd need to be good and lucky.

The same thing happens here. A proportion of where graduates go depends on their university, however if we assume for a moment that the proportion who take gap years is entirely random, then we have the problem shown above - a part merit-based, part random mark isn't able to distinguish between the top few universities.

However I would, as Elles did, argue that Oxford graduates are more likely to take gap years than at many universities, as is the experience with my friends. I would point out one other reason though in that many Oxford students don't care about careers until after finals. Having run careers events at different universities, we were always stumped by the problems of recruiting at Oxford and Cambridge (and Bristol to a lesser extent) since students just didn't care enough to come and speak to companies. For most students, especially at Oxford where people are more likely to be a bit geeky and where academics seems like the world, the more pressing concern is the next essay or the exams at the end of the year. Careers take a back seat, and so many of my friends ended up taking gap years to think about what to do after university.
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