Do you want a second referendum on brexit? Watch

Tommy123Hull
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#61
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#61
It literally can’t be changed though Article 50 has been triggered. No way back.
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username3548838
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Student-95)
People who voted leave might not want to leave anymore if they don't like the conditions in the deal.
With respect, people aren't stupid, you're sounding a bit like one of these condescending politicians who think they know better. Those arguments were discussed during the campaign, there's no evidence of a national swing to remain and we don't want to repeat what happened in Ireland and Denmark.
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Trinculo
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#63
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(Original post by Napp)
I take your point but i'm not sure what that has to do with it being the epitome of undemocratic to tell people they will damn well do as they're told and never to voice an opposing view. the way half of the extremists on here speak you'd think we lived in Stalinist Russia and anyone who wished 'remain' is about to be deported to a Gulag..
The exact same is true of the Remain side, who find the very idea of the referendum to be anathema.

What it boils down to is that this has been probably the most divisive issue in British politics for 30 years or more. For every person that loves the EU, there is a person who hates it. For every argument that the EU is a good thing, there is one that it is bad. For every person who thinks that Remainers should be forced to comply, there is a remainer who thinks that there should effectively be a pro-EU coup.

No one knows the answer, and in all likelihood, no one ever will. No matter what happens, Remainers will go to their graves swearing that Britain was better off with the EU.
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Napp
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Trinculo)
The exact same is true of the Remain side, who find the very idea of the referendum to be anathema.

What it boils down to is that this has been probably the most divisive issue in British politics for 30 years or more. For every person that loves the EU, there is a person who hates it. For every argument that the EU is a good thing, there is one that it is bad. For every person who thinks that Remainers should be forced to comply, there is a remainer who thinks that there should effectively be a pro-EU coup.

No one knows the answer, and in all likelihood, no one ever will. No matter what happens, Remainers will go to their graves swearing that Britain was better off with the EU.
I would ask not to be tarred with a general brush as I have no objection to referendums per say - i mean i think this one was sheer lunacy in how and why it was conducted but the referendum in of itself, no issues.

Ha that i can agree with, for things to perfectly polarize the UK few things can rival this. That is why I would say this makes it a special case that should be treated with all the more care though. I mean leave won - fair enough - but the fact they then go around rubbing peoples faces in it is hardly conductive to the public good or getting people to unite behind it? It simply makes the divide more stark and insurmountable.

Definitely a fair assumption that :lol:
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Tommy123Hull
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#65
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#65
Napp Can we at least be in agreement that Theresa May is bad?
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Napp
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Tommy123Hull)
Napp Can we at least be in agreement that Theresa May is bad?
Oh yes. she is the most useless Oxygen thief I have ever heard of!
I found it amusing the Tory peer who said he thought having Corbyn in would be preferable to her as shes cocking the thing up so spectacularly.
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paul514
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Napp)
Then why are you Brexit lot so terrified of 'saboteurs' if we are most definitely 100% leaving?
You just made the perfect case for why a vote on our exit terms needs to be done...
The whole sabotage stuff is about the terms of leaving aka let’s be in the single market and customs union or even just simply setting bars which are impossible to be reached.

As for changing our minds it would have to be an overwhelming change in opinion in polls and they simply haven’t changed over the last 18 months.

Voting on the terms is retarded as you will never get a majority for ANY deal and that is staying by stealth unless it’s accept these terms or we leave on WTO which is the vote parliament will get. There also isn’t time to hold a referendum on the deal and the EU has zero incentive to give anything in negotiations if they know there will be a referendum on the deal that isn’t an accept or wto vote.

On every turn it’s not possible.

Lastly I made the perfect case why this is all over we can’t not leave at this point and we will never vote to rejoin because of what I said on my last post.
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Student-95
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Hatter_2)
With respect, people aren't stupid, you're sounding a bit like one of these condescending politicians who think they know better. Those arguments were discussed during the campaign, there's no evidence of a national swing to remain and we don't want to repeat what happened in Ireland and Denmark.
Lol it's got nothing to do with stupidity. People aren't psychic and the leave they voted for may well be very different to the reality.
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Anna1029
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Napp)
It still doesnt negate the fact that more people did not vote to leave the EU.

At any rate I maintain that, like most other countries, such a decision should only go ahead with a super-majority. A 4% difference is overly flimsy for such a profound change. Especially as both campaigns lied through their teeth.
I do also think that they should have only done Brexit if it was at least 60-40 or something, but they did go through it, and it wouldn’t make sense to have a second referendum just because some people regret their decision now that they’ve seen the consequences.
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username3548838
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Student-95)
Lol it's got nothing to do with stupidity. People aren't psychic and the leave they voted for may well be very different to the reality.
They voted to take back our sovereignty, control our own borders, end payments to the EU, control our own trading relationships, and regain control of our fishing waters.

A deal will only be bad if it delays or compromises on any of these, but long term we will have brexit. The deal is irrelevant and certainly won't make many people want to remain.
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Student-95
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Hatter_2)
They voted to take back our sovereignty, control our own borders, end payments to the EU, control our own trading relationships, and regain control of our fishing waters.

A deal will only be bad if it delays or compromises on any of these, but long term we will have brexit. The deal is irrelevant and certainly won't make many people want to remain.
The deal is anything but irrelevant and may well compromise on aspects that pushes people to vote leave.
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username3548838
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Student-95)
The deal is anything but irrelevant and may well compromise on aspects that pushes people to vote leave.
Please give an example.
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Trinculo
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Student-95)
The deal is anything but irrelevant and may well compromise on aspects that pushes people to vote leave.
Why do you love the EU so much?

This is a serious question. There seem to be a lot of people who hold philosophically very strong views and have what appears to be a very deep attachment to what is effectively a supranational institution
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Ganjaweed Rebel
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Tommy123Hull)
It literally can’t be changed though Article 50 has been triggered. No way back.
Of course it can. Article 50 is just an arbitrary manmade law.
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Ganjaweed Rebel
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#75
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#75
(Original post by Anna1029)
I do also think that they should have only done Brexit if it was at least 60-40 or something, but they did go through it, and it wouldn’t make sense to have a second referendum just because some people regret their decision now that they’ve seen the consequences.
I voted to remain but this is far worse than having a second referendum because people won't accept the validity of a say 55% Brexit voting Remain victory.
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Tommy123Hull
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Ganjaweed Rebel)
Of course it can. Article 50 is just an arbitrary manmade law.
You can hope all you want but that won’t happen.

And I’m sorry but all laws are manmade - surely.
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Ganjaweed Rebel
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Tommy123Hull)
You can hope all you want but that won’t happen.

And I’m sorry but all laws are manmade - surely.
Laws of science and mathematics are absolute. Debates in parliament, votes, it's all *******s.
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Student-95
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#78
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(Original post by Trinculo)
Why do you love the EU so much?

This is a serious question. There seem to be a lot of people who hold philosophically very strong views and have what appears to be a very deep attachment to what is effectively a supranational institution
When did I say I love, or even like the EU?

Maybe it seems that way because you misinterpret people's comments and falsely assume they love the EU when they have said nothing of the sort.
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Napp
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Anna1029)
I do also think that they should have only done Brexit if it was at least 60-40 or something, but they did go through it, and it wouldn’t make sense to have a second referendum just because some people regret their decision now that they’ve seen the consequences.
Surely that is the perfect reason to have a second referendum? Regardless of which way one leans on the matter it is ones right to change their mind or simply reaffirm their decision.
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curlsixtb
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Anna1029)
People are forgetting that Brexit is happening because the majority of people wanted it to happen and voted accordingly... It’s like Trump’s victory - people should just accept that that’s what most people want
Most people wanted Clinton though (around 3 million more) but trump won because of the electoral college. But I definitely agree with you on the fact that we should accept the fact that more people voted to leave. The only thing that I'm annoyed about leaving now is the deal may seems to negotiated with the EU.
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