What’s more important to you- social policy or economic policy?

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Davij038
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Thinking about how the latest French General election would have played out had it been in the UK.

Lefties: would you have voted for the economically right wing but socially liberal Macron

Rightists: would you have voted for the economically left wing but socially conservative le pen.

If so why/ why not?

I think this sort of divergence is going to become increasingly the norm. In a sense the big debates are going to be between classical liberals and left leaning nationalists/ conservatives
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(1)Quantum
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Economic policy is much more important to me mainly because its harder to change than a social policy, which being very emotive means you can normally change peoples minds more easily.

I think your question choices are misguided. being on the left or right are economic, not social positions. While they are sometimes used for a social choice when you are talking about both economic and social policy its good to keep the two separate into 2 dimensions.

I would of voted... uh im not sure. Probably macron but i hate his economics still. Not economically right wing at all. At Least not for a Libertarian like me.
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completecretin
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(Original post by Davij038)
Thinking about how the latest French General election would have played out had it been in the UK.

Lefties: would you have voted for the economically right wing but socially liberal Macron

Rightists: would you have voted for the economically left wing but socially conservative le pen.

If so why/ why not?

I think this sort of divergence is going to become increasingly the norm. In a sense the big debates are going to be between classical liberals and left leaning nationalists/ conservatives
Both are interlinked...
You cant seperate them.
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hannah00
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Think the framing of your question is wrong.

You cant apply the circumstances of french politics to the UK.

Conservatives have won 3 elections in a row

Whilst the last french candidate didnt even run for reelection
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Davij038
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(Original post by ugaaa5)
Both are interlinked...
You cant seperate them.
What are interlinked?

You can be socially co Serbs to e and economically left leaning as I have described
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Davij038
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(Original post by hannah00)
Think the framing of your question is wrong.

You cant apply the circumstances of french politics to the UK.

Conservatives have won 3 elections in a row

Whilst the last french candidate didnt even run for reelection
I don’t see why not.

So what?

David Cameron didn’t run for re-election either
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completecretin
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(Original post by Davij038)
I don’t see why not.

So what?

David Cameron didn’t run for re-election either
Nevermind, you are not worth arguing with. You dismiss people so easily and seem to be very closed minded.
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username3672344
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(Original post by Davij038)
Thinking about how the latest French General election would have played out had it been in the UK.

Lefties: would you have voted for the economically right wing but socially liberal Macron

Rightists: would you have voted for the economically left wing but socially conservative le pen.

If so why/ why not?

I think this sort of divergence is going to become increasingly the norm. In a sense the big debates are going to be between classical liberals and left leaning nationalists/ conservatives
Interesting question.

I'm Leftist economically and fairly socially liberal.

While I liked Macron's support for social liberalism and of the EU, I essentially considered him as basically a French George Osborne/Nick Clegg. Economically you could argue that I was closer to Le Pen.
Having said that, I just couldn't have voted Le Pen considering what her party stands for. I would have voted Macron, without enthusiasm.

What I don't know though is what I'd have done if the run off had been between Fillon and Le Pen. I probably would have just abstained. Couldn't give my support to either.
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by (1)Quantum)
Economic policy is much more important to me mainly because its harder to change than a social policy, which being very emotive means you can normally change peoples minds more easily.

I think your question choices are misguided. being on the left or right are economic, not social positions. While they are sometimes used for a social choice when you are talking about both economic and social policy its good to keep the two separate into 2 dimensions.

I would of voted... uh im not sure. Probably macron but i hate his economics still. Not economically right wing at all. At Least not for a Libertarian like me.
Social policy is more emotive and so therefore more easy to influence?

I disagree, having studied political psychology. People’s ideologies and world views are wrapped just as much in beliefs about social policy as economic policy. Also economic policy is just as “emotive”.
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(1)Quantum
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(Original post by Waldorf67)
Social policy is more emotive and so therefore more easy to influence?

I disagree, having studied political psychology. People’s ideologies and world views are wrapped just as much in beliefs about social policy as economic policy. Also economic policy is just as “emotive”.
Clearly Incorrect, the public mood on social policy changes with the wind. Normally on recent events. let's say you have a referenda on the death penalty not long after a controversially short sentence was given to a serial rapist or killer. People are much more likely to vote for the death penalty then if they had just heard about Someone in the united states that had just been found innocent after being executed. Timing can have a huge influence on social policy because public mood changes so quickly. convincing someone that complete drug legalisation is a good thing is much easier than trying to turn a socialist into a free market libertarian.
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by (1)Quantum)
Clearly Incorrect, the public mood on social policy changes with the wind. Normally on recent events. let's say you have a referenda on the death penalty not long after a controversially short sentence was given to a serial rapist or killer. People are much more likely to vote for the death penalty then if they had just heard about Someone in the united states that had just been found innocent after being executed. Timing can have a huge influence on social policy because public mood changes so quickly. convincing someone that complete drug legalisation is a good thing is much easier than trying to turn a socialist into a free market libertarian.
A person’s beliefs about employment support is likely to change with the wind?
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Rakas21
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Given that Macron is only a centrist by objective standards (France is further left in general) and Le Pen is a hard Socialist i would have spoilt my ballot in the second round.

Generally economic policy is most important to me however i do have sympathy for the social positions of the alt-right and their opposition to the modern social justice movement.
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(1)Quantum
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(Original post by Waldorf67)
A person’s beliefs about employment support is likely to change with the wind?
That's economic policy, not social policy. Welfare, taxation, regulation etc these are economic position. Drugs, Immigration, Same sex, marriage etc these are social positions
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by (1)Quantum)
That's economic policy, not social policy. Welfare, taxation, regulation etc these are economic position. Drugs, Immigration, Same sex, marriage etc these are social positions

Incorrect, welfare falls under social policy. Google it if you don’t believe me.
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(1)Quantum
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(Original post by Waldorf67)
Incorrect, welfare falls under social policy. Google it if you don’t believe me.
"google it if you dont believe me" Well its good to know where you get all your information from. Aside from that you could make the case otherwise but for this purpose its economic because it's about the way the state spends money. even though we disagree on this basis i can still argue the case. yes you could say welfare positions change quickly. talk about how a fat unemployed couple of 9 is getting some stupid amount of money per week and you will likely generate resentment. Talk about how a pensioner died out of not being able to afford heating and it goes the other way. Someone unemployed might be solidly on the side of wanting support but after getting a job for a bit might slowly change his mind again.

In comparison to regulation and taxation, most people hold a position on taxation pretty firmly and the same with regulation, its much harder to change peoples minds. making a socialist more libertarian or authoritarian is easy. making a socialist more capitalist friendly is not.
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CountBrandenburg
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Economic definitely... though given my stance around here, I do care quite a bit about the social side ( though I accept that may not change as much as I hope)
Let’s be honest none of the French candidates were great and now France seems to stuck with someone with a weird mismatch of policies that don’t seem to benefiting anyone ( not like Le Pen would be any better, I don’t think she would know what to do on the national side of things tbh)
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Waldorf67
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(Original post by (1)Quantum)
"google it if you dont believe me" Well its good to know where you get all your information from. Aside from that you could make the case otherwise but for this purpose its economic because it's about the way the state spends money. even though we disagree on this basis i can still argue the case. yes you could say welfare positions change quickly. talk about how a fat unemployed couple of 9 is getting some stupid amount of money per week and you will likely generate resentment. Talk about how a pensioner died out of not being able to afford heating and it goes the other way. Someone unemployed might be solidly on the side of wanting support but after getting a job for a bit might slowly change his mind again.

In comparison to regulation and taxation, most people hold a position on taxation pretty firmly and the same with regulation, its much harder to change peoples minds. making a socialist more libertarian or authoritarian is easy. making a socialist more capitalist friendly is not.

I’m sorry, you never utilise Google for information? Utter nonsense.

It’s not up to me or you to make a case, something is either categorised as social policy, or it isn’t.
The definition of social policy is not up for discussion I’m afraid, we aren’t hear for that.

And welfare is categorised as social policy. You were wrong, move on.

Do you believe beliefs concerning welfare are not tied in with an individual’s ideologies and world views?

Yes changing the recipient of welfare in a scenario is likely to yield different answers. But it would yield different answers to everyone, because they are different scenarios.

I can just as easily apply your argument to economic policy such as taxation. For example, asking someone whether they agree with income tax will yield different results to asking someone whether they agree to the same extent, with inheritance tax.


The two different answers to the two different scenarios does not suggest that an attitude or opinion has changed. That’s actually manipulation.
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Davij038
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(Original post by Waldorf67)
Incorrect, welfare falls under social policy. Google it if you don’t believe me.
You’re kinda right, but not quite. Ultimately welfare forms under economic as its money provided by the state ultimately. That said it is influenced by social policy: whether society should even have a welfare system etc.
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Davij038
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(Original post by CountBrandenburg)
Economic definitely... though given my stance around here, I do care quite a bit about the social side ( though I accept that may not change as much as I hope)
Let’s be honest none of the French candidates were great and now France seems to stuck with someone with a weird mismatch of policies that don’t seem to benefiting anyone ( not like Le Pen would be any better, I don’t think she would know what to do on the national side of things tbh)
Oddly enough and despite being at loggerheads I actually quite like both Macron and Le Pen and would take either over May.
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Davij038
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(Original post by (1)Quantum)
Economic policy is much more important to me mainly because its harder to change than a social policy, which being very emotive means you can normally change peoples minds more easily.
Ay? Depends on the policies. Letting in half a million refugees for instance is going to have more repercussion than raising tax a bit.

I think your question choices are misguided. being on the left or right are economic, not social positions. While they are sometimes used for a social choice when you are talking about both economic and social policy its good to keep the two separate into 2 dimensions.
I disagree- i suppose it changes over time. For instance in the UK two centuries ago the Tory Party was seen as on the right and the Liberals, though more to the right economically were seen as on the left. When there is a degree of vo send us around social policy like has been in the West for some time then it makes to distinguish purely on economic factors. This consensus is starting to fall a part now.,

I would of voted... uh im not sure. Probably macron but i hate his economics still. Not economically right wing at all. At Least not for a Libertarian like me.
If you’re a social libertarian in France, Macron is pretty based. He’s ending a lot of state subsidies etc, and for France he may as well be the Tea Party.

His comment about rioters was pretty hilarious too


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.n...nts-2017%3famp
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