How do we solve the NHS crisis?

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Harriso1
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Our system is brilliant compared to other countries but we could obviously improve.

• Do we need more financial investment?
• Is a complete audit of the system needed?
• Should privatisation be considered?
• Is the solution at local level or national level?

• Is it in a crisis?
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04MR17
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I think we ought to stop treating people who've caused their own illness, through their own poor lifestyle choices.
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solar222222
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By voting Labour.
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Harriso1
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(Original post by 04MR17)
I think we ought to stop treating people who've caused their own illness, through their own poor lifestyle choices.
How would we assess and measure something like this? Is it really fair to deny healthcare to those who many uniformed and not educated on what's healthy/what's not?
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Harriso1
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(Original post by solar222222)
By voting Labour.
What would Labour do differently apart from more money ma g?
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04MR17
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(Original post by Harriso1)
How would we assess and measure something like this? Is it really fair to deny healthcare to those who many uniformed and not educated on what's healthy/what's not?
I don't know, but the biggest problem is there's too many patients, with too many (often preventable) ailments and not enough people to treat them. Throwing money at the problem is what's been tried, it doesn't work brilliantly. The NHS is under resourced in people. How would we assess it? A doctor could walk in, look at the patient, identify that whatever the problem is, it's caused by a lack of exercise, poor diet etc. Why should the taxpayer have to compensate for that person's poor life choices? I haven't yet seen a credible answer.
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Harriso1
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(Original post by 04MR17)
I don't know, but the biggest problem is there's too many patients, with too many (often preventable) ailments and not enough people to treat them. Throwing money at the problem is what's been tried, it doesn't work brilliantly. The NHS is under resourced in people. How would we assess it? A doctor could walk in, look at the patient, identify that whatever the problem is, it's caused by a lack of exercise, poor diet etc. Why should the taxpayer have to compensate for that person's poor life choices? I haven't yet seen a credible answer.
More money = more hospitals and more wages to pay more doctors to deal with more patients so more money could defiantly help.

Yes but how do we know that the individual's social/economic situation hasn't led to these 'poor lifestyle choices' instead of just a lack of care.

Also, isn't it our right to help others in society who need it as a member of the society? Whether they self inflicted the damage or not should not matter. Ethics should come first.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Harriso1)
More money = more hospitals and more wages to pay more doctors to deal with more patients so more money could defiantly help.

Yes but how do we know that the individual's social/economic situation hasn't led to these 'poor lifestyle choices' instead of just a lack of care.

Also, isn't it our right to help others in society who need it as a member of the society? Whether they self inflicted the damage or not should not matter. Ethics should come first.
More wages to pay what doctors? There aren't enough. More money helps, it doesn't solve the problems.

If the patient makes that claim, with proof, then I don't see why this couldn't be arranged.

Who need it, exactly. If they had health in the first place they shouldn't have thrown it away. It's about being honest regarding the resources available, and the growing problems that the system will to continue to face with this ageing population.
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Harriso1
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(Original post by 04MR17)
More wages to pay what doctors? There aren't enough. More money helps, it doesn't solve the problems.

If the patient makes that claim, with proof, then I don't see why this couldn't be arranged.

Who need it, exactly. If they had health in the first place they shouldn't have thrown it away. It's about being honest regarding the resources available, and the growing problems that the system will to continue to face with this ageing population.
More money to get foreign doctors who want a better quality of life in this county? Something like that I'd say or think long term and put more stuff out there to encourage teens to become doctors.

I think we should try and help everyone and not exclude people who come wanting help. It doesn't match up to the values we have. Critical situations should be prioritised but that's as far as it should go.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Harriso1)
More money to get foreign doctors who want a better quality of life in this county? Something like that I'd say or think long term and put more stuff out there to encourage teens to become doctors.

I think we should try and help everyone and not exclude people who come wanting help. It doesn't match up to the values we have. Critical situations should be prioritised but that's as far as it should go.
For however many years that has been the agenda, it hasn't made much of a dent into shortages. We'll soon be asking Hungary for doctors, and medically speaking that's not a good idea.:nope:

I'd love to be able to do that, but the system physically can't manage it, you've made a thread about a crisis in the NHS, time to admit there is one and the solution may not be perfect.
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Tiger Rag
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(Original post by 04MR17)
I don't know, but the biggest problem is there's too many patients, with too many (often preventable) ailments and not enough people to treat them. Throwing money at the problem is what's been tried, it doesn't work brilliantly. The NHS is under resourced in people. How would we assess it? A doctor could walk in, look at the patient, identify that whatever the problem is, it's caused by a lack of exercise, poor diet etc. Why should the taxpayer have to compensate for that person's poor life choices? I haven't yet seen a credible answer.
2 of the conditions I have, (I inherited one and have the other because of it) has numerous causes including drug and alcohol abuse. How would anyone decide whether that was the cause? It's not always that straight forward.
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Sam.T.
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There obviously needs to be more investment. Raising taxes won’t go well with anyone, maybe increasing corporate tax (which is really low because of the conservative Government). However this could impact small businesses ETC.

The only way I can see the NHS, getting more investment is through privatisation. I’m not saying all of it should be private, but in order to get more financial backing & investment some parts of it needs to private. Which parts of it should be private? I’m not too sure
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username3434964
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Get rid of May
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Tiger Rag
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Educating people when to actually sought medical help will go a long way too. Yes, there are some cases when it's quite clear you have no idea what to do; so you go and see someone. But some people do appear to see their GP / A&E whenever anything's wrong.
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Blue_Cow
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You're just going to get tabloid-fueled, non-evidence-based solutions to the NHS crisis by asking here.

Be wary of those offering simple 'solutions' to complex problems. People who do this are certified snake oil salespeople.
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nexttime
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(Original post by Blue_Cow)
You're just going to get tabloid-fueled, non-evidence-based solutions to the NHS crisis by asking here.
So Government policy then?
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nexttime
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(Original post by 04MR17)
A doctor could walk in, look at the patient, identify that whatever the problem is, it's caused by a lack of exercise, poor diet etc. Why should the taxpayer have to compensate for that person's poor life choices?
Its just not practicable to try to implement that on an individual basis. Firstly, a lot of doctors will just refuse. Secondly - its just not possible to tell in lots of cases. Is this man's diabetes due to his poor diet or is he genetically predisposed? Etc. The amount of cost and bureacracy of individual assessments, definitely something that would attract huge legal attention and lots of appeals etc, also makes my head hurt. You could declare certain conditions not covered by the NHS on the basis that they are on average caused by lifestyle choices in most cases, but you'd be catching a lot of people unfairly.

(Original post by 04MR17)
More wages to pay what doctors? There aren't enough.
It might stop doctors from migrating to Australia? Or taking years out of employment?

More money helps, it doesn't solve the problems.
I mean, it clearly does solve almost all problems right? If you doubled the NHS budget all its problems will go away overnight i assure you :p:

Its about fixing the NHS in an environment where people don't want to pay for it that's the challenge.
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04MR17
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That face when the next morning people pick up on something you said at 3am the previous night.

(Original post by Tiger Rag)
2 of the conditions I have, (I inherited one and have the other because of it) has numerous causes including drug and alcohol abuse. How would anyone decide whether that was the cause? It's not always that straight forward.
It's complicated I completely agree. I don't know how since I'm not medically knowledgeable. I'm conscious that addiction is an illness too, and so some people shouldn't be to blame if they're addicted to something I guess.:dontknow: I'm just being an idealist an usual.:hippie:

(Original post by nexttime)
Its just not practicable to try to implement that on an individual basis. Firstly, a lot of doctors will just refuse. Secondly - its just not possible to tell in lots of cases. Is this man's diabetes due to his poor diet or is he genetically predisposed? Etc. The amount of cost and bureacracy of individual assessments, definitely something that would attract huge legal attention and lots of appeals etc, also makes my head hurt. You could declare certain conditions not covered by the NHS on the basis that they are on average caused by lifestyle choices in most cases, but you'd be catching a lot of people unfairly.

It might stop doctors from migrating to Australia? Or taking years out of employment?

I mean, it clearly does solve almost all problems right? If you doubled the NHS budget all its problems will go away overnight i assure you :p:

Its about fixing the NHS in an environment where people don't want to pay for it that's the challenge.
True. As I said above, I'm an idealist.

I think in the grand scheme of things, Doctors get quite a bit. I think they totally deserve it, and they deserve more (certainly more than footballers deserve:grumble:), but compared to everyone else, doctors get a lot. If you significantly increase doctors wages more professions will want the same.

One of the biggest issues is the fact that the current Health Secretary wrote a book on how we shouldn't have an NHS.:shakecane: This government....:grumble:
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Ukvoltaire
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(Original post by Harriso1)
Our system is brilliant compared to other countries but we could obviously improve.

• Do we need more financial investment?
• Is a complete audit of the system needed?
• Should privatisation be considered?
• Is the solution at local level or national level?

• Is it in a crisis?
We could actually.
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Gwilym101
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Actually fund it properly, stop treating the people who work in it like ****, and restore support services as well as other aspects of social care. This is almost entirely a government produced problem which is not surprising as the tories detest the NHS.
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