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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    I think that people should be allowed to have any kind of guns they want. The people who purchase them legally aren't the ones committing crimes. I feel safer knowing that people in the US are allowed to own guns, actually.
    Really?

    Columbine, Dunblane, Erfurt - all legaly owned guns I believe.
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    (Original post by sashh)
    Really?

    Columbine, Dunblane, Erfurt - all legaly owned guns I believe.
    First, only one of those instances was in the US, which is the country my little debate with Will was targetting. If you compare the number of gun crimes committed with legally purchased firearms with the number involving illegal purchases, you can see that the vast majority occur from illegally obtained guns.
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    (Original post by Infinity)
    I never said it was a good example, my point however still stands that if they are illegal then the people selling them can be arrested for doing so.
    This implies that the people selling these weapons today legally are in the wrong and should be arrested.

    Of course criminals will still find ways to purchase such weapons but I do not see any reason for a law abiding civilian to own one, the only reason you would need that much fire power would be to take out numerous targets not just one individual threat to your self or property.
    Most of my posting was done in leiu of some suggestions that the US take away the rights to own firearms, in general. You are misjudging my previous statements supporting the right to own handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc. My only issue with banning automatic weapons is that it is ineffective, because they can still be sold under different names, or with minor alterations (which can then be re-adjusted by the buyer) and is therefore pointless.

    Besides where do you draw the line? Weapons are becoming more advanced everyday. Sorry but I really don't like the idea of knowing my neighbor {who has threatened to shut my dog up permanently} can go and buy an AK 47 legally. :rolleyes:
    See above.
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    Well, I see the validity in your points, but I'd still feel uneasy if I knew that everyone in my street could own a gun. Possessing a gun myself wouldn't make me feel much safer either, and I would feel that it gives me an unfair advantage over others.

    Hmm, I'm just wondering when firearms laws were tightened in the UK.
    In Victorian times, many middle-class people carried a revolver in their briefcase or kept one in a locked drawer. Of course, it's still possible to obtain a permit for any firearm that doesn't fall into these categories. It is rather rare for a civilian to go about trying to obtain a permit though, as self defence is not seen as a valid reason for wanting to possess a firearm by the UK government.

    Actually, I think gun laws may have been tightened over here because of the IRA's campaign of terror about 20 years ago. I believe that many of the terrorists' weapons were purchased legally at the time.

    I'm not particularly trying to argue in this post, just inform.
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    The IRA don't just act illegaly they act legally as well when aquiring weapons . You should know this clearly as it is a well available and clearly understood matter. Ashamed of you
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    This implies that the people selling these weapons today legally are in the wrong and should be arrested.
    I was actually referring to street dealers who up till this point were selling illegally.



    Most of my posting was done in leiu of some suggestions that the US take away the rights to own firearms, in general. You are misjudging my previous statements supporting the right to own handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc. My only issue with banning automatic weapons is that it is ineffective, because they can still be sold under different names, or with minor alterations (which can then be re-adjusted by the buyer) and is therefore pointless.

    See above.
    No I haven't misjudged your statement, however I think you are looking to hard for an arguement in mine. I don't see anything wrong with civilians rights to bear arms, just the type of arms that they are allowed to bear. Hanguns & shotguns are fine imo, but there needs to be a limit on how much firepower a civilian can own. Which is why I feel not only should the ban be temporarily reinstated, but that the laws concerning weapons ownership needs to be changed aswell.
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    (Original post by USUK1)
    The IRA don't just act illegaly they act legally as well when aquiring weapons . You should know this clearly as it is a well available and clearly understood matter. Ashamed of you
    I didn't understand a word of that, I'm afraid. Could you please clarify what you mean by that? It sounds like you're confirming what I said about the IRA acquiring weapons legally and using them for crime.

    I was talking about the extreme factions of the IRA besides.
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    (Original post by frost105)
    the right to bear arms is well out dated. Effectively you live in a civilised society and personally i think that having a gun/firearm makes a situation more dangerous.
    Americans have the right to bear arms, in the event that they must take up arms against their goverment in order to protect their personal freedoms and liberties from the government. I don't see how the ability to defend individual liberties and personal freedoms could ever be outdated.

    You see, in the UK the government controls the people. Your government has full control over everyone and tells everyone what to do, and you can't do anything about it because the government has all the power and people have no power. But in America it's the other way around. Americans have guns, to make sure the politicians are kept in line.
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    (Original post by Mr Moncal)
    I agree that it is outdated. Originally the ammendment to allow arms was to give us the right to protect ourselves when the government couldn't. That is no longer the situation. There is no reason to have them now other than hunting, and I pity anyone who needs an Automatic Rifle to shoot an animal.
    If normal people shouldn't be allowed to have those guns, then neither should the police or military. America's 2nd Amendment was made to protect against the government becoming a tyranny (by the way, left-wing desire for gun control comes from the fact that modern left-wing philosophy is almost wholly derived from Communism, Lenin and Stalin, and the Communists wanted gun control because Communism requires totalitarianism and a police state to exist, and also requires a system where there are no basic rights and everyone has no choice but to obey whatever the state tells them to do. Left-wingers like the American Democrat party and UK's Labour need the people to be in a position where they're helpless and the government has unchallenged power over them, and guns offer people a chance to resist). Therefore, since the 2nd Amendment is there for people to be able to fight against the government, that means the police and military can't have any sort of gun the average citizen can't have.
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    (Original post by lbjohnson)
    You see, in the UK the government controls the people. Your government has full control over everyone and tells everyone what to do, and you can't do anything about it because the government has all the power and people have no power. But in America it's the other way around. Americans have guns, to make sure the politicians are kept in line.
    The UK people can still vote a government out of power if they want to. The current government did something that the people didn't agree with and people took to the streets in PEACEFULL protest. The government knew where people stood and if people decied then they will be kicked out at the next election. I highly doubt that if the government it something really bad in America that people would storm the street fireing guns because the government control the army who have better and bigger guns. If you think that the American people have more power over their government than the British people just because they have guns you are very much mistaken
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    (Original post by frost105)
    Yes your right psychic-all citizens of the UK get a gun because there is a chance that one day in the future there maybe a coup. In the meantime please accept that there maybe a few slight incidences of children taking their parenst guns into school to shoot their fellow students, increased hunting accidents, increased fights being solved with gun shots and your child blowing is face off cause he thought it was a toy.

    The ability to defend constitutional rights and liberties from politicians that want control, and keep politicians honest, is more important than safety.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    The UK people can still vote a government out of power if they want to.
    No, your left-wing authoritarian government is trying to get certain political parties banned...

    especially parties that disagree with authoritarian socialism
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    (Original post by Mr Moncal)
    I don't care if everyone in the country has a gun. What I don't understand is why it has to be an Ak-47 or an M16 or some other weapon that could easily be used to sweep a crowd of pedestrians.
    Because the 2nd Amendment is specifically for the purpose of defending our rights from the government, and so we need military level weapons.
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    (Original post by lbjohnson)
    No, your left-wing authoritarian government is trying to get certain political parties banned...

    especially parties that disagree with authoritarian socialism
    They aren't being banned though are they. They still have the right to stand in elections ect. Many people including myself wish they there weren't a political party but they are and they will continue to be. Nobody is banning them.
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    In the UK, go to any CCF in a school, and you are likely to find full bore operating SA 80s (though modified for single shots, ie not automatic) including any ammo (our school contains at least 2 rack of weapons), in a safe in a separate building, covered by only a metal door, that can easily be picked by any determined person.

    Though there will be alarms linked to the police, I don't relish the prospect of having to check out a place where the thiefs who are obviously well prepared to steal guns, are armed with stolen SA 80s.

    This is the ideal way in aquiring guns, much cheaper than the black market.
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    (Original post by lbjohnson)
    Americans have the right to bear arms, in the event that they must take up arms against their goverment in order to protect their personal freedoms and liberties from the government. I don't see how the ability to defend individual liberties and personal freedoms could ever be outdated.

    You see, in the UK the government controls the people. Your government has full control over everyone and tells everyone what to do, and you can't do anything about it because the government has all the power and people have no power. But in America it's the other way around. Americans have guns, to make sure the politicians are kept in line.
    amen brother
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    (Original post by lbjohnson)
    The ability to defend constitutional rights and liberties from politicians that want control, and keep politicians honest, is more important than safety.
    Your crazy!

    I cant think of anything more important than keepiing my family safe not keeping politicians in control! I trust my government, I love the country I live in and I would not feel safe knowing that any person in my street could own a gun.

    And how does dun ownership keep your politicians controlled by 275, 000, 000 people?
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    (Original post by frost105)
    Your crazy!

    I cant think of anything more important than keepiing my family safe not keeping politicians in control! I trust my government, I love the country I live in and I would not feel safe knowing that any person in my street could own a gun.

    And how does dun ownership keep your politicians controlled by 275, 000, 000 people?

    as long as americans own guns, jews in govt know they can never control us, unlike you in the uk who spout off jew liberal crap daily, as all you have to do is look at this board and see the pathetic shape you are in, especially mentally.
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    (Original post by Mr Moncal)
    As some of you might know, tonight at midnight our ban on the sale and purchase of automatic assault rifles expires. The house of Representatives has declared that they will not try to renew the ban. This is because they fear what the NRA will say about them on election day. 70% of Americans want the ban reissued. So the discussion is, do you think the ban should be allowed to expire? Is the "right to bear arms" outdated?
    Why would any normal civilian need to by an automatic assault rifle? That's terrifying.
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    (Original post by lbjohnson)
    Americans have the right to bear arms, in the event that they must take up arms against their goverment in order to protect their personal freedoms and liberties from the government. I don't see how the ability to defend individual liberties and personal freedoms could ever be outdated.
    Americans have guns, to make sure the politicians are kept in line.
    Are you kidding me? Do you think a bunch of backwoods hick guerillas in fatigues can take on the American army, the most powerful military force in the world? Please.
 
 
 
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