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Despairing at the Labour Party

I have always supported the Labour Party as I have seen them as the lesser evil. However with the latest news relating to self-identifying women I don’t know that I can support them any longer.

People may see this move as progressive but providing women with absolutely no place in which to stick up for their biological and reproductive rights without being infiltrated by men seems the most backward possible move in all time.

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I am always curious that it is always men that have an issue with this and it is always an issue with men declaring themselves as women and not the other way round. Why is that? Do you feel threatened by men who declare themselves as women? Do you feel it is an affront to your own masculinity that some men declare they are not as red blooded as you?

Women however, generally don't have a problem with trans women in the same way that women tend not to have a problem with gay men. Women tend to feel safer around trans women and gay men because they are less likely to be hit on. Is that why you find trans women a bit undesirable? Because women don't feel threatened by them?

And yet your argument is about protecting these poor defenceless creatures. It is all a bit pathetic really as a man coming out as a woman has absolutely no impact on your life whatsoever. Yet you would discriminate against them.
ngl, this sounds high key transphobic
Reply 3
Original post by ByEeek
I am always curious that it is always men that have an issue with this and it is always an issue with men declaring themselves as women and not the other way round. Why is that? Do you feel threatened by men who declare themselves as women? Do you feel it is an affront to your own masculinity that some men declare they are not as red blooded as you?

Women however, generally don't have a problem with trans women in the same way that women tend not to have a problem with gay men. Women tend to feel safer around trans women and gay men because they are less likely to be hit on. Is that why you find trans women a bit undesirable? Because women don't feel threatened by them?

And yet your argument is about protecting these poor defenceless creatures. It is all a bit pathetic really as a man coming out as a woman has absolutely no impact on your life whatsoever. Yet you would discriminate against them.


I’m not a man.

I don’t have a problem with men who identify as women or vice versa, but they still aren’t women. And for people to be able to legally self identify as as what gender they please is a clear erosion of women’s rights.
Original post by del1rious
I’m not a man.

I don’t have a problem with men who identify as women or vice versa, but they still aren’t women. And for people to be able to legally self identify as as what gender they please is a clear erosion of women’s rights.


True. But why does it matter if a bloke wants to be called a Mrs or a Miss? We obsess about gender but does it really matter if someone is an M or an F? Just about every application form, website and everything else seems to want to know if you are M or F. Why? What difference does it make? Why not just call someone by the name they wish to be called whether that be Bob, Beth, Dot Com or NoName, it really doesn't matter.
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 5
Original post by Starlight22
ngl, this sounds high key transphobic


Was waiting for that. Think about it properly. What will happen when women who have potentially been abused can no longer request a female doctor without the weight of the law coming down on them. I also advise you to look into cotton ceiling theory if you still think that self ID is this wonderful progressive idea.

The trans movement is being quite frankly hijacked by men who are just using it as another means to control women and demonstrate their entitlement to their rights and their bodies
Reply 6
Original post by ByEeek
True. But why does it matter if a bloke wants to be called a Mrs or a Miss? We obsess about gender but does it really matter if someone is an M or an F? Just about every application form, website and everything else seems to want to know if you are M or F. Why? What difference does it make? Why not just call someone by the name they wish to be called whether that be Bob, Beth, Dot Com or NoName, it really doesn't matter.


I have no problem with that!!
I do have a problem with what will happen to our society and more importantly women’s rights in our society if self-ID becomes a thing. See my earlier post
"providing women with absolutely no place in which to stick up for their biological and reproductive rights"

OP I don't think you know what your talking about no-one is forcing anyone to become trans it is the persons decision and choice so they do not need to stick up for their reproductive rigths children don't go off and say i am a women now they amke an educated decision and decide themselves.
Original post by del1rious
I have no problem with that!!
I do have a problem with what will happen to our society and more importantly women’s rights in our society if self-ID becomes a thing. See my earlier post


Self ID already is a thing and has been for almost 8 years now. And it isn't an issue for womens rights at all. If women want equality, why should you deny equality to people who don't quite fit in the women's box or the men's box? If everyone is equal there is no issue at all. No one's rights are being degraded.
Original post by ByEeek
True. But why does it matter if a bloke wants to be called a Mrs or a Miss? We obsess about gender but does it really matter if someone is an M or an F? Just about every application form, website and everything else seems to want to know if you are M or F. Why? What difference does it make? Why not just call someone by the name they wish to be called whether that be Bob, Beth, Dot Com or NoName, it really doesn't matter.


What about race/ gender/ disability/ age should people be free to change these on a whim?
Original post by Davij038
What about race/ gender/ disability/ age should people be free to change these on a whim?


Myth number one. Trans people feel the way they feel just as gay people do. It isn't a choice. Did you choose your gender or is it just how you feel. There is no difference for a trans person or gay person. It isn't a choice.

Only those wishing to put trans people in a box are suggesting it is a choice. It is not.
Reply 11
Original post by ByEeek
Myth number one. Trans people feel the way they feel just as gay people do. It isn't a choice. Did you choose your gender or is it just how you feel. There is no difference for a trans person or gay person. It isn't a choice.

Only those wishing to put trans people in a box are suggesting it is a choice. It is not.


So if I had an inherent belief that I was a cat (not a choice) would that make me a cat?
Reply 12
Original post by ByEeek
Myth number one. Trans people feel the way they feel just as gay people do. It isn't a choice. Did you choose your gender or is it just how you feel. There is no difference for a trans person or gay person. It isn't a choice.

Only those wishing to put trans people in a box are suggesting it is a choice. It is not.


And also choice or not, what a lot of people tend to ignore is that not all trans people fit into the box of struggling with how uncomfortable they feel in their own body, some are simply fetishists.
Well no matter how you’ve come to the conclusion, welcome to the great majority that sees that Labour has, currently, and probably will lack any sort of cohesion to their structure and will claim to be ‘progressive’ in order to syphon votes of those who can’t see through their ploy. I hope you enjoy your stay in this skeptic group 😀
Original post by del1rious
So if I had an inherent belief that I was a cat (not a choice) would that make me a cat?


Yes. Except you would be the only person in the world to have this issue. There are millions of people who don't identify as a 100% male or female. Some identify with no gender at all.

How do you feel about gay people? Is that a choice?
Reply 15
Original post by ByEeek
Self ID already is a thing and has been for almost 8 years now. And it isn't an issue for womens rights at all. If women want equality, why should you deny equality to people who don't quite fit in the women's box or the men's box? If everyone is equal there is no issue at all. No one's rights are being degraded.


So I assume you take the stance that we shouldn’t have segregated spaces based on sex? Men and women should compete against each other in sports and that’s fine, share prison cells and that’s fine and share rape crisis centres because that’s fine?
Reply 16
Original post by CountBrandenburg
Well no matter how you’ve come to the conclusion, welcome to the great majority that sees that Labour has, currently, and probably will lack any sort of cohesion to their structure and will claim to be ‘progressive’ in order to syphon votes of those who can’t see through their ploy. I hope you enjoy your stay in this skeptic group 😀


Thank you very much!!! I hope to stick around for a while!!!
Disgrace that they charged more for white people
Reply 18


Oh Christ, that’s another nail in the coffin then. So much for, “for the many”
Original post by del1rious
So I assume you take the stance that we shouldn’t have segregated spaces based on sex? Men and women should compete against each other in sports and that’s fine, share prison cells and that’s fine and share rape crisis centres because that’s fine?


You're over thinking it. And you are also confusing biological sex with gender identity (the gender you feel) which is also different gender expression (how you wish to present yourself).

You are no doubt going to dismiss this as all mumbo jumbo, but I would simply say what is the problem? Something you haven't actually stated.

https://www.hrc.org/resources/sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-terminology-and-definitions

The thing you need to accept is that there is no concept of "normal". There never was. It was only society that dictated how people had to present themselves. Thankfully that is coming to an end.

You didn't answer my question about gays - is that a choice in your opinion?
(edited 6 years ago)

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