Electoral Reforms To Bring Democracy Back To The UK Watch

ScottishBrexitor
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http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...emocracy-back/
Nigel Farage says it's time the UK reinvigorated its democracy and made several, simple reforms.

With Westminster dogged by sexual harassment claims, with calls for the House of Lords to be scrapped and with suggestions that the voting age should drop to 16 - what’s the one reform you would make to our political system?
Nigel Farage asked his listeners for a single change and suggested three of his own.

The LBC presenter argued Westminster required a "complete overhaul." He said the right of recall would improve accountability and allow constituents to bring misbehaving MPs home to a by-election.

Secondly, Nigel asked for a new electoral system to improve proportional representation and break apart the duopoly in Westminster. Later in the show he suggested AV+ as a possible model.

Finally the former UKIP leader called for open primaries. He argued that the current political parties did not produce a broad enough spectrum of candidates from all walks of British life - open primaries would fix this.

Thoughts on his electoral reforms? I'm in favour of all three. I'd also like to have more electoral reforms such as an elected Senate replacing the Lords and a federal model for the UK.
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Davij038
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First step would just be making the Tory party more democratic like labour

Ambivalent about PR but yes if we can’t get the above.

Loathe the idea of an elected HoL. Just put some limit on it eg 300 and cut out the chaff.
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ScottishBrexitor
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(Original post by Davij038)
First step would just be making the Tory party more democratic like labour

Ambivalent about PR but yes if we can’t get the above.

Loathe the idea of an elected HoL. Just put some limit on it eg 300 and cut out the chaff.
Thoughts on the Conservatives having an open primaries system for their leadership elections like the Republicans and Democrats do for their Presidential nominee? It may be too "American" for some but I think it would be good banter and democracy and an entertaining cluster****. Just imagine a three month tory leadership campaign consisting of Anna Soubry, Peter Bone, Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris Johnson, Phillip Davies, Nicky Morgan fighting to win the Conservative leadership in a similar style to the Republican nomination race of 2016
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bob072
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(Original post by ScottishBrexitor)
Thoughts on the Conservatives having an open primaries system for their leadership elections like the Republicans and Democrats do for their Presidential nominee? It may be too "American" for some but I think it would be good banter and democracy and an entertaining cluster****. Just imagine a three month tory leadership campaign consisting of Anna Soubry, Peter Bone, Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris Johnson, Phillip Davies, Nicky Morgan fighting to win the Conservative leadership in a similar style to the Republican nomination race of 2016
Sounds far better to me than doing backroom deals with other MPs and donors to get chosen.
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The PoliticalGuy
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A more republican model, we should abolish the monarchy, it is 2018 we don't need Un-elected bureaucrats stealing tax payers money and contributing nothing to the political system.

Primaries would support the idea of a Republican model so I would gladly support it.

Proportional Representation I agree with as much I despise of UKIP and how they would gain more seats in parliament it is more Fair for the Country and Politics.

I agree with you on the point of getting rid of the House of Lords but wouldn't call it the senate we would just be plain the copying the Americans, they usually do that to us.
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ScottishBrexitor
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(Original post by The PoliticalGuy)
A more republican model, we should abolish the monarchy, it is 2018 we don't need Un-elected bureaucrats stealing tax payers money and contributing nothing to the political system.

Primaries would support the idea of a Republican model so I would gladly support it.

Proportional Representation I agree with as much I despise of UKIP and how they would gain more seats in parliament it is more Fair for the Country and Politics.

I agree with you on the point of getting rid of the House of Lords but wouldn't call it the senate we would just be plain the copying the Americans, they usually do that to us.
I wouldn't think it is. Canada, Australia and god know where else also call their second chamber "The Senate", it's not like the US own the name. I can't think of another name for it really bar House of Senators tbh and "House of Lords" I think has become too toxic to be the name of a reformed second chamber.

I agree with your points about the Monarchy though I can't see pensioners accepting that to change. What I hope is more reforms to the Monarchy such as Parliament setting their annual budget, security costs transparent and accountable, royal visits incorporated into the Monarchy budget and not local councils, all members of the royal household subjected to the same UK taxes and laws as us plebs, Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall revenue going to the treasury etc.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by ScottishBrexitor)
Secondly, Nigel asked for a new electoral system to improve proportional representation and break apart the duopoly in Westminster. Later in the show he suggested AV+ as a possible model.
Since when was it democratic to keep voting for the same thing? We had a vote on AV in 2010 or was it 2011 thanks to the Lib Dems. It was overwhelmingly voted down despite my own desires to see it happen.

Citizens of Manchester also voted in a referendum against having an elected mayor. We now have an elected mayor.

The point, is that holding referendums is frankly pointless as gobby politicians like Farage selectively forget what people might have voted for in the past will do their own thing regardless. I can see many Brexiteers being very disappointed by what ends up being Brexit.

The problem with referendums is they ask very simple yes / no questions on complex issues. People voted Yes to leave the EU. The deal we are going to get will be very much in the "Maybe" camp.
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ScottishBrexitor
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Since when was it democratic to keep voting for the same thing? We had a vote on AV in 2010 or was it 2011 thanks to the Lib Dems. It was overwhelmingly voted down despite my own desires to see it happen.
But we didn't get a referendum on AV Plus or any other PR method of voting like STV or AMS.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by ScottishBrexitor)
But we didn't get a referendum on AV Plus or any other PR method of voting like STV or AMS.
And that isn't ever going to happen. Mainly because no one really understand what they, what they would mean or how they would change politics. If if people don't understand something they won't vote for it.

Brexit only went though because just about everyone who voted leave wasn't voting to leave the EU. They were voting to lower immigration, kick the establishment and just about every other proxy that was in need to a vent.
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bob072
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(Original post by ByEeek)
And that isn't ever going to happen. Mainly because no one really understand what they, what they would mean or how they would change politics. If if people don't understand something they won't vote for it.

Brexit only went though because just about everyone who voted leave wasn't voting to leave the EU. They were voting to lower immigration, kick the establishment and just about every other proxy that was in need to a vent.

Well in Wales and Scotland they already have AMS and in Northern Ireland STV. It's not hard to understand and the electorate aren't stupid, ultimately it would mean every vote counts while now if you live in a safe seat you may as well not turn up.

But it won't happen, because the politicians who got into government by a system that suits them won't want to change to something fairer in case they lose their jobs.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by bob072)
Well in Wales and Scotland they already have AMS and in Northern Ireland STV. It's not hard to understand and the electorate aren't stupid, ultimately it would mean every vote counts while now if you live in a safe seat you may as well not turn up.
I agree. But Scotland and Wales have only had parliaments for the last 20 years or so. When you are starting something from scratch it is easy to make good decisions about things like voting.

By contrast, FPTP in the UK as a whole is as old as democracy itself. Not only does that hang over the issue, but there are more stakeholders in the system who stand to lose than all the nobodys standing around the edges of society (Nigel Farage for example) hoping to take advantage of the system.

Proportional representation is an odd thing. On the one had we are proportionally represented, but the minorities often end up as king makers. I am sure there are few in the UK who feel comfortable that the balance of power is held by a handful of politicians in Northern Ireland who have some rather extreme values.
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bob072
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(Original post by ByEeek)
By contrast, FPTP in the UK as a whole is as old as democracy itself. Not only does that hang over the issue, but there are more stakeholders in the system who stand to lose than all the nobodys standing around the edges of society (Nigel Farage for example) hoping to take advantage of the system.
It would be fairer and smaller parties wouldn't have to overturn a consensus that no one believes possible to have representation. Whether you personally like Nigel Farage or not, his party in 2015 got 13% of the vote but 0.15% of MPs, also the Green party and Liberal Democrats didn't win seats reflecting their support.



Proportional representation is an odd thing. On the one had we are proportionally represented, but the minorities often end up as king makers. I am sure there are few in the UK who feel comfortable that the balance of power is held by a handful of politicians in Northern Ireland who have some rather extreme values.
Not really. We have a minority Conservative government who negotiated certain things with the DUP in return for support. It's not a great system but apparently we aren't allowed to discuss alternatives as today my thread was rejected just for mentioning someone running for Congress (Michael Allman) with other ideas. But I do find it amusing when Labour members/fanatics protest how disgusting it is giving £1.5bn extra to spend in Northern Ireland when they want to spend hundreds of billions on absolutely everything they think of!
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ByEeek
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(Original post by bob072)
Not really. We have a minority Conservative government who negotiated certain things with the DUP in return for support. It's not a great system but apparently we aren't allowed to discuss alternatives as today my thread was rejected just for mentioning someone running for Congress (Michael Allman) with other ideas. But I do find it amusing when Labour members/fanatics protest how disgusting it is giving £1.5bn extra to spend in Northern Ireland when they want to spend hundreds of billions on absolutely everything they think of!
I agree with all you have said. But in a proportional system, minority governments are the norm and in effect, it is the minority parties that hold the power. You could argue that this is a good thing and that many of our ills are born from powerful governments, but when you get powerful progressive governments like Labour under Tony Blair (until he went to war), really good things can happen and did.
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