Applied Software Engineering 2018 Watch

Leosam
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#1
Anybody chose Cardiff's new Applied software engineering as their first choice ? I would like to also hear from some current student opinions

I got an offer for it, the main reason why I applied is because I really like the syllabus, hands on practical and creating software immediately to real world problems approach. I do have a few bugging questions :

1. Being a new course and all how well is it after this few years, accreditation by the BCS soon ? Industry recognized ? How different is it truly to the traditional CS (Math heavy, theory , OS, hardware knowledge etc...)

2. Hows the constant travel to Newport like for lessons as their new building is still in Newport. Is it a hassle to travel from accommodations and main campus ? Can you even enjoy find time/chances to use the Unis library facilities etc .. This is the main point that makes me hesitant of accepting the offer still.

3. Internship, job prospects, examination ?
0
reply
Puddles the Monkey
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#2
Report 1 year ago
#2
Hi - sorry you haven't had a response to this yet. I'm just going to bump the thread in the hope that someone sees this and can help
0
reply
Mlow
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#3
Report 1 year ago
#3
I just finished 1st year going into 2nd year

1. Accredited very soon should be this year, Very strong industry links in the area(Loads of company's want grads and most people that applied for placements got them), the course is very practical some theory but mainly projects.

2. Travel is 3 days a week not that bad easy to get there and they pay for it. Not a hassle if u r organised but some places take longer than others. Theyre getting a nice new buiulding as well. Plenty of time to use uni facilities

3. LOTS OF INTERN AND JOB OPPURTUNITIES. and most of the exams are group projects which are marked but theres one written exam in winter.

feel free to shoot me more questions
0
reply
ThePhoenixLament
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#4
Report 1 year ago
#4
My housemate just graduated and was walking into jobs before he had even left. He had way more experience than CompSci graduates for programming jobs and the practical skills to match it (e.g. client meetings, project work).
He was in Newport for 3 days a week and this decreased a bit in the last year. He didn't find it an issue at all as his travel costs were paid for and the building was very close to the station. He used all the other uni facilities the same as we did.
Work experience is part of the degree. He didn't really do any internship type things but he still didn't struggle for work afterwards. There were plenty of opportunities available to him though, some of which the staff put him forward for.
0
reply
mantika23
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#5
Report 1 year ago
#5
(Original post by Mlow)
I just finished 1st year going into 2nd year

1. Accredited very soon should be this year, Very strong industry links in the area(Loads of company's want grads and most people that applied for placements got them), the course is very practical some theory but mainly projects.

2. Travel is 3 days a week not that bad easy to get there and they pay for it. Not a hassle if u r organised but some places take longer than others. Theyre getting a nice new buiulding as well. Plenty of time to use uni facilities

3. LOTS OF INTERN AND JOB OPPURTUNITIES. and most of the exams are group projects which are marked but theres one written exam in winter.

feel free to shoot me more questions
I’ve looked at the modules and they don’t even teach important fundamentals such as data structures or algorithms. You don’t even learn about trees, tries, sorting algorithms which are all needed if you want to pass a coding interview at any major company like Facebook or google.
0
reply
Mlow
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#6
Report 1 year ago
#6
(Original post by mantika23)
I’ve looked at the modules and they don’t even teach important fundamentals such as data structures or algorithms. You don’t even learn about trees, tries, sorting algorithms which are all needed if you want to pass a coding interview at any major company like Facebook or google.
It's cause the course is primarily for people with no experience in software engineering(in my opinion) if you want to learn those the university will support you in the doing so in your free time. I know computer science study algorithms and data structures so that may be more your course but I think you can switch courses after the first year
0
reply
winterscoming
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#7
Report 1 year ago
#7
(Original post by mantika23)
I’ve looked at the modules and they don’t even teach important fundamentals such as data structures or algorithms. You don’t even learn about trees, tries, sorting algorithms which are all needed if you want to pass a coding interview at any major company like Facebook or google.
That's because it's a vocational degree aimed at meeting the demands of businesses who want graduate software engineers capable of working in a commercial/enterprise environment. It's not a computer science course, so you're comparing apples with oranges here. By the same token, most computer science courses miss out on important software engineering fundamentals such as git, debugging, automated testing, continuous integration, agile development, collaborative working in team projects and software versioning.

Understanding data structures and algorithms isn't fundamental when it comes to languages like Java, C#. or JavaScript because those tend to be built-in features which are available as part of the language or its standard libraries, or maybe a downloadable package. There are a lot of computer science topics which might be useful for software engineers to know as they gain more experience, but something like that isn't fundamental in a junior or graduate job.

These days, very few businesses bother to ask about trees or sort algorithms in programming interviews because they're usually not relevant to the job unless it's for a C programming job, or there's a legacy codebase from the 1980s where that sort of thing might crop up in real code.

Instead they ask technical questions about solving problems in code to discover whether the candidate can deliver high-quality, robust, working software. Given a choice between a junior programmer who has the technical skills and a junior programmer who has a strong academic background, they'll tend to prioritise the ones who just have the technical skills for the job.

Some companies like Google and Facebook may do a lot more work in cutting-edge fields such as AI and machine learning, so they will inevitably prefer to hire computer scientists who have a stronger theoretical background, and they might forego the candidates who have expertise in a lot of mainstream software engineering technologies in favour of candidates with a mathematical background - its important to recognise these are different skillsets for different disciplines.
1
reply
Lakura225
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#8
Report 1 year ago
#8
"By the same token, most computer science courses miss out on important software engineering fundamentals such as git, debugging, automated testing, continuous integration, agile development, collaborative working in team projects and software versioning."

Literally covered in second year, all of it, every bit. . .
0
reply
winterscoming
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9
Report 1 year ago
#9
(Original post by Lakura225)
"By the same token, most computer science courses miss out on important software engineering fundamentals such as git, debugging, automated testing, continuous integration, agile development, collaborative working in team projects and software versioning."

Literally covered in second year, all of it, every bit. . .
"most computer science courses.." (And I mean physically learning to apply the skills in a project, and how to use the tools, not just learning about the concepts from a case study in a module about professional software development and/or a written exam)

Meaning that it's uncommon for most computer science graduates from most universities (who didn't do a software engineering work placement) to turn up to a software engineering interview having any idea how to use tools like JUnit, Selenium, Octopus, TeamCity, Jenkins, etc. Most simply would have no idea where to start in getting them set up with a new project or how to use them.

Of course, the reason those skills aren't covered is that computer science degrees focus on computers, logic and problem solving, rather than the commercial or teamworking issues and using specific tools. The subject itself is supposed to be more general than that.
0
reply
mantika23
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#10
Report 1 year ago
#10
(Original post by winterscoming)
"most computer science courses.." (And I mean physically learning to apply the skills in a project, and how to use the tools, not just learning about the concepts from a case study in a module about professional software development and/or a written exam)

Meaning that it's uncommon for most computer science graduates from most universities (who didn't do a software engineering work placement) to turn up to a software engineering interview having any idea how to use tools like JUnit, Selenium, Octopus, TeamCity, Jenkins, etc. Most simply would have no idea where to start in getting them set up with a new project or how to use them.

Of course, the reason those skills aren't covered is that computer science degrees focus on computers, logic and problem solving, rather than the commercial or teamworking issues and using specific tools. The subject itself is supposed to be more general than that.

yes but these softwares and tools can be learned by anyone who is intelligent enough to get a degree in computer science. The main difference between the two courses is that CS teaches you the fundamentals, the core concepts of computing which you can use to pick up any language or tool. On the other hand, this applied course only teaches you a few specific tools, languages, which is probably good enough for most startups/small companies but nowhere enough for any serious major company.

Remember, Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
0
reply
winterscoming
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#11
Report 1 year ago
#11
(Original post by mantika23)
yes but these softwares and tools can be learned by anyone who is intelligent enough to get a degree in computer science. The main difference between the two courses is that CS teaches you the fundamentals, the core concepts of computing which you can use to pick up any language or tool. On the other hand, this applied course only teaches you a few specific tools, languages, which is probably good enough for most startups/small companies but nowhere enough for any serious major company.

Remember, Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
'This applied course only teaches you a few specific tools' - I strongly doubt that. What are you basing that upon?

I don't know what the precise content of each module on the course is, but that's certainly not what the spec looks like to me - it looks as if it teaches software engineering as a complete discipline by focusing on the relevant skills. The core skills in software engineering are about managing complexity of software, adapting to changing requirements, teamwork, building robust, reliable, secure, scalable and maintainable systems, UX/usability, troubleshooting/fault-finding, and maintaining code quality for other developers.

That's a completely different discipline to computer science. Companies hiring graduates into Java, C# or web development roles don't ask graduates about computer science topics such as discrete maths, data structures, hardware architecture or compiler theory, which are the kinds of topics a computer science degree would focus on heavily - those areas just aren't relevant to that kind of work except in a small handful companies involved in some very niche work, although that's what you'd get on most pure computer science courses.

There's nothing wrong with teaching academic topics on an academic course like computer science, but for a course which is deliberately aimed at the skills which help graduates target a specific career, there's a huge difference between those project-based vocational skills versus theoretical understanding.

Having the theoretical understanding of those topics is nice, but maths and computer theory doesn't put graduates in anywhere near as strong a position for a software engineering career compared with spending 3 years building up solid experience by working in projects where they've had to learn hands-on skills and put those things into practice. To put it bluntly, it's the type of career where somebody's academic background is mostly irrelevant to their chances at success - and that includes working in big companies as well as small/medium ones.
0
reply
Lakura225
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#12
Report 1 year ago
#12
(Original post by winterscoming)
'This applied course only teaches you a few specific tools' - I strongly doubt that. What are you basing that upon?

I don't know what the precise content of each module on the course is, but that's certainly not what the spec looks like to me - it looks as if it teaches software engineering as a complete discipline by focusing on the relevant skills. The core skills in software engineering are about managing complexity of software, adapting to changing requirements, teamwork, building robust, reliable, secure, scalable and maintainable systems, UX/usability, troubleshooting/fault-finding, and maintaining code quality for other developers.

That's a completely different discipline to computer science. Companies hiring graduates into Java, C# or web development roles don't ask graduates about computer science topics such as discrete maths, data structures, hardware architecture or compiler theory, which are the kinds of topics a computer science degree would focus on heavily - those areas just aren't relevant to that kind of work except in a small handful companies involved in some very niche work, although that's what you'd get on most pure computer science courses.

There's nothing wrong with teaching academic topics on an academic course like computer science, but for a course which is deliberately aimed at the skills which help graduates target a specific career, there's a huge difference between those project-based vocational skills versus theoretical understanding.

Having the theoretical understanding of those topics is nice, but maths and computer theory doesn't put graduates in anywhere near as strong a position for a software engineering career compared with spending 3 years building up solid experience by working in projects where they've had to learn hands-on skills and put those things into practice. To put it bluntly, it's the type of career where somebody's academic background is mostly irrelevant to their chances at success - and that includes working in big companies as well as small/medium ones.
Everything you described has been covered in my two years so far in computer science, the main difference from my experience and knowing people doing software engineering is that computer science has fewer practical assignments overall but covers largely the same topics with a SLIGHTLY lesser focus on project management. Hell I had a year long group project that revolved around all those concepts. . .stop trying to say one is better than the other when you clearly don't understand that it's more about one is better suited to a certain learning style than the other.
0
reply
winterscoming
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#13
Report 1 year ago
#13
(Original post by Lakura225)
Everything you described has been covered in my two years so far in computer science, the main difference from my experience and knowing people doing software engineering is that computer science has fewer practical assignments overall but covers largely the same topics with a SLIGHTLY lesser focus on project management. Hell I had a year long group project that revolved around all those concepts. . .stop trying to say one is better than the other when you clearly don't understand that it's more about one is better suited to a certain learning style than the other.
You seem to be posting cross-purpose about the content of your particular course. I was replying to the other post which is talking about theoretical computer science modules being important for employment in software engineering.

It sounds like the computer science course you're on isn't a theoretical course at all but much closer to a software engineering course. Pure computer science courses tend not to cover those topics at all. It's not about one being better than the other, it's about different disciplines for people who have different interests. Pure Computer science tends to be far more theoretical and mathematical. The name of the course can mean several different things..

The point about topics like discrete maths and other pure computer science topics is that they aren't at all necessary for most software engineering careers. Employers hiring graduates will prioritise practical skills and first-hand experience in putting those skills into practice. Most computer science graduates who have spent 3 years studying a mathematical/theoretical course won't have taken modules covering those skills in depth nor been given any significant amounts of software engineering project work.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

- Have you considered distance learning for any of your qualifications?

Yes! I'm on a distance learning course right now (7)
9.46%
Yes, I've thought about it but haven't signed up yet (8)
10.81%
No, but maybe I will look into it (19)
25.68%
No and I wouldn't consider it (40)
54.05%

Watched Threads

View All
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise