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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    But they are clearly not sufficient because they are riddled with faults, conclusively proving Allah is a fictitious being.
    I'm not seeking the answer from a biological perspective. That's where you are faltering, you know where I am heading but somewhat avoiding the aspect of conception and all. I now ask you a 'silly' question sir, where does the genetics derive from?



    Nope, I'm happy to learn if biologist do not indoctrinate individuals into thinking that conception is only formed because of the sperm and the egg. It goes way beyond that sir. I'm not rejecting the evidence they have provided wholeheartedly, it doesn't add up to the Quraan. That's all. Nothing about indoctrination there.

    Faults? I ask you to provide me with evidence as such you fail to do so every time. I at least say that I cannot provide you with proof of Allah himself however I can provide you with the Holy Quraan. That's sufficent enough for mankind.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    I'm not seeking the answer from a biological perspective. That's where you are faltering, you know where I am heading but somewhat avoiding the aspect of conception and all. I now ask you a 'silly' question sir, where does the genetics derive from?
    I'm not avoiding anything. Conception is entirely biological, plain and simple. There is no evidence for anything supernatural about it and you have failed to provide any evidence for this.

    Genes, DNA and RNA, evolved from small organic molecules and there's a lot of work in this field. Either way, nothing divine involved.

    Nope, I'm happy to learn if biologist do not indoctrinate individuals into thinking that conception is only formed because of the sperm and the egg. It goes way beyond that sir. I'm not rejecting the evidence they have provided wholeheartedly, it doesn't add up to the Quraan. That's all. Nothing about indoctrination there.
    But it's not indoctrination because there's empirical evidence for it, you're just refusing to consider it because it doesn't agree with your religious worldview. Conception is just the fusion of a sperm and egg cell. It does not go "beyond that" and you have again failed to provide evidence for this.

    Faults? I ask you to provide me with evidence as such you fail to do so every time. I at least say that I cannot provide you with proof of Allah himself however I can provide you with the Holy Quraan. That's sufficent enough for mankind.
    Not true, over our many discussions I have provided you with many Quranic errors, especially scientific ones, as have many other critics of Islam on this site. I have read the Quran which just proves to me, beyond all doubt, that Allah is an invention of 7th century Arabs who wanted to exert social control.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Not true, over our many discussions I have provided you with many Quranic errors, especially scientific ones, as have many other critics of Islam on this site. I have read the Quran which just proves to me, beyond all doubt, that Allah is an invention of 7th century Arabs who wanted to exert social control.
    You said you have read the Holy Quraan. Surely you must have come across the following verse:

    "It is he who has created you from dust then from a sperm drop, then from a leech like clot then does he get you out into the light as a child then let's you grow old and reach you're age, full of strength then allows you to become old though some will not reach this stage, and then let's you reach a term appointed in order that you may learn wisdom. Surah Ghafir Ayah 67.

    Now, I will delve into Tafsir Ibn Kathir and science to explain the above verse I have quoted.

    Turaab of which defination is dust is in relation to Hadhrat Adam(AS). Hence the word Nutfah which is a drop of fluid however there are three contextual usage of this in the Holy Quraan which I am not going to go into.

    Back to my point about Nutfah, Allah created Hadhrat Adam(AS) first then he created his offspring from semen of worthless water.

    In terms of modern science, it has now throughly offered an explanation as to the evolution of human creation all the way down to the intricacies which the human eye could not 'see' beforehand.

    So many times in the Holy Quraan, Allah mentions to the way he created an individual. What's noteworthy of this is that when these verses were revealed individuals had limit as to how much they knew in this field, however compared to today it's quite prevelant how much that has expanded over time.

    An interesting analogy I want to make here is the word Nutfah, with the word Al- Khisaam which means those who dispute explicitly.

    As mentioned in Surah Baqarah where this word is in explanation to man. What's intriguing here is why Allah decided to amalgamate the two words Nutfah and Al-Khisaam together? This is because man disputes about Allah (This thread being a prime example) as well as disputing about being correct and religion holistically.

    Nonetheless this sort of debate and debacle as such it's motive has to do with the adversary of portraying oneself in the limelight or what's famously known as the صراط مستقیم which is the straight path, rather than establishing the truth itself to eliminate the falsehood. Now why have I mentioned all this 'word salad'. See next paragraph(if you're not exhausted already!).

    Allah denotes that he created man from nothing but a sperm which to be honest, is not visible and therefore he the creation turns into an individual who argues about the very being, that formed him from this mininute bit of fluid and what does he do? Disputes Allah. This is to avoid submitting to him the creator who not only created him, but also blessed him with abundunt sustenance on earth in essence so that he grows and is grateful for intellect, sight and hearing.

    As stated in the Holy Quraan, "Verily we have created man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to test him. Therefore Allah gave him sight and Hearing. Surah Al-Insaan verse 2.

    I hope that clears it up a bit InshaAllah.

    Allah knows best.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    This is a non-sequitur, dying doesn't necessarily mean something isn't God. God, if it exists, could very easily choose to incarnate in a biological body which is then subject to death. Also, when did Hitler claim to be God, I've never heard of that before?



    Well that's where you're mistaken because the gods of those religions are very different. Christians believe God is trinitarian and that he took on physical form, Muslims don't, ergo different deities.



    This simply isn't true. The embryonic development described by the Quran is full of errors: incorrectly describes embryo as blood-clot, incorrectly compares it to a leech, gets the development order wrong, gives the incorrect anatomical location of semen production and completely fails to mention the female egg. Clearly the work of 7th century Arabs who had plagiarised previous work on embryology done by the Ancient Greeks and thus contained many of the same errors. An omniscient god would not have made such childish, imprecise comparisons and completely forgotten to mention the ovum.
    Homeboy i ain't a scholar, but i'm quite sure if there were mistakes then the actual scholars would speak up with evidence against it. We can quite obviously bring in the greek stuff, but the thing is that the Prophet Muhammad didn't know how to read nor write and during his preaching he was in arabia not another country...

    Btw from the Islamic point of view Jews before the creation of the religion after them (Christians) were basically the true believers, then after Christians we got Islam as the final religion for the true believers.

    Just so you know, Hitler made his own religion due to how he liked that people were loyal to the religion they followed, so in many aspects you can essentially say he was the God of his religion, if not; prophet (note: i haven't researched to deeply into this)
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    You said you have read the Holy Quraan. Surely you must have come across the following verse:

    "It is he who has created you from dust then from a sperm drop, then from a leech like clot then does he get you out into the light as a child then let's you grow old and reach you're age, full of strength then allows you to become old though some will not reach this stage, and then let's you reach a term appointed in order that you may learn wisdom. Surah Ghafir Ayah 67.

    Now, I will delve into Tafsir Ibn Kathir and science to explain the above verse I have quoted.

    Turaab of which defination is dust is in relation to Hadhrat Adam(AS). Hence the word Nutfah which is a drop of fluid however there are three contextual usage of this in the Holy Quraan which I am not going to go into.

    Back to my point about Nutfah, Allah created Hadhrat Adam(AS) first then he created his offspring from semen of worthless water.

    In terms of modern science, it has now throughly offered an explanation as to the evolution of human creation all the way down to the intricacies which the human eye could not 'see' beforehand.

    So many times in the Holy Quraan, Allah mentions to the way he created an individual. What's noteworthy of this is that when these verses were revealed individuals had limit as to how much they knew in this field, however compared to today it's quite prevelant how much that has expanded over time.

    An interesting analogy I want to make here is the word Nutfah, with the word Al- Khisaam which means those who dispute explicitly.

    As mentioned in Surah Baqarah where this word is in explanation to man. What's intriguing here is why Allah decided to amalgamate the two words Nutfah and Al-Khisaam together? This is because man disputes about Allah (This thread being a prime example) as well as disputing about being correct and religion holistically.

    Nonetheless this sort of debate and debacle as such it's motive has to do with the adversary of portraying oneself in the limelight or what's famously known as the صراط مستقیم which is the straight path, rather than establishing the truth itself to eliminate the falsehood. Now why have I mentioned all this 'word salad'. See next paragraph(if you're not exhausted already!).

    Allah denotes that he created man from nothing but a sperm which to be honest, is not visible and therefore he the creation turns into an individual who argues about the very being, that formed him from this mininute bit of fluid and what does he do? Disputes Allah. This is to avoid submitting to him the creator who not only created him, but also blessed him with abundunt sustenance on earth in essence so that he grows and is grateful for intellect, sight and hearing.

    As stated in the Holy Quraan, "Verily we have created man from a drop of mingled sperm, in order to test him. Therefore Allah gave him sight and Hearing. Surah Al-Insaan verse 2.

    I hope that clears it up a bit InshaAllah.

    Allah knows best.
    Yes, I have read Quranic embryology and it’s wrong! The embryo is nothing like a blood clot or a leech, those are very naive, inaccurate comparisons that an all-knowing creator would not have chosen. The Quran also gets the location of semen production wrong and fails to mention the female ovum so clearly the work of 7th century man. It’s not a thorough explanation of embryology by a long stretch.
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    (Original post by Jang Gwangnam)
    Homeboy i ain't a scholar, but i'm quite sure if there were mistakes then the actual scholars would speak up with evidence against it. We can quite obviously bring in the greek stuff, but the thing is that the Prophet Muhammad didn't know how to read nor write and during his preaching he was in arabia not another country...

    Btw from the Islamic point of view Jews before the creation of the religion after them (Christians) were basically the true believers, then after Christians we got Islam as the final religion for the true believers.

    Just so you know, Hitler made his own religion due to how he liked that people were loyal to the religion they followed, so in many aspects you can essentially say he was the God of his religion, if not; prophet (note: i haven't researched to deeply into this)
    Not necessarily. Islamic scholars are Muslims so it’s unlikely they’re going to be able to see errors due to indoctrination and cognitive dissonance. Non-Muslims have identified the many mistakes in the Quran, it’s absurd to expect Muslims to admit there are any as to do so would be them admitting Islam is false.

    It’s actually not known that Muhammad was illiterate and in fact quite likely he wasn’t given that he was an agent for an important merchant business. Even if he was, he would have come into contact with many educated and knowledgeable people who could have spoken to him about Greek science. Knowledge spreads, you think people in Arabia didn’t know anything about what happened in other countries?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Yes, I have read Quranic embryology and it’s wrong! The embryo is nothing like a blood clot or a leech, those are very naive, inaccurate comparisons that an all-knowing creator would not have chosen. The Quran also gets the location of semen production wrong and fails to mention the female ovum so clearly the work of 7th century man. It’s not a thorough explanation of embryology by a long stretch.
    That's not all. I've merely given you a synopsis to which I will add to later on InshaAllah.

    How does the Holy Quraan get the location of semen wrong?

    It is an explanation, maybe not to scientific standards however one can still make out in through detail how they were created by Allah.

    By the ways you do remind me of the word Khisaam. Those that dispute how they were created. I'm not stating what I am saying is the truth nonetheless all that was stated above was not my opinion, but that of the knowledge Allah had granted me with. You don't need to believe in such to know how one was formed into such a being.

    It's a miracle when delved in deep even biologist would not be comprehensible to offer such explanations.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    That's not all. I've merely given you a synopsis to which I will add to later on InshaAllah.

    How does the Holy Quraan get the location of semen wrong?

    It is an explanation, maybe not to scientific standards however one can still make out in through detail how they were created by Allah.

    By the ways you do remind me of the word Khisaam. Those that dispute how they were created. I'm not stating what I am saying is the truth nonetheless all that was stated above was not my opinion, but that of the knowledge Allah had granted me with. You don't need to believe in such to know how one was formed into such a being.

    It's a miracle when delved in deep even biologist would not be comprehensible to offer such explanations.
    Doesn’t matter that’s it’s not all, one error or inaccuracy is all it takes to show the Quran wasn’t divinely authored and you were kind enough to provide it.

    It says sperm is made between the backbone and ribs, which is false.

    Once again, Quranic embryology is not a miracle at all. The only miracle is that people are so indoctrinated as to think it’s a correct, thorough explanation.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Doesn’t matter that’s it’s not all, one error or inaccuracy is all it takes to show the Quran wasn’t divinely authored and you were kind enough to provide it.

    It says sperm is made between the backbone and ribs, which is false.

    Once again, Quranic embryology is not a miracle at all. The only miracle is that people are so indoctrinated as to think it’s a correct, thorough explanation.
    Okay, one can 'dispute' that the Holy Quraan is not full of errors. Which is true, I know you won't accept it and fair enough sir, just know that because of you're way of interpretating the Holy Quraan can be refuted against the 'apologists'.

    Ah is that David woods thinking you're going with?
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    Okay, one can 'dispute' that the Holy Quraan is not full of errors. Which is true, I know you won't accept it and fair enough sir, just know that because of you're way of interpretating the Holy Quraan can be refuted against the 'apologists'.

    Ah is that David woods thinking you're going with?
    But the errors are there for all to see. It’s only Muslims who can’t and refuse to see them because if they did their identity would come crashing down.

    Never heard of David Woods, but I assume from the context that he’s someone else who has highlighted Quranic errors.
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    (Original post by alrarity09)
    still its more than nothing but okay
    Of the countless possible deities it is just negligible.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    Did you ever stop to wonder why you are even interested in the name or term God?

    When you were born you have absolutely no knowledge of a God

    So when and where did this interest in this very specific "thing" occur?

    Let me answer

    Other humans, told you about this entity called God
    Other humans gave you stories about this entity
    Other humans have tried to limit and frame your life experience by confining it to this very specific concept of "God" and all that goes with it

    Why would they do that?

    Because by limiting people's thoughts, asking them to replace thinking and rationality with blind faith and compliance, they are able to control.

    Don't be a puppet.

    Stop worrying about whether this thing they call "God" exists or not. It's a man-made concept.

    Look at the world around you. Look at Nature for Nature is where you came from and what you are a part of. Understand how Nature operates and you will come to understand who and what you are, which is paramount.

    TEMET NOSCE

    Never let others limit you with specific concepts.

    If you are referring to the God in the Bible then know that the Bible is NOT meant to be read or taken literally. It is a heavily edited and censored creation of lots of separate documents and works and it contains many secrets hidden cryptically, allegorically and in code.
    The text in the Bible is merely padding to contain all those secrets.

    Never take a literal interpretation of the Bible. It makes no sense anyway if you do that, it is riddled with 100s if not 1000s of outright contradictions and the "God" described there is a vengeful entity, who engages in genocide, ethnic cleansing, killing and maiming of children and other atrocious behaviours.

    The questions you need to ask:

    Who am I?
    What am I?
    How do I avoid death?
    What does my body lack that causes me to age and get ill?
    What does Nature offer to help me?

    and so on

    Religion and other brainwashing merchants seek to distract you from this crucial search. It seeks to limit your thinking by directing it down singular paths, just like your question. Too many people are obsessed with "does God exist". It's a diversion, a distraction nothing more.
    The truth is out there, you only have to Seek to Find.

    But first we have to put aside all the conditioning and brainwashing we received from other humans throughout our childhood and into adulthood and be prepared to think wider and without those chains.

    TEMET NOSCE

    Free Your Mind
    inb4 this is just a 14 yr old who has read a chapter of Nietzsche
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    (Original post by MiszshorTeea786)
    Well Sir. He also said "the more I study Science the more I believe in god".
    He meant a pantheistic god in which god is the universe.

    So I think you need to get your facts right!
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    A simple challenge for the debating posters here.

    Mankind wishes to preserve its posterity should a planetary catastrophe occur such as ice age, or super volcanoes, flooding etc.

    The government has agreed what textual information needs to be preserved and it amounts to 2000 A4 pages worth of text.

    Your task is to come up with a suitable way to preserve and protect this vital text in the event of global catastrophe.

    Do you have any suggestions?
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    God does exist. I know because I constantly experience his existence.

    And obviously a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.
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    I personally believe in Islam, in which I believe in Allah. However many people have their own beliefs and I respect that they do.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    A simple challenge for the debating posters here.

    Mankind wishes to preserve its posterity should a planetary catastrophe occur such as ice age, or super volcanoes, flooding etc.

    The government has agreed what textual information needs to be preserved and it amounts to 2000 A4 pages worth of text.

    Your task is to come up with a suitable way to preserve and protect this vital text in the event of global catastrophe.

    Do you have any suggestions?
    Laminate it.
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    (Original post by will'o'wisp2)
    if you do it because you're scared what kind of god is it then?


    i too myself am not a rock hard atheist either but i do accept the possible notion of one existing if there's enough sufficient reliable evidence to prove it
    If you're scared then God is a dictator. Like I think.

    Also, I'm talking about the christian bible. Not the possibility of a higher entity existing.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    A simple challenge for the debating posters here.

    Mankind wishes to preserve its posterity should a planetary catastrophe occur such as ice age, or super volcanoes, flooding etc.

    The government has agreed what textual information needs to be preserved and it amounts to 2000 A4 pages worth of text.

    Your task is to come up with a suitable way to preserve and protect this vital text in the event of global catastrophe.

    Do you have any suggestions?
    Put it in a computer.
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    (Original post by Unkilled)
    Put it in a computer.
    Do you imagine a computer would survive a global catastrophe?

    Think bigger

    For example man has already carved the faces of 4 US presidents into Mount Rushmore.

    What about placing something on the moon etc
 
 
 
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