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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    Do you imagine a computer would survive a global catastrophe?

    Think bigger

    For example man has already carved the faces of 4 US presidents into Mount Rushmore.

    What about placing something on the moon etc
    Keep in mind that this is a thread about God, not preservation of objects.
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    (Original post by shayanwaseem123)
    I personally believe in Islam, in which I believe in Allah. However many people have their own beliefs and I respect that they do.
    That makes you more reasonable than Allah.
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    (Original post by Unkilled)
    Keep in mind that this is a thread about God, not preservation of objects.
    It's very much in my mind and I am surprised you can't see where I am going with this. You see this thread, and indeed all these repeated threads whittling and whining about whether God exists or not are all founded on one thing . . . . the Bible.

    Were it not for the Bible, and the machinations of men, we wouldn't even be asking about "God". We might be asking where we came from and how everything started, but to frame those questions and limit them by purely talking about this "God" is rather stupid but that is something that man has done.

    It is man that has created religion and the stories that go with it. Thus to go back to my earlier point.

    Imagine. . . .

    Here's this "God", the very God that with the power of his will, made the universe to come into existence, made light, darkness, the Earth, the seas, every living creature, blah blah blah.

    And he's sitting there thinking,

    "Right, I need to set down my Word, the absolute truth for all humans to see and take on board. Now . . . . what medium will I choose to ensure that my Word perseveres and isn't destroyed by some earthquake or volcano or hurricane or tsunami . . . or indeed flood ? Ah yes flood, must not forget that one, I was planning to have a few of those ! So, what to do? What medium will best survive throughout the 1000s of years to come . . ?

    Ah I know !!! Papyrus/paper. . . . yep that'll do it !!!"

    Anyone who can not see the utter absurdity of this situation really needs their head examining. This is a God who could etch his written word into the side of mountains, or create a monolith with it written on or who could carve it into the face of the moon and so on. And we are to believe that he actually chose to use pen and paper for this purpose?!!!

    It's farcical.

    The Bible, the various works that make it up, are man made works, nothing more. God does NOT need man to do his work for him, if he did, he would not be Omnipotent (all powerful).

    Once a rational mind is capable of seeing this kind of nonsense and breaking through the childhood programming and brainwashing it has received, then the mind can appraise these works in a different way and ultimately come to see that they are man made works and were written by scholars and sages to conceal certain secrets, certain truths. Those secrets are definitely there in the Bible, written cryptically, allegorically and in code. They are also in the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, in the works of Taoism and Rosicrucianism and to be honest all over the place.

    But the Churches are NOT going to tell you about those real secrets. They will instead peddle the literal interpretation of the Bible, which makes absolutely no sense and which contradicts itself at every turn. In so doing they demand of you conformity, they demand that your life be lived in accordance with a set of behaviours which they have invented.It's all pretty much a lie.

    Religion is false.

    The Bible IS useful, because it contains those hidden secrets but it's only useful if someone reveals those secrets to you. The travesty is we have a world fighting against itself because of the differing religions. Christianity vs Islam for example. Yet the truth is that those very same life secrets have been encoded in all these works but ordinary people are not being told about them.

    So the truth is that whether Christian or Muslim or Bhuddist or Taoist or Hindu, we should really be all sharing those same life secrets. Those secrets were clearly encoded and spread across the world in different directions.

    Man has corrupted that entire thing, crafted the Bible from a heavily censored and heavily edited view of the real underlying works and built religion on it.

    People have been duped. People are still being duped.

    People are still being told to read the Bible literally, to accept literally the words and stories within it, which is frankly farcical.

    The words, the text are nothing but padding to conceal the real truths which lie within, hidden in code or written cryptically.

    Seek and you will find.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    It's very much in my mind and I am surprised you can't see where I am going with this. You see this thread, and indeed all these repeated threads whittling and whining about whether God exists or not are all founded on one thing . . . . the Bible.

    Were it not for the Bible, and the machinations of men, we wouldn't even be asking about "God". We might be asking where we came from and how everything started, but to frame those questions and limit them by purely talking about this "God" is rather stupid but that is something that man has done.

    It is man that has created religion and the stories that go with it. Thus to go back to my earlier point.

    Imagine. . . .

    Here's this "God", the very God that with the power of his will, made the universe to come into existence, made light, darkness, the Earth, the seas, every living creature, blah blah blah.

    And he's sitting there thinking,

    "Right, I need to set down my Word, the absolute truth for all humans to see and take on board. Now . . . . what medium will I choose to ensure that my Word perseveres and isn't destroyed by some earthquake or volcano or hurricane or tsunami . . . or indeed flood ? Ah yes flood, must not forget that one, I was planning to have a few of those ! So, what to do? What medium will best survive throughout the 1000s of years to come . . ?

    Ah I know !!! Papyrus/paper. . . . yep that'll do it !!!"

    Anyone who can not see the utter absurdity of this situation really needs their head examining. This is a God who could etch his written word into the side of mountains, or create a monolith with it written on or who could carve it into the face of the moon and so on. And we are to believe that he actually chose to use pen and paper for this purpose?!!!

    It's farcical.

    The Bible, the various works that make it up, are man made works, nothing more. God does NOT need man to do his work for him, if he did, he would not be Omnipotent (all powerful).

    Once a rational mind is capable of seeing this kind of nonsense and breaking through the childhood programming and brainwashing it has received, then the mind can appraise these works in a different way and ultimately come to see that they are man made works and were written by scholars and sages to conceal certain secrets, certain truths. Those secrets are definitely there in the Bible, written cryptically, allegorically and in code. They are also in the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, in the works of Taoism and Rosicrucianism and to be honest all over the place.

    But the Churches are NOT going to tell you about those real secrets. They will instead peddle the literal interpretation of the Bible, which makes absolutely no sense and which contradicts itself at every turn. In so doing they demand of you conformity, they demand that your life be lived in accordance with a set of behaviours which they have invented.It's all pretty much a lie.

    Religion is false.

    The Bible IS useful, because it contains those hidden secrets but it's only useful if someone reveals those secrets to you. The travesty is we have a world fighting against itself because of the differing religions. Christianity vs Islam for example. Yet the truth is that those very same life secrets have been encoded in all these works but ordinary people are not being told about them.

    So the truth is that whether Christian or Muslim or Bhuddist or Taoist or Hindu, we should really be all sharing those same life secrets. Those secrets were clearly encoded and spread across the world in different directions.

    Man has corrupted that entire thing, crafted the Bible from a heavily censored and heavily edited view of the real underlying works and built religion on it.

    People have been duped. People are still being duped.

    People are still being told to read the Bible literally, to accept literally the words and stories within it, which is frankly farcical.

    The words, the text are nothing but padding to conceal the real truths which lie within, hidden in code or written cryptically.

    Seek and you will find.
    There is nothing wrong with discussion, mate. Although, I do think your points about these questions are true. If it weren't for religion, we wouldn't be worrying about God. Perhaps we should be talking about politics. You see, if it weren't for a lot of things in history these subjects wouldn't be topical. But that's no reason not to talk about them. I just want you to know that everything you've said in this quote I agree with. I just don't want to deny other people the dialogue and shut myself off to opposing views because I've already decided what I think. And just to make some points of my own:

    I think that the pretense of religion is absurd, as you may have noticed. It is about restraining the now so that the when can be better. This is stupid. As Lao Tzu said himself: "If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present."

    It is built upon: "If you do this now, you get a reward then". It robs humans of their innate agency. You can do whatever you want, you are free and your sins are yours to account for.

    I started this thread because I honestly wanted to know the reasons why people would believe such absurd dogma as "there is a God." Is the cornerstone of religion. Religion is inherently anti-dialogue. Therefore, I started this thread to give religion dialogue.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    It's very much in my mind and I am surprised you can't see where I am going with this. You see this thread, and indeed all these repeated threads whittling and whining about whether God exists or not are all founded on one thing . . . . the Bible.

    Were it not for the Bible, and the machinations of men, we wouldn't even be asking about "God". We might be asking where we came from and how everything started, but to frame those questions and limit them by purely talking about this "God" is rather stupid but that is something that man has done.

    It is man that has created religion and the stories that go with it. Thus to go back to my earlier point.

    Imagine. . . .

    Here's this "God", the very God that with the power of his will, made the universe to come into existence, made light, darkness, the Earth, the seas, every living creature, blah blah blah.

    And he's sitting there thinking,

    "Right, I need to set down my Word, the absolute truth for all humans to see and take on board. Now . . . . what medium will I choose to ensure that my Word perseveres and isn't destroyed by some earthquake or volcano or hurricane or tsunami . . . or indeed flood ? Ah yes flood, must not forget that one, I was planning to have a few of those ! So, what to do? What medium will best survive throughout the 1000s of years to come . . ?

    Ah I know !!! Papyrus/paper. . . . yep that'll do it !!!"

    Anyone who can not see the utter absurdity of this situation really needs their head examining. This is a God who could etch his written word into the side of mountains, or create a monolith with it written on or who could carve it into the face of the moon and so on. And we are to believe that he actually chose to use pen and paper for this purpose?!!!

    It's farcical.

    The Bible, the various works that make it up, are man made works, nothing more. God does NOT need man to do his work for him, if he did, he would not be Omnipotent (all powerful).

    Once a rational mind is capable of seeing this kind of nonsense and breaking through the childhood programming and brainwashing it has received, then the mind can appraise these works in a different way and ultimately come to see that they are man made works and were written by scholars and sages to conceal certain secrets, certain truths. Those secrets are definitely there in the Bible, written cryptically, allegorically and in code. They are also in the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, in the works of Taoism and Rosicrucianism and to be honest all over the place.

    But the Churches are NOT going to tell you about those real secrets. They will instead peddle the literal interpretation of the Bible, which makes absolutely no sense and which contradicts itself at every turn. In so doing they demand of you conformity, they demand that your life be lived in accordance with a set of behaviours which they have invented.It's all pretty much a lie.

    Religion is false.

    The Bible IS useful, because it contains those hidden secrets but it's only useful if someone reveals those secrets to you. The travesty is we have a world fighting against itself because of the differing religions. Christianity vs Islam for example. Yet the truth is that those very same life secrets have been encoded in all these works but ordinary people are not being told about them.

    So the truth is that whether Christian or Muslim or Bhuddist or Taoist or Hindu, we should really be all sharing those same life secrets. Those secrets were clearly encoded and spread across the world in different directions.

    Man has corrupted that entire thing, crafted the Bible from a heavily censored and heavily edited view of the real underlying works and built religion on it.

    People have been duped. People are still being duped.

    People are still being told to read the Bible literally, to accept literally the words and stories within it, which is frankly farcical.

    The words, the text are nothing but padding to conceal the real truths which lie within, hidden in code or written cryptically.

    Seek and you will find.
    lol youve gone completely loony. its also really really funny how your saying the bible and religion is to dupe ppl etc but then youre crazy enough to believe the bs about there being secrets and codes in the bible. you believe in the fricking philosophers stone and that there are immortal ppl out there for crying out loud! your just as brainwashed and gullible as the religious ppl :lol:
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    It's very much in my mind and I am surprised you can't see where I am going with this. You see this thread, and indeed all these repeated threads whittling and whining about whether God exists or not are all founded on one thing . . . . the Bible.

    Were it not for the Bible, and the machinations of men, we wouldn't even be asking about "God". We might be asking where we came from and how everything started, but to frame those questions and limit them by purely talking about this "God" is rather stupid but that is something that man has done.

    It is man that has created religion and the stories that go with it. Thus to go back to my earlier point.

    Imagine. . . .

    Here's this "God", the very God that with the power of his will, made the universe to come into existence, made light, darkness, the Earth, the seas, every living creature, blah blah blah.

    And he's sitting there thinking,

    "Right, I need to set down my Word, the absolute truth for all humans to see and take on board. Now . . . . what medium will I choose to ensure that my Word perseveres and isn't destroyed by some earthquake or volcano or hurricane or tsunami . . . or indeed flood ? Ah yes flood, must not forget that one, I was planning to have a few of those ! So, what to do? What medium will best survive throughout the 1000s of years to come . . ?

    Ah I know !!! Papyrus/paper. . . . yep that'll do it !!!"

    Anyone who can not see the utter absurdity of this situation really needs their head examining. This is a God who could etch his written word into the side of mountains, or create a monolith with it written on or who could carve it into the face of the moon and so on. And we are to believe that he actually chose to use pen and paper for this purpose?!!!

    It's farcical.

    The Bible, the various works that make it up, are man made works, nothing more. God does NOT need man to do his work for him, if he did, he would not be Omnipotent (all powerful).

    Once a rational mind is capable of seeing this kind of nonsense and breaking through the childhood programming and brainwashing it has received, then the mind can appraise these works in a different way and ultimately come to see that they are man made works and were written by scholars and sages to conceal certain secrets, certain truths. Those secrets are definitely there in the Bible, written cryptically, allegorically and in code. They are also in the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, in the works of Taoism and Rosicrucianism and to be honest all over the place.

    But the Churches are NOT going to tell you about those real secrets. They will instead peddle the literal interpretation of the Bible, which makes absolutely no sense and which contradicts itself at every turn. In so doing they demand of you conformity, they demand that your life be lived in accordance with a set of behaviours which they have invented.It's all pretty much a lie.

    Religion is false.

    The Bible IS useful, because it contains those hidden secrets but it's only useful if someone reveals those secrets to you. The travesty is we have a world fighting against itself because of the differing religions. Christianity vs Islam for example. Yet the truth is that those very same life secrets have been encoded in all these works but ordinary people are not being told about them.

    So the truth is that whether Christian or Muslim or Bhuddist or Taoist or Hindu, we should really be all sharing those same life secrets. Those secrets were clearly encoded and spread across the world in different directions.

    Man has corrupted that entire thing, crafted the Bible from a heavily censored and heavily edited view of the real underlying works and built religion on it.

    People have been duped. People are still being duped.

    People are still being told to read the Bible literally, to accept literally the words and stories within it, which is frankly farcical.

    The words, the text are nothing but padding to conceal the real truths which lie within, hidden in code or written cryptically.

    Seek and you will find.
    TL;DR 😴
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    TL;DR 😴
    Please try putting your arguments more concisely, PilgrimOfTruth.
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    (Original post by Unkilled)
    Please try putting your arguments more concisely, PilgrimOfTruth.
    If a student can't concentrate and read a page of text at this stage of life then frankly they will struggle going forward, not just in terms of studying and grades but indeed in acquiring a decent job. TOWIE and Gogglebox exist for people with such attention spans imo.
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    I ****ing love Gogglebox.
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    Yeah, I believe that God exists, and that his only begotten son Jesus Christ died for my sins. I believe that the Holy Bible and the story of Jesus Christ attests to the existence of a higher power.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    If a student can't concentrate and read a page of text at this stage of life then frankly they will struggle going forward, not just in terms of studying and grades but indeed in acquiring a decent job. TOWIE and Gogglebox exist for people with such attention spans imo.
    Point taken.
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    Firm agnostic here! I'm loving the book Homo Deus at the moment, and was wondering if anyone could recommend any good reads with a more theological perspective?
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    (Original post by Golden State)
    Yeah, I believe that God exists, and that his only begotten son Jesus Christ died for my sins. I believe that the Holy Bible and the story of Jesus Christ attests to the existence of a higher power.
    They say that light can also blind.
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    (Original post by louisat12)
    Firm agnostic here! I'm loving the book Homo Deus at the moment, and was wondering if anyone could recommend any good reads with a more theological perspective?
    I've never read any of these books. Despite this, I do still think I have a pretty good grasp of these kind of arguments. However, I would recommend "The Age of Reason", by Thomas Paine.
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    It would be just as relevant to make a thread asking if Santa Claus exists.

    It still boggles me how, in the 21st century, with all the information available, there can still be people who take 2000-year-old stories even remotely seriously.
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    (Original post by Thomazo)
    It would be just as relevant to make a thread asking if Santa Claus exists.

    It still boggles me how, in the 21st century, with all the information available, there can still be people who take 2000-year-old stories even remotely seriously.
    Yep.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    My parents! Seriously Miszy, you need to brush up on basic biology if you didn’t know that a male body creates sperm and the female body makes eggs.



    If you are making claims he exists then the burden is on you to show it. In absence of that it is perfectly reasonable to not believe in a being unsupported by evidence.

    Signs of this world, what are you talking about?



    Of course it does. To admit there are errors in the Quran would be to admit that Islam is false and that Allah doesn’t exist. And as being Muslim is often a huge part of someone’s identity they’re very unlikely to do this. And as I said, indoctrination has already impaired their critical thinking abilities and ensured that their ability to leave the faith as unlikely.



    Of course they’re indoctrinated into their faith, just as the overwhelming majority of all religionists.
    who created adam the first man on earth then?
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    okay now let's try reasoning logically.
    first of all what is God defined as?
    god is the person or thing or object that caused this universe to existence.
    now our universe could be made in many ways like the big bang theory.
    they also say that God just existed and can never die.....now we have a law of conversation of energy saying "energy can neither be created nor destroyed but can only be transformed from one form to another" so this makes it more likely for God to be an energy. Now it doesn't matter if god is there or not. what matters is Does it have any effect or controls over our lives? and I personally think No! so there's no point of worshipping it or wasting resources on it since everyone does this to improve their lives but now their God has no control over their lives then there's no point of wasting time and resources on it.I personally don't believe if god exists but if someone told me that we should worship it then I would like to compare the relationship between their God and them vs the relationship between a robot and his maker.
    when someone makes a robot and he finds out that there r mistakes in the robot then he can not do anythung until the robot is active.he first has to deactivate the robot or switch it off then make changes and test again.so if they believe in God then God makes them and finds faults in them but God cant rectify those faults while you are alive and that's y you die like the robot is switched off and then your God rectifies those mistakes and srnd you back on earth so this shows clearly that God has no control over ur life while u r alive so u shouldn't waste time and resources on it. thanks
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    (Original post by brainmaster)
    okay now let's try reasoning logically.
    first of all what is God defined as?
    god is the person or thing or object that caused this universe to existence.
    now our universe could be made in many ways like the big bang theory.
    they also say that God just existed and can never die.....now we have a law of conversation of energy saying "energy can neither be created nor destroyed but can only be transformed from one form to another" so this makes it more likely for God to be an energy. Now it doesn't matter if god is there or not. what matters is Does it have any effect or controls over our lives? and I personally think No! so there's no point of worshipping it or wasting resources on it since everyone does this to improve their lives but now their God has no control over their lives then there's no point of wasting time and resources on it.I personally don't believe if god exists but if someone told me that we should worship it then I would like to compare the relationship between their God and them vs the relationship between a robot and his maker.
    when someone makes a robot and he finds out that there r mistakes in the robot then he can not do anythung until the robot is active.he first has to deactivate the robot or switch it off then make changes and test again.so if they believe in God then God makes them and finds faults in them but God cant rectify those faults while you are alive and that's y you die like the robot is switched off and then your God rectifies those mistakes and srnd you back on earth so this shows clearly that God has no control over ur life while u r alive so u shouldn't waste time and resources on it. thanks
    In other words the universe exists. Nice to know.
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