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Why do women want gender equality in the workplace, but not in dating? watch

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    (Original post by snowman77)
    What??? Women are the ones who play all the games. Sadly, women are the choosers, so they can mess guys around as much as they want and still have plenty of options available. The only time guys can mess women around are if they are very rich/high status/good looking - very few men fit into these categories.

    Anecdotal evidence, but there are guys I know have been messed around a ton by women. Especially on online dating. Women do not make their intentions clear and it can be several months down the line before you find out she isn't into you.

    Whereas all the guys I know make their intentions very clear from the outset. Generally speaking, men are logical, women are driven by emotion. Which is why men do not play these stupid games and want to know clearly where they stand, but women do play these silly games.
    And you've met every single woman and every single man to know this is true? I don't play games and I've met a few men who do. I made my intentions clear to him from day one and he didn't. Does that mean I can tar all men with the same brush?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    For goodness sake. You agree with murder so you can’t think that it’s wrong
    Oh you are talking about the death penalty? That is a completely different story here.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Oh you are talking about the death penalty? That is a completely different story here.
    You say that everything is completely different when you’re being contradictory. Bottom line is that it’s still murder.
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    You say that everything is completely different when you’re being contradictory. Bottom line is that it’s still murder.
    Murder of a murderer? Nobody is committing murder. The state is taking the life of someone who killed another person.
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    (Original post by snowman77)
    This is what I don't understand about the modern day gender equality/feminism movement. They want equality in some areas, but other areas they are happy for things to stay the same as long as they receive the benefit.

    Women want equal treatment in the workplace with their male colleagues. They want equal pay (FWIW the gender pay gap is a myth - same job for same hours get paid the same, otherwise it's illegal), they don't want to experience sexual harassment in the workplace (what about all the false accusations which ruin men's careers?), they want the same opportunities men have, they want equal opportunities for promotion (despite many of them taking time off for maternity leave).

    This is all fair enough. Except they don't want equality in dating. Men are still expected to:

    - ask the woman out and face possible rejection (women might give subtle hints, but under no circumstances will they ask the man out - that is "his job"
    - pay for the first date (and possible subsequent dates as well)
    - propose to the woman
    - treat her with meals/gifts
    - hold open the door for her
    - give up his coat if she's cold, so he can freeze (but never the other way around)
    - put the majority of effort into sex (this is centered around pleasing the woman - the man's enjoyment is always assumed)
    - be manly and dominant, never show any weak emotions, keep his problems bottled up because otherwise it's "unmanly"
    - household chores must now be shared. Women no longer have to do all the cooking and cleaning, it's shared equally between men, because otherwise it's gender discrimination/oppression. Despite the fact men are still seen as the primary breadwinner in the household and a man without a job is a virtual disaster.


    So back to the original question: Why do women want gender equality in the workplace (and indeed many other areas), but not in dating? I'm interested to hear to views of men, women and any feminists.
    But it isn't exactly easy for women either. I can hear you protesting but hear me out. While I don't agree with all those cultural norms we are often told that we would be "taking away a man's prerogative" if we ask him out, pay for dates, or give him our coat. I don't know about anyone else but personally I'm often warned against "emasculating a man", told to be "feminine" and so on. (What can I say? I am a feminist but my family are not exactly or if they are they go in for "equal but different"). In fact, it can be really difficult to navigate through all that as someone who wants equality for both. As for household chores, that is fair as long as everything else is done equally but I can see your point. About men not showing emotion, I personally would always prefer that he did rather than keep it in himself. In short, there's the whole fear of being seen as bossy or arrogant or something by doing any of the things you say it is unfair men have to do but not women.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Murder of a murderer? Nobody is committing murder. The state is taking the life of someone who killed another person.
    Irrespective of what they’ve done, it’s still the termination of a persons life. You said that murder is wrong, yet you condone it.
    Do you think that it’s logical for someone to be pro choice but anti death penalty?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Irrespective of what they’ve done, it’s still the termination of a persons life. You said that murder is wrong, yet you condone it.
    Do you think that it’s logical for someone to be pro choice but anti death penalty?
    If this is about abortion, life begins when a baby is born, not at conception.
    In the early months of pregnancy, there are simply a ball of specialised cells in your uterus. Thus, it is not murder.
    When I use antibiotics or hand sanitizer, am I murdering bacteria cells, no. It is simply stopping cells from further dividing.
    It’s the same way in which we stop cancer cells from dividing - we take a drug. A tumour is a ball of cells is it not, and so is the product of conception. I’m not sure about you, but I do not consider a tumour la living person, so I can’t kill it.
    I understand your point of view, but it sounds like traditionalist, religious hogwash.

    Therefore, yes you can be pro-choice and be anti-death penalty. One is killing a ball of cells, the other is killing a human being.
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    (Original post by ellie154352)
    But it isn't exactly easy for women either. I can hear you protesting but hear me out. While I don't agree with all those cultural norms we are often told that we would be "taking away a man's prerogative" if we ask him out, pay for dates, or give him our coat. I don't know about anyone else but personally I'm often warned against "emasculating a man", told to be "feminine" and so on. (What can I say? I am a feminist but my family are not exactly or if they are they go in for "equal but different". In fact, it can be really difficult to navigate through all that as someone who wants equality for both. As for household chores, that is fair as long as everything else is done equally but I can see your point. About men not showing emotion, I personally would always prefer that he did rather than keep it in himself. In short, there's the whole fear of being seen as bossy or arrogant or something by doing any of the things you say it is unfair men have to do but not women.
    Forget your family or “society” for a moment.

    What do*you* want? Do you want a dude to pay and hold your coat, or do you want to split it?
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    (Original post by cherryred90s)
    Irrespective of what they’ve done, it’s still the termination of a persons life. You said that murder is wrong, yet you condone it.
    Do you think that it’s logical for someone to be pro choice but anti death penalty?
    I mostly see the death penalty as a deterrent than a solution. However, if someone with so much disregard for life decides fo kill another person, then they don’t deserve their own life.

    My point on the death penalty is to give real justice for the murdered victim, their family and community.

    My main view is for the respect for life. When someone does not respect life through committing murder or abortion, then their life must be taken from them.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    I mostly see the death penalty as a deterrent than a solution. However, if someone with so much disregard for life decides fo kill another person, then they don’t deserve their own life.

    My point on the death penalty is to give real justice for the murdered victim, their family and community.

    My main view is for the respect for life. When someone does not respect life through committing murder or abortion, then their life must be taken from them.
    Giving a 15 year old girl the death penalty for having an abortion is not respect for life.
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    Giving a 15 year old girl the death penalty for having an abortion is not respect for life.
    She did not respect the life of her unborn child. So we cannot respect her life. Besides, if she knew that she will be terminated, if she committed an abortion, i doubt she would want to do that.
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    so I see what you mean. Personally, I prefer to split it but I do think there is a societal issue around this as well. This was supposed to be a response to another reply but didn't work so oh well.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    She did not respect the life of her unborn child. So we cannot respect her life. Besides, if she knew that she will be terminated, if she committed an abortion, i doubt she would want to do that.


    tbh i did see stats a while back which showed the death penalty in america isn't actually a deterrent and does not reduce serious crime like murders.

    people still do dumb sh*t like murder another person in cold blood in just as high numbers compared to other states which don't have the death penalty.

    I was most surprised by this because personally speaking i'd be less likely to murder someone if i knew if caught i would receive the death penalty...
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    (Original post by ANM775)
    tbh i did see stats a while back which showed the death penalty in america isn't actually a deterrent and does not reduce serious crime like murders.

    people still do dumb sh*t like murder another person in cold blood in just as high numbers compared to other states which don't have the death penalty.

    I was most surprised by this because personally speaking i'd be less likely to murder someone if i knew if caught i would receive the death penalty...
    I think there are two types of individuals that commit such crimes. The first are the stone-cold killers, who don’t care about the consequences and kind of kill, in my opinion, for pleasure.

    The second are those who commit the crime in the spur of the moment. They were pushed too far and reacted badly.

    The death penalty as a deterrent is for the second group that enables people to think of the consequences of their actions before they commit them.

    The death penalty as a solution is for the first group that don’t belong in this world. They are more harm than good and will be better off, i think, dead.

    Many people around the world are deterred from committing crimes by the consequences, but there are some that will still do the crime regardless of the time in jail or the threat of death.
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    I cba to read back through all the comments in this thread to find out, but anyone know if someone's mentioned Hitler/the Nazis yet? It feels like this thread is starting to get to that sort of length.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    She did not respect the life of her unborn child. So we cannot respect her life. Besides, if she knew that she will be terminated, if she committed an abortion, i doubt she would want to do that.
    She's still a child in the eyes of the law. Can you seriously expect a child to raise a child? That 15 year old girl may have been raped. Why should she be punished for that?
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    (Original post by snowman77)
    What??? Women are the ones who play all the games. Sadly, women are the choosers, so they can mess guys around as much as they want and still have plenty of options available. The only time guys can mess women around are if they are very rich/high status/good looking - very few men fit into these categories.

    Anecdotal evidence, but there are guys I know have been messed around a ton by women. Especially on online dating. Women do not make their intentions clear and it can be several months down the line before you find out she isn't into you.

    Whereas all the guys I know make their intentions very clear from the outset. Generally speaking, men are logical, women are driven by emotion. Which is why men do not play these stupid games and want to know clearly where they stand, but women do play these silly games.
    Not all but majority of modern day men are '**** boys'. Then it's the men that run around complaining about women. Men need to up their game,women are getting tired of it all
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    She's still a child in the eyes of the law. Can you seriously expect a child to raise a child? That 15 year old girl may have been raped. Why should she be punished for that?
    Why do we bring up “what ifs”? We live in a society that normalises everything and tries to justify choices.

    I know this sounds horrible, but there are rape victims who go on to keep their babies. Why does she have to kill hers? The baby did not do any wrong to its mother, why kill it? There are services able and willing to support women in the case of rape.

    Personally, i don't think there is a situation that would warrant the death of a baby through abortion, except in the rare occassion of direct threat to the mother’s life due to medical complications during pregnancy. In such cases, there are some women that prefer the doctors save their child over them. True love at its best, imo.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    And you've met every single woman and every single man to know this is true? I don't play games and I've met a few men who do. I made my intentions clear to him from day one and he didn't. Does that mean I can tar all men with the same brush?
    This is the second time where you've said "not every woman this, not every woman that blah blah blah" and got offended because it doesn't apply to you personally. I'm saying most women are like this, of course not every single one. There are some exceptions of course, but they are few and far between. Think of all the women who've viewed this thread. It probably applies to them. And of course they will never say "yes I agree with you". However, you will get the one or two women who this doesn't apply to, being very vocal about it.

    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Not all but majority of modern day men are '**** boys'. Then it's the men that run around complaining about women. Men need to up their game,women are getting tired of it all
    You're missing the point. Women are almost always the choosers, so they can screw over guys as much as they want. The guys you're referring to are the 5% of men who have plenty of options available due to their status/looks/money. The other 95% have to suffer from women playing stupid games and messing them around.
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    That’s what I wonder all the time.
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