Which uni is better for a career in law/ Kings vs Nottingham vs Exeter Watch

Dianasolomonnn
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I've got offers to study Politics at the above universities and was wondering which one gives me the best chance of gaining a training contract at one of the prestigious Magic circle law firms. Any help would be appreciated!
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999tigger
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(Original post by Dianasolomonnn)
I've got offers to study Politics at the above universities and was wondering which one gives me the best chance of gaining a training contract at one of the prestigious Magic circle law firms. Any help would be appreciated!
They are all above average unis and quite close imo. Kings is probably the better known. I dont think it will make that much difference.
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J-SP
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(Original post by Dianasolomonnn)
I've got offers to study Politics at the above universities and was wondering which one gives me the best chance of gaining a training contract at one of the prestigious Magic circle law firms. Any help would be appreciated!
It really doesn’t work like that. You create your “chances” of securing a training contract, not the name of your institution on your degree certificate.
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LengmanSachs
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(Original post by J-SP)
It really doesn’t work like that. You create your “chances” of securing a training contract, not the name of your institution on your degree certificate.
That's not necessarily true I'm pretty sure you stand a higher chance of getting an interview if you attend certain universities.
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J-SP
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(Original post by LengmanSachs)
That's not necessarily true I'm pretty sure you stand a higher chance of getting an interview if you attend certain universities.
It’s not the university name that creates that greater chance.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by LengmanSachs)
That's not necessarily true I'm pretty sure you stand a higher chance of getting an interview if you attend certain universities.
Hey, if you don't know something, you are not compelled to guess and comment anyway. It is fine to just stay quiet.
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Varis
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In regards to both the comments above, I think there are two statements that sum it up.

1. If your chances of getting a training contract at any of the top City firms depended on your university pedigree, then you are not likely good enough to get a training contract at any top city firm, especially more so for a MC firm.

2. However, I have personally been to over 30+ firm events and I have seen a clear bias towards Oxbridge (Although this was more evident in US-firms rather than Non-US firms). This is because both universities attract a lot of unique events that the other universities just do not attract. Similarly, even the other top city firms that are non-US also do specific events for Oxbridge that are just not available in some of the other universities. (Example - Consider whether Clifford Chance does an event / presentation or just a open-day fast track scheme at 'X' university)

Moving onward from that discussion, Statement 1 still ultimately reigns as the more important premise that you should take when approaching your grind to get a training contract. It certainly is advantageous to have attended 'said' event with 'said' firm that only would have been available at 'said' university, but many of the applications are multifaceted and there are many ways in which you can leverage the other opportunities in your life and university to easily overcome that 'disadvantage'.

I personally would say that Kings has an advantage because it is in London and it makes travelling to firm events and open days less time-consuming and costly. Additionally, there are seminar / discussion events that normally would be out of the way for non-London universities.

I would say you have a lot of factors to consider when approaching universities. 1. Location 2. The strength of the university's law society 3. The strength of the university's careers services 4. The variety of university extracurricular activities such as societies, sports, etc. 5. The alumni strength 6. The Law Modules available (as some modules are certainly more interesting on a CV although not necessary to 'secure a TC'). 7. The social environment (Can you easily get elected to be on the committee? How hard is it to make friends / network and meet like-minded people that will help you?).

As JSP said earlier, you definitely make your own chances in the end of the day. But there are definitely advantages in being in 'said' university or society or doing 'said' subject over another, etc.

In terms of general rankings, Kings & Nottingham are close together and Exeter is a bit behind them. Because you are non-law, also consider whether there is a big Non-Law community that are interested in pursuing a law career as if you enter a university that ticks all the boxes but ultimately find yourself excluded due to the difficulty in getting involved, then it is going to be much tougher for you to benefit.
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J-SP
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The above post from Varis is very balanced and fair.

Oxbridge generally benefit from college level events which mean you get a relatively good ratio of student to firm representatives. You rarely get this elsewhere. This flows through every subsequent marketing and recruitment process - Oxbridge applications alone for most firms are much more numerous than every other uni, and that’s despite having a relatively moderately sized LLB cohort.

Some universities have particularly good ties with firms, but that isn’t limited to a very small number of top tier unis. For instance, QUB organise a tour of city firms each year (although this is for law students).

The point about non-law students is also very valid. For instance, Manchester used to not allow non-Law students to join their law society (think this might have changed now though).

I’m a bit rusty on how good the universities have been this year having not been out on campus this year, but none of the above universities are the best at converting non law grads to TCs. KCL probably has a higher number of non-law students interested in legal careers given their strength in humanities subjects and location.

All of the universities careers services and law societies are very similar in my view - all pretty good, but none are outstanding. Most city law firms will either work with, sponsor or advertise through all three fairly equally.
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Justme!
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I don't know if all of the people who commented above have links to the legal sector, but as a law graduate, my knowledge (based on personal experience and knowledge I've gained through attending events / talking to friends who are practising in the city) is that King's > the other universities that you have mentioned.

Nottingham may come relatively close, but still, there is no comparison between King's and Nottingham in my opinion. King's College London is an international powerhouse, particularly in Law (Humanities in general, but the Law department stands out), consistently wins "top employability" awards, is right round the corner from the City and throws a huge law fair every year that attracts over 70, hugely reputable law firms. It recently (approximately 2 years ago) won the "top legal research" award (ranking above all British universities, and even global powerhouses, such as Harvard Law). Its centre for transnational law is a powerhouse of research as well. Added to that, is the ability to cross register for classes at UCL / LSE, if anything that is of interest to you isn't covered / offered by King's.

Furthermore, I very much doubt (even though I'm speculating on this) the quality of the candidate pool is similar at Exeter, Nottingham, and King's. I'm sure a quick look at the average UCAS score of admitted students for King's Law School, Nottingham Law School, and Exeter Law school will reveal the differences (not saying A-Levels are very indicative of one's intellect, but they are telling of the quality of candidates to some extent).

In all honesty, if you have admission letters from all three, and you don't mind the extra cost of living in London, go to King's. As discussed above, Nottingham and Exeter will not close any doors, if you are a good student, but the quality of teaching, the prestige, and connections of King's to the legal world are on a different level. (in my opinion, Oxbridge offer unparalleled prestige, but right after that there is King's/LSE/UCL).
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Notoriety
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(Original post by Justme!)
I don't know if all of the people who commented above have links to the legal sector, but as a law graduate, my knowledge (based on personal experience and knowledge I've gained through attending events / talking to friends who are practising in the city) is that King's > the other universities that you have mentioned.

Nottingham may come relatively close, but still, there is no comparison between King's and Nottingham in my opinion. King's College London is an international powerhouse, particularly in Law (Humanities in general, but the Law department stands out), consistently wins "top employability" awards, is right round the corner from the City and throws a huge law fair every year that attracts over 70, hugely reputable law firms. It recently (approximately 2 years ago) won the "top legal research" award (ranking above all British universities, and even global powerhouses, such as Harvard Law). Its centre for transnational law is a powerhouse of research as well. Added to that, is the ability to cross register for classes at UCL / LSE, if anything that is of interest to you isn't covered / offered by King's.

Furthermore, I very much doubt (even though I'm speculating on this) the quality of the candidate pool is similar at Exeter, Nottingham, and King's. I'm sure a quick look at the average UCAS score of admitted students for King's Law School, Nottingham Law School, and Exeter Law school will reveal the differences (not saying A-Levels are very indicative of one's intellect, but they are telling of the quality of candidates to some extent).

In all honesty, if you have admission letters from all three, and you don't mind the extra cost of living in London, go to King's. As discussed above, Nottingham and Exeter will not close any doors, if you are a good student, but the quality of teaching, the prestige, and connections of King's to the legal world are on a different level. (in my opinion, Oxbridge offer unparalleled prestige, but right after that there is King's/LSE/UCL).
Now would be a fun time to play that exciting game of spot the KCL grad!

You are jumping the gun. OP is talking about studying politics at university, then going into legal, not about studying law at university.

You make the point about average entry. For politics, Nottingham 409; King's 436; Exeter 480. The better politics course is at Exeter, by far. For the humanities, contrary to what you said, it is Exeter which has a noted superiority rather than King's.
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Justme!
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(Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.)
Now would be a fun time to play that exciting game of spot the KCL grad!

You are jumping the gun. OP is talking about studying politics at university, then going into legal, not about studying law at university.

You make the point about average entry. For politics, Nottingham 409; King's 436; Exeter 480. The better politics course is at Exeter, by far. For the humanities, contrary to what you said, it is Exeter which has a noted superiority rather than King's.
Absolutely. I missed the politics line, but I believe my post was very specifically addressing the law schools of those three universities.

I guess the questions remains though: given one's interest to go into Law, is it better to do politics at a university that has a better politics student body, or one that has a top ranking law school? I'd probably go to Exeter to be honest, since it has such a prestigious politics school.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.)
Now would be a fun time to play that exciting game of spot the KCL grad!

You are jumping the gun. OP is talking about studying politics at university, then going into legal, not about studying law at university.

You make the point about average entry. For politics, Nottingham 409; King's 436; Exeter 480. The better politics course is at Exeter, by far. For the humanities, contrary to what you said, it is Exeter which has a noted superiority rather than King's.
Interesting, but do you think recruiters are going to know the difference or care? If they have are in with a shout then application, assessment and interview are going to be more relevant imo. I get mystified when you get all these posts thinking there is some divine pecking order that they follow exactly.

Having read the posts, then I do think everyone appears to be in rough agreement, except for the bit of flag waving fluff.
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Crazy Jamie
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There does seem to broad agreement on this now, and I do appreciate that I am approaching this from a pupillage rather than training contract standpoint, but I'll just add that of all of the pupillage applications that I have read, I have not once either rejected an application or recommended a candidate for interview based on the university that they attended. The mistake with all of these questions is that applications are not assessed in the way that the question assumes they are. Anybody who assumes that they will be offered any position based on the name value of their university is likely to struggle to get any sort of offers, regardless of which university they actually attend.

On a side note, whilst everyone assumes that these questions are about pecking order of universities, there is still every chance that the OP was actually talking about the additional support and opportunities that may be available from one of those universities compared to the other, as has already been mentioned in relation to Oxbridge. That probably wasn't what was being asked because these questions aren't generally aimed in that direction, but it's always possible.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Interesting, but do you think recruiters are going to know the difference or care? If they have are in with a shout then application, assessment and interview are going to be more relevant imo. I get mystified when you get all these posts thinking there is some divine pecking order that they follow exactly.

Having read the posts, then I do think everyone appears to be in rough agreement, except for the bit of flag waving fluff.
I think you have misunderstood my post. I was saying two things. First, OP was talking about doing a politics degree. Second, the claim the other poster made about KCL being a humanities powerhouse was incorrect. I was in now way giving credence to the idea that these universities are gradated from a legal recruiter's POV, either for law or non-law applicants.

It is clear from my various posting in legal and law that I do not think that recruiters know the difference or care.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.)
I think you have misunderstood my post. I was saying two things. First, OP was talking about doing a politics degree. Second, the claim the other poster made about KCL being a humanities powerhouse was incorrect. I was in now way giving credence to the idea that these universities are gradated from a legal recruiter's POV, either for law or non-law applicants.

It is clear from my various posting in legal and law that I do not think that recruiters know the difference or care.
Nope I was agreeing with you.
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beatles17
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Interesting, but do you think recruiters are going to know the difference or care? If they have are in with a shout then application, assessment and interview are going to be more relevant imo. I get mystified when you get all these posts thinking there is some divine pecking order that they follow exactly.

Having read the posts, then I do think everyone appears to be in rough agreement, except for the bit of flag waving fluff.
I wouldn't listen him, I'm guessing he's at/went to Exeter. Employers do not care about entry tariff data for individual universities and courses, presumably that's a joke? If anything they're probably more likely to care about the percentage of people who actually end up with good honours.
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(Original post by beatles17)
I wouldn't listen him, I'm guessing he's at/went to Exeter. Employers do not care about entry tariff data for individual universities and courses, presumably that's a joke? If anything they're probably more likely to care about the percentage of people who actually end up with good honours.
I did not bring up entry tariff data; I only used entry data, when I replied to a poster who had previously mentioned it, to disprove one of his/her points. (Which they accepted.) I certainly did not say employers care about entry data.

The joke is that people like you weigh in having not read the thread, and are quite cocky when doing so.
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beatles17
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(Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.)
I did not bring up entry tariff data; I only used entry data, when I replied to a poster who had previously mentioned it, to disprove one of his/her points. (Which they accepted.) I certainly did not say employers care about entry data.
So in other words: 'I did not use entry tariff data. I used entry tariff data.' :facepalm:

Essentially your argument to the OP is that they should go to Exeter over a global titan like Kings because the entry tariff at Exeter was once 45 UCAS points higher than at Kings in 2016. So Exeter is better than Kings is it? Taking your ego to the salon are you?

Of course they accepted it, because people like you entertain the position that entry tariff data is the sole equivalent of 'prestige' (there are a LOT of people like you on TSR who buy into that logic, I won't deny that). No you didn't say employers care about entry data, but that's more or less what you (and others) imply when you say things like 'the course is better by far' and that it has a 'noted superiority'. That doesn't mean the course is harder, or that employers care. It just means more posh kids happened to wanted to go there in 2017.
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(Original post by beatles17)
So in other words: 'I did not use entry tariff data. I used entry tariff data.' :facepalm:

Essentially your argument to the OP is that they should go to Exeter over a global titan like Kings because the entry tariff at Exeter was once 45 UCAS points higher than at Kings in 2016. So Exeter is better than Kings is it? Taking your ego to the salon are you?

Of course they accepted it, because people like you entertain the position that entry tariff data is the sole equivalent of 'prestige' (there are a LOT of people like you on TSR who buy into that logic, I won't deny that). No you didn't say employers care about entry data, but that's more or less what you (and others) imply when you say things like 'the course is better by far' and that it has a 'noted superiority'. That doesn't mean the course is harder, or that employers care. It just means more posh kids happened to wanted to go there in 2017.
You're absolutely correct in all respects. Thank you for your correction..
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