username3553182
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#1
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#1
Bonjour à tous!
I just wanted to ask about this grammar point that I was having trouble with. (I wanted to ask an actual human rather than a faulty translator... yes I'm talking about Google Translate lol) I wanted to translate the sentence:
'He always looks out for those he cares about.'
I was having a bit of trouble with the grammar in this sentence.
A possible translation that I made is
'Il s'occupe toujours de ceux dont il se soucie'
However, I get the feeling that 'se soucier de' gives more of a sense of 'to worry about' or 'to care about an issue' (rather than a person).
I wanted to translate this phrase with tenir à, but I just can't seem to get my head around it, and it's the à part that confuses me as I know you can't put a preposition at the end of a sentence but it seems redundant elsewhere. This is the closest I can get but it doesn't seem right:
'Il s'occupe toujours de ceux qu'il tient'... but this would suggest 'he always looks out for those he holds'...
I think it's the relative pronouns that are confusing me but I'd appreciate it if someone could help with a correct translation!
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Anna Schoon
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#2
Report 3 years ago
#2
(Original post by mundosinfin)
Bonjour à tous!
I just wanted to ask about this grammar point that I was having trouble with. (I wanted to ask an actual human rather than a faulty translator... yes I'm talking about Google Translate lol) I wanted to translate the sentence:
'He always looks out for those he cares about.'
I was having a bit of trouble with the grammar in this sentence.
A possible translation that I made is
'Il s'occupe toujours de ceux dont il se soucie'
However, I get the feeling that 'se soucier de' gives more of a sense of 'to worry about' or 'to care about an issue' (rather than a person).
I wanted to translate this phrase with tenir à, but I just can't seem to get my head around it, and it's the à part that confuses me as I know you can't put a preposition at the end of a sentence but it seems redundant elsewhere. This is the closest I can get but it doesn't seem right:
'Il s'occupe toujours de ceux qu'il tient'... but this would suggest 'he always looks out for those he holds'...
I think it's the relative pronouns that are confusing me but I'd appreciate it if someone could help with a correct translation!
You're right that it's a relative pronoun issue here. And you're also right that se soucier does not really translate "to care for" in this context.

Tenir à is a good option and the relative pronoun you need here is the structure preposition + lequel / laquelle / lesquels / lesquelles

That means that you'd get Il s'occupe toujours de ceux auxquels il tient. - auxquels because à + lesquels elides to auxquels (just as à + les elides to aux.)

Hope that's clear; get back to me otherwise!
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username3553182
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#3
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#3
(Original post by Anna Schoon)
You're right that it's a relative pronoun issue here. And you're also right that se soucier does not really translate "to care for" in this context.

Tenir à is a good option and the relative pronoun you need here is the structure preposition + lequel / laquelle / lesquels / lesquelles

That means that you'd get Il s'occupe toujours de ceux auxquels il tient. - auxquels because à + lesquels elides to auxquels (just as à + les elides to aux.)

Hope that's clear; get back to me otherwise!
Yeah I get it thanks! I was hesitant to look at lequel etc because I was always taught that lequel was only used for talking about objects, not people (e.g. Le sac dans lequel j'ai mis mon crayon...) but thanks so much for the clarification
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Anna Schoon
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#4
Report 3 years ago
#4
(Original post by mundosinfin)
Yeah I get it thanks! I was hesitant to look at lequel etc because I was always taught that lequel was only used for talking about objects, not people (e.g. Le sac dans lequel j'ai mis mon crayon...) but thanks so much for the clarification
In the relative pronoun structure, lequel can apply to both people and objects. In the case of your sentence, you could also say ...ceux à qui il tient; but I don't like it stylistically because of the two "i"s that follow each other in quick succession "qui il". It's a matter of preference rather than grammar. (You probably know that qui is always qui and never, ever, elides).
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username3553182
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#5
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#5
(Original post by Anna Schoon)
In the relative pronoun structure, lequel can apply to both people and objects. In the case of your sentence, you could also say ...ceux à qui il tient; but I don't like it stylistically because of the two "i"s that follow each other in quick succession "qui il". It's a matter of preference rather than grammar. (You probably know that qui is always qui and never, ever, elides).
Yeah I know
How about 'ceux à qui je tiens'/'ceux auxquels je tiens'? Which would you say is more 'correct', or are they interchangeable?
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Anna Schoon
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#6
Report 3 years ago
#6
(Original post by mundosinfin)
Yeah I know
How about 'ceux à qui je tiens'/'ceux auxquels je tiens'? Which would you say is more 'correct', or are they interchangeable?
They are interchangeable in terms of grammar but the à qui structure here would be my preferred choice because it's slightly easier to say - you don't have the succession of vowels as you do with à qui il tient.

By the way, just so you know, there are two prepositions with which you have to use lequel etc. and you're actually not allowed to use qui - these are entre and parmi. So to translate "between whom" or "amongst whom" you have to say entre lesquels or parmi lesquels - always plural, obviously, in this context, but potentially feminine plural.
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