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    It's lucky he didn't injure anyone when he collapsed at the wheel previously. By getting back behind the wheel he was gambling with the lives of other motorists, cyclists and pedestrians. If he couldn't/shouldn't drive then he should have quit and done something else.

    It's obviously a tragedy for his family and friends, but it's hard to blame anyone else on this occasion. Any comments about 'capitalism kills again' are clearly nonsense.
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    (Original post by DecagonX)
    That's the thing, he wasn't being fined for going to the doctors, he was being fined for not finding someone to cover him.
    Oh please. You know damn well it doesn't work like that in any other kind of employment. Courier companies have basically found a loophole in employment law that allows them to deny their workers the basic rights they deserve. Does anyone seriously believe these people are genuinely self-employed? This is nothing but contractual ****ery that needs to be outlawed immediately.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Oh please. You know damn well it doesn't work like that in any other kind of employment. Courier companies have basically found a loophole in employment law that allows them to deny their workers the basic rights they deserve. Does anyone seriously believe these people are genuinely self-employed? This is nothing but contractual ****ery that needs to be outlawed immediately.
    Other employers certainly have the same **** business practices, not just courier firms. That is why the onus is on the employee to find a company that isn't completely morally void.

    Well write to your local MP so they can ignore you.
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    (Original post by DecagonX)
    It is quite simple, they are **** employers so change job. Why is that so hard?
    Because it not that simple. If you can't afford a 150 quid fine, I can't imagine you can afford to be out of a job. Its not just a case walking into another job. Who would you use as a reference? The guys that fined you 150 quid for being unreliable in their eyes?

    Id love to quit my job to find a better one but I can't cos of rent and the small fact I need to eat. I've yet to save much money so couldn' afford to do what you suggest.
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    (Original post by Guru Jason)
    Because it not that simple. If you can't afford a 150 quid fine, I can't imagine you can afford to be out of a job. Its not just a case walking into another job. Who would you use as a reference? The guys that fined you 150 quid for being unreliable in their eyes?

    Id love to quit my job to find a better one but I can't cos of rent and the small fact I need to eat. I've yet to save much money so couldn' afford to do what you suggest.
    I never said leave his job with nothing, amazingly you can apply for jobs while still working and even leave your jobs to go into another one, shocking I know. Why is that hard?

    The modern day reference contains little more than name and length of service all of which can be confirmed by the HR department. I highly doubt that a delivery man is going to need an in depth reference.

    Are you incapable of looking for a job while you are in a job?
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    His death was entirely self inflicted. He could has gotten another job.
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    (Original post by DecagonX)
    Other employers certainly have the same **** business practices, not just courier firms.
    Precisely. Which makes the "just find another job" crows equally full of crap. Loads of these jobs are like this. I've been in the warehouse sector and all the jobs have the same lousy aspects.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Precisely. Which makes the "just find another job" crows equally full of crap. Loads of these jobs are like this. I've been in the warehouse sector and all the jobs have the same lousy aspects.
    There are also companies out there that don't treat you like ****. You can change jobs if you don't like what you signed up for.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Completely and utterly irrelevant. This is a company that actively attempts to dissuade chronically ill workers from seeking treatment. It's pretty clear where the real problem is here.
    I mean... he could have taken it off to get his medication and if they tried to fine him he would have taken them to court.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    "A courier for the parcel giant DPD who was fined for attending a medical appointment to treat his diabetes collapsed and died of the disease, it has emerged. Don Lane, 53, from Christchurch in Dorset, missed appointments with specialists because he felt under pressure to cover his round and faced DPD’s £150 daily penalties if he did not find cover, his widow has told the Guardian."

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...-from-diabetes
    I see your back at it again with the anti-capitalist agenda. Secondly, Capitalism did not strike again because it didn't kill him this was because of poor management from the driver and the company.

    If you are going to blame and shame then blame the Tories for failing to create legislation to prevent this nonsense.

    I suggest you explain why you hate capitalism so much and what better solution is there for our country.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Completely and utterly irrelevant. This is a company that actively attempts to dissuade chronically ill workers from seeking treatment. It's pretty clear where the real problem is here.
    This company can only exist as long as people choose to work under its contracts. If the terms are unfair or inconvenient, don't work for them. Don't do business with them. Don't recommend them.

    It's unfortunate that this man died, but the company wasn't enslaving him.
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    Baically best system we have ever worked out has flaws related to the fact that Humans (imperfect beings) are using the system, who knew?
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    This company can only exist as long as people choose to work under its contracts. If the terms are unfair or inconvenient, don't work for them. Don't do business with them. Don't recommend them.

    It's unfortunate that this man died, but the company wasn't enslaving him.
    You have such a botched understanding of why poeple have jobs... The power and leverage an employee at one of these places is virtually none existant compared to that of the buisness owner. Ever heard of a race to the bottom?

    Your view only works if there was a base level of equality of wealth gauaranteed to all as a birth right, which is far from reality.

    I'm sure you would be the first to complain if this guy joined a powerful union that would stand up for his rights and made his presence felt that way.
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    (Original post by The PoliticalGuy)
    I see your back at it again with the anti-capitalist agenda.

    I suggest you explain why you hate capitalism so much and what better solution is there for our country.
    Yes, it's almost as if I am a socialist.

    Something along these lines.

    http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad....socialism.html
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    You have such a botched understanding of why poeple have jobs... The power and leverage an employee at one of these places is virtually none existant compared to that of the buisness owner. Ever heard of a race to the bottom?

    Your view only works if there was a base level of equality of wealth gauaranteed to all as a birth right, which is far from reality.

    I'm sure you would be the first to complain if this guy joined a powerful union that would stand up for his rights and made his presence felt that way.
    I have nothing against unions. If employees wish to bargain collectively, that's up to them.

    But I also don't continue to work for companies which don't give me a fair deal. We have the power to do that. I've left places before because they didn't allow me enough time off. Why this man worked under that terrible contract for 19 years I cannot fathom.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    This company can only exist as long as people choose to work under its contracts. If the terms are unfair or inconvenient, don't work for them. Don't do business with them. Don't recommend them.

    It's unfortunate that this man died, but the company wasn't enslaving him.
    Or, better yet, don't allow such detestable arrangements in the first place. My employer would not be allowed to put me in this situation. DPD should not be allowed to circumvent the law with sham contracts.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)

    But I also don't continue to work for companies which don't give me a fair deal. We have the power to do that. I've left places before because they didn't allow me enough time off. Why this man worked under that terrible contract for 19 years I cannot fathom.
    Yes, but what do you do when all the potential companies you could work for all have similar conditions? Which is the case in these kind of jobs. The market mechanisms are selecting for these kind of exploitative conditions for these kind of labourers. What if your employer is a monopsony (You get this in market towns). Moving jobs can be stressful, not everyone likes to constantly change jobs. I'ma case in point, I put up with a lot in jobs becuase I find it so emotionally exhausting getting a new job.

    There is also the mind control factor. It's suprising how easy poeple are to manipulate and to think the probelm lies with them, and that it is acceptable for an employer to expect its employees to sort out their own cover staff. Just becuase some humans are proned to be becoming the stupidest it is possible for a human to be when sloted into the devision of labour framework, doesn't make it acceptable for those with the power to expliot them. Even if they "consent" to it.

    You could get rid of health and safety and start having worker death increases and people would still engage in that work.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    This company can only exist as long as people choose to work under its contracts. If the terms are unfair or inconvenient, don't work for them. Don't do business with them. Don't recommend them.

    It's unfortunate that this man died, but the company wasn't enslaving him.
    There are plenty of people in the situation where they are so desperate that they'll take any job. That shouldn't be an excuse to treat them like dirt.
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    It's the "self employed so we don't have to give you any employment rights" type of employment that's the issue.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)

    But I also don't continue to work for companies which don't give me a fair deal. We have the power to do that. I've left places before because they didn't allow me enough time off. Why this man worked under that terrible contract for 19 years I cannot fathom.
    What do you think about the concept of full employment? Why do you think that is no longer a policy under neoliberalism? What effect do you think this has on poeple who can only sell their none skilled Labour?


    (Original post by DeBruyne18)
    There are plenty of people in the situation where they are so desperate that they'll take any job. That shouldn't be an excuse to treat them like dirt.
    It;s almost as if you need a section of people who are this desperate for capitalism to function :beard:
 
 
 
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