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Many graduates earn 'paltry returns' for their degree watch

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    its also who is offering degrees a good majority of these so called universities offering CCC courses dont give a good outlook for employability with employers wether people want to realize that or not. There needs to be a cap on the amount of degree awarding universities, it should be capped at maximum 50 universities, with 20 elite, 20 mid tier, and then 10 for those who desperately want a degree but cant get in. The system now is so unsustainable all these crap unis that offer little to no value to students or society at the SAME HIGH PRICE. Students need to be more realistically aware of there chances of employment and prospects at London met, and these other former polytechnic dodgy institutions. That would also force universities to weed out some of the useless courses. Just my opinion.
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    There’s still a place for Liberal Arts and General Studies. The issue is that the UK economy needs skilled tradespeople and technicians more. Of course you could always study nursing med pharm dent but are hard to get into besides nursing.
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    Some people are self centred and chase money.
    Some people are altruistic and have modest living standard aspirations
    Some people simply want to enrich their lives with the enjoyment of gaining knowledge.

    The only thing that matters when choosing a degree is for the person choosing it to decide for themselves.

    Anything else is social engineering - something which governments like to play with from time to time.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Too many people with degrees, too many people who take economically uncompetitive subjects. It's an unfavorable unbalance of supply and demand with a predictable result: lots of unemployed graduates with liberal arts degrees who feel entitled to a high-paying career and blame the Tories for everything wrong with their lives.
    The comments came from a Tory minister...
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    (Original post by Realitysreflexx)
    its also who is offering degrees a good majority of these so called universities offering CCC courses dont give a good outlook for employability with employers wether people want to realize that or not. There needs to be a cap on the amount of degree awarding universities, it should be capped at maximum 50 universities, with 20 elite, 20 mid tier, and then 10 for those who desperately want a degree but cant get in. The system now is so unsustainable all these crap unis that offer little to no value to students or society at the SAME HIGH PRICE. Students need to be more realistically aware of there chances of employment and prospects at London met, and these other former polytechnic dodgy institutions. That would also force universities to weed out some of the useless courses. Just my opinion.
    Full time employment 4 1/2 years after graduation:-

    Oxford 71.3%
    Manchester 72.7%
    Durham 77.4%
    Liverpool John Moores 80.6%
    Nottingham Trent 81.5%
    Bournemouth 84.9%
    Loughborough 85.2%
    Harper Adams 89.0%
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    That's not how forums work. Your post raised a matter I wanted to address.



    I am unconvinced. There's a difference between saying that people shouldn't take particular degrees as an absolute and saying that it would generally be ill advised from a purely financial perspective to do so. I'm sure that for someone who really loves art history it could be a highly rewarding and worthwhile experience to spend three years studying it at university. They just shouldn't necessarily expect their degree to help them bring in the big bucks afterwards.



    I don't think the MP's personal choices bear upon his points about the general trends one way or another.

    In fact I think most of this is very much off-point.
    I'm in general agreement but think there is an exception to professions such as nursing and teaching. Or in general, public sector workers who have their salaries determined by the government.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Full time employment 4 1/2 years after graduation:-

    Oxford 71.3%
    Manchester 72.7%
    Durham 77.4%
    Liverpool John Moores 80.6%
    Nottingham Trent 81.5%
    Bournemouth 84.9%
    Loughborough 85.2%
    Harper Adams 89.0%
    Even if this where true, ill gladly state that 30% of oxford graduates likely come from households where they may never need to work.

    I guarantee you 95% of bournemouth graduates do.

    Dont show me these empty statistics without taking reality into consideration.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    You could fit the graduates of all gender studies degrees in the uk over the past decade on a single decker bus.
    That's an interesting statement. Got a link.?
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    (Original post by Realitysreflexx)
    Even if this where true,
    Do you wish to call the official Higher Education Statistics Agency liars?

    ill gladly state that 30% of oxford graduates likely come from households where they may never need to work.
    Well, that isn't right. There is a small element of truth in you comment but not a lot. The reality is that a lot of Oxford graduates continue in higher education for several years but then do not earn at a level commensurate with what they have foregone to get there.


    Oxford is somewhat atypical. The return on many Russell Group arts degrees is poor compared with many more vocational degrees offered by newer universities.
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    (Original post by Just my opinion)
    That's an interesting statement. Got a link.?
    Take this article from THES in 2013

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com...004832.article

    Gender studies has gone the way of Baked Alaska and tie-die jeans. Big in the 1970s
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Do you wish to call the official Higher Education Statistics Agency liars?



    Well, that isn't right. There is a small element of truth in you comment but not a lot. The reality is that a lot of Oxford graduates continue in higher education for several years but then do not earn at a level commensurate with what they have foregone to get there.


    Oxford is somewhat atypical. The return on many Russell Group arts degrees is poor compared with many more vocational degrees offered by newer universities.
    So you totally ignored my solution to that problem, i said cut down the bs universities and courses and that would lead to only real value courses being offered..

    My statement is of course not a real one but a conclusion that could easily be true.

    just giving you some insight into how silly your standpoint was.

    I stand by my point there should be about 60 large universities and that should be it.. There is no reason to have 127 and only maybe 50 that are respectable..
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    Just what we need, and with brexit around the corner things will surely get better
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    Maybe some people want to study an academic degree for reasons other than pursuing a graduate career
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    (Original post by Feastful)
    "Many graduates receive "paltry returns" for their degrees despite racking up £50,000 in debt, says the chairman of the Education Select Committee.

    Robert Halfon will say in a speech on Monday, that between a fifth and a third of graduates take non-graduate jobs, and that any extra returns for having a degree "vary wildly".

    He will also suggest that too many people are studying academic degrees.

    University leaders maintain that a degree remains an excellent investment."

    FULL STORY: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42923529

    What do you make of this issue?
    Well, the Longitudinal Survey [LEO] clearly showed that not only courses but, barring some flagship courses, entire institutions were underwater against average earnings. Both personally, in terms of students sold a pup and saddled with both debt and a useless degree, and at the level of a society, with repayments which will never be made and misallocation of scarce resources to institutions and courses of limited utility, this can not continue.
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    (Original post by Reiji)
    If you're not studying engineering, mathematics, or a classical subject you are wasting your time
    Classical subjects are a waste of time and money. We've moved on from the Classical Age so these subjects are obsolete.

    Agree with the STEM subject but society needs more than just STEM. English, foreign languages, Politics, Music, Criminology and other non-STEM degrees have applications in the real world and the country needs more of these skills.
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    (Original post by Exceptional)
    Maybe some people want to study an academic degree for reasons other than pursuing a graduate career
    IMO there's some value in people doing degrees for the love of the subject... but how to decide on how many of them you're going to give a student loan to?

    atm the unis are incentivised to attract as many students as possible... and the government promises to provide loans for all the students the uni signs up, tbh I don't think that's going to be sustainable.
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    (Original post by hraaami)
    How low do you have to go to insult someone’s degree and job?
    I have insulted nobody. I suggest you read my post again - carefully this time. I merely pointed out that there are not enough graduate level jobs for all the graduates we are turning out, and that many have to settle for the sort of jobs that require no tertiary education at all. It is a simple fact. That you feel pointing out such a state of affairs is an insult says more about you than it does about me.

    In the early 1970s about 15% of people studied as undergraduates. The number is now over three times that. Graduate level jobs have not kept pace with demand while we simultaneously import people into the country in vast numbers to fulfil the roles that are difficult to fill from within. Nowadays far more people obtain second degrees than took first degrees in the 1970s. It is no wonder many run up debts that they cannot profit from.
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    (Original post by Reiji)
    If you're not studying engineering, mathematics, or a classical subject you are wasting your time
    This is a ridiculous statement. Do we not need vets, doctors, geologists, language teachers, lawyers, scientists, IT people, accountants, artists, clothes designers (to name just a few)?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I have insulted nobody. I suggest you read my post again - carefully this time. I merely pointed out that there are not enough graduate level jobs for all the graduates we are turning out, and that many have to settle for the sort of jobs that require no tertiary education at all. It is a simple fact. That you feel pointing out such a state of affairs is an insult says more about you than it does about me.

    In the early 1970s about 15% of people studied as undergraduates. The number is now over three times that. Graduate level jobs have not kept pace with demand while we simultaneously import people into the country in vast numbers to fulfil the roles that are difficult to fill from within. Nowadays far more people obtain second degrees than took first degrees in the 1970s. It is no wonder many run up debts that they cannot profit from.
    You made a joke about PQs career. How are you possibly trying to defend yourself?
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