Is it normal for my mother to expect birthday and Christmas presents?

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username1221160
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#81
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#81
This thread demonstrates why you shouldn't give kids too much money at a young age.

You run the risk of creating entitled, feeble, emasculated man-boys who struggle to understand adult life.
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Chezza18
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#82
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#82
You only have one mum treat her well !
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HattieTheSwann
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#83
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#83
(I have seen the edit) Even when she acts ungrateful, I would still feel to out of a sense of duty- I'd feel bad if I didn't, personally XD. If it is starting to cost you too much money, then there are loads of nice things out there that you can get for less. It would probably cause problems/ resentment if you stopped.
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jkls92
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Kindred)
If she's shunning gifts you've given her when you're have put in at least some thought them really she's just causing herself grief. Honestly I don't think money really comes into it even (although I imagine it does have some significance to you since it's that sign of support). You are getting her at and it seems they at least aren't terrible gifts. Quite the whole gift giving thing you kinda just get what you get and being all rude about it is... well rude.

It's a bit unfortunate that things aren't perfect between you and yeah it would be nice if she really appreciated her gifts, you felt you were being more supported etc, but hey life is never perfect. I don't think you're being out of line here from what you've said.

Oh and this isn't really my place and I don't know what you're doing with your fund, but I would make sure you've got a bit of a budget and try to save some stuff up. If you can leave uni with a bit of money left over it could come in really handy.
Yes, part is invested so I can't squander it at the moment.

(Original post by HattieTheSwann)
(I have seen the edit) Even when she acts ungrateful, I would still feel to out of a sense of duty- I'd feel bad if I didn't, personally XD. If it is starting to cost you too much money, then there are loads of nice things out there that you can get for less. It would probably cause problems/ resentment if you stopped.
That's right, stopping isn't even an option because it would compromise our relationship.

(Original post by Sulfolobus)
This thread demonstrates why you shouldn't give kids too much money at a young age.

You run the risk of creating entitled, feeble, emasculated man-boys who struggle to understand adult life.
Hahahahah. Ego iam a principio in parsimonia atque in duritia atque in industria omnem adulescentiam meam abstinui, agro colendo, saxis sabinis, silicibus repastinandis atque conserendis. Indeed a certain liberality with money makes one soft.
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Rigel
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#85
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#85
(Original post by usualsuspects)
I'm a 20 years old undergraduate. It feels wrong to me that she expects presents from her child, at this age, especially given that after I've turned 18 hers haven't been particularly special (usually worth a couple of hundreds) and this is basically all she contributes to my finances.

Furthermore, it's unpleasant to give her presents because she is ungrateful and usually unsatisfied with my gifts. This is why I'd rather avoid it.

EDIT for judgemental haters: I have always bought relatively expensive gifts for my mother, only recently I had a feeling it was wrong for her to expect it given she doesn't help me with uni costs at all. I know I am privileged and I appreciate I have been lucky to be born in my family (it could have gone much better, but I had a 99% chance of being poorer).
A couple of hundred is a lot to spend on you.

That out of the way, I don't buy presents for anyone except my boyfriend, and we just tell each other what we want to avoid disappointment. I don't buy any family gifts, including siblings and parents. There is no need.
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jkls92
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#86
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#86
(Original post by doodle_333)
You have enough, so stop moaning.
And I'm glad about that, what I meant is that it's certainly not thanks to my mother if I do.

(Original post by Vikt0rija)
I can’t even get myself to finish the rest of this thread cause the guy whose post it is made my blood boil. I genuinely hope I don’t EVER meet you because god id put your head through a wall. I come from an upper class family, and I refuse to take money that my parents may offer. I work and save all my money for university. Im going to uni in September and my accommodation fees are £8000 a year and guess what, I’m paying for it MYSELF with the money I saved up having 2 years off before going to uni. I’m so so grateful my mum makes me dinner and provides me a roof over my head. Because of her providing for me, I hoover the house, I cook for her, I buy her silly gifts just so she knows how thankful I am for her unconditional love and support for the last 20 years.

I really hope you open your eyes and realise how absurd you’re sounding. It makes me feel sick your grandparents are funding your studies. You say you’re quite independent yet you fully rely on money your family gives you. What would happen if you got cut off? And if you’re so independent, why don’t you cut yourself off and try and live for yourself for a while? Get some perspective of REAL life. I’m actually so shocked and disgusted someone of your ages are still accepting money form elderly. I hope you wake up one day and realise you have to do things for yourself. And FIY, even though we come from the same background, I’d never dare to tell people how much I spend a month unlike you, ( not even your own earned money), and unlike you, I’m down to earth, and I’d give everything up for my family, because they gave me a privilege to be alive. Please re-evaluate yourself. P.s this is no judgement, it’s all based on all the answers you provided in this thread, you do not give a nice impression of yourself, maybe take it as a tip, try to better yourself, learn how to cook for yourself, or does someone have to wipe your butt for you too?
It makes your blood boil? A person receiving support from his family while at university isn't such a huge issue, I'd worry more about people inheriting billions.

It was your parents' precise duty to provide you with a roof and food. You probably have a very good relationship with them, good for you, mine is less perfect. Perhaps cooking, buying silly gifts and being pointlessly sentimental is easier and more natural for a girl?

You sound absurd to me. I'll probably set up a fund for my grandchildren as well, it's a widespread practice.

I'm not independent in that sense, never said that. I hope I won't be disowned, it doesn't seem likely at the moment. "What if" speculations have no place in my ethics of life.

It's family money, it has been their grandparents in the past, it will be mine in the future.

My saying how much I spend for the purpose of the discussion is as out of line as you saying you are upper class. It's an anonymous forum so it doesn't really matter. Anyway, maybe I shouldn't have said it.

Being alive is not a privilege.
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Vikt0rija
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#87
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#87
(Original post by usualsuspects)

My saying how much I spend for the purpose of the discussion is as out of line as you saying you are upper class. It's an anonymous forum so it doesn't really matter. Anyway, maybe I shouldn't have said it.
You’re the one who stated being upper middle class, so I stated what I’m classed as too. Long story short, you don’t choose your parents, so you have to make the most of what you have. If she doesn’t appreciate your presents, there’s not much you can do, telling her it hurts your feelings would be an idea.

Else, explain to her that you ARE a student and she shouldn’t expect something fancy, something thoughtful should do, just as you shouldn’t expect something off her. Not much you can do about that, but personally speaking, if someone didn’t appreciate something I got them, I’d tell them to do one and take the present back, try to teach them some manners haha.
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Vikt0rija
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#88
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#88
Because family or not, not appreciating something someone put thought and MONEY in to, is very disrespectful. Even if it’s a thank you that’s so kind of you ( you can dislike the present but I think it’s so hurtful to hear someone tell you they wanted something else instead)
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Feastful
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#89
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#89
(Original post by usualsuspects)
I have no resentment, but the least she could do is not expect me to spend my father's money on her.
You contradict yourself constantly. If you hold no resentment, then why is it an issue that you that you got a trust fund from one side of the family and not the other? Why do you refuse to spend money given to you on your mother?

So much of what you say in your posts, suggests that you have a serious axe to grind with your mother. There have been no words of love towards her, only complaints and criticisms, and you blatantly hold her in very low esteem in general ("she has always been idle and never even thought about it").


(Original post by usualsuspects)
I have always bought relatively expensive gifts for my mother
You just don't get it.

What does the expense of the gifts matter, when the money you are using to buy the gift was given to you (A.K.A daddy's family trust fund)? Do you really believe that an expensive gift makes an inherently great gift?

Expense of a gift is only an admirable factor if you either actually worked for the money, or it reflected sizeable chunk of your savings.

If you're paying for things using money given to you (especially if comparatively speaking, you've only shaved off a tiny sliver of your riches to afford the gift), then why do you deserve any real kudos for that?

Your mum can clearly detect the lack of sentiment in your gifts (and is unsurprisingly not particularly won over by the cost of them either). Tell me why she should be so grateful for gifts so begrudgingly given? She clearly knows exactly how you feel (she's not an idiot after all). Would you be delighted about receiving a gift from someone who would have rather given it to almost anyone else but you? No? Then why do you expect your mother to be?

(Original post by usualsuspects)
I'm a 20 years old undergraduate. It feels wrong to me that she expects presents from her child, at this age
1. If anything, the older you are, the more relevant/significant giving gifts to a parent becomes.

2. So you're happy to take gifts from her but not give back? You complain that she complains about your gifts, but how are you any better? You've complained a lot about her gifts here.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
I'm not grateful at all, a parent should help their children at university unless they can't
Conversely most people would also argue that a son/daughter should get their parents gifts unless they can't.

You have this very strong sense of entitlement to everything (money, education, assets etc) and you seem feel wronged by those who don't or haven't given you as much. Do you not realize how lucky you have been to get anything at all?
Many would say that you have a very spoiled attitude.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
but the least she could do is not expect me to spend my father's money on her.
Oh really? Like how you expected her family members to spend more of their money on you? Because you seem pretty sour about that.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
Can't cook. Cleaning is a bit absurd at my age.
How exactly is cleaning absurd?

It is more absurd that as a 20 year old man, you lack such vital life skills. You're not a child anymore!

Such gifts (cooking a meal or offering to clean the house), even if shoddy, would show more sentiment and effort than anything you've bought her in years.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
She has lived off her parents her entire life, I'm more responsible and plan to work.
Until you actually get a job, you have no ground to criticize her on.

How are you more responsible than she is? You don't even know how to cook and won't tidy up after yourself!

(Original post by usualsuspects)
I don't need money
You do need self-respect, you need need to learn the value of hard work & money, you need to learn more empathy and you do need to learn more sense of personal responsibility etc.

Why on earth do you think billionaires like Bill Gates are refusing to pay for everything in their kids lives (being determined to ensure that their kids work hard for things etc)?
Because they realize the toxic effect that large trust funds have on kids. There is so much more to be gained from work than simply money (but as you haven't ever had to work yet, those lessons/realizations have so far been completely lost on you).

Right now you are a jobless man-child with no real life skills and whose entire existence/lifestyle so far has been entirely supported by other people's money.
Maybe you have some good grades, maybe you're in University- but that doesn't make you significantly superior (than your mother or almost anyone else).

Stop justifying doing less, and start justifying doing more. Make results not excuses. A respectful man is a responsible man. Stop feeling so entitled to other people's wealth and charity (and start actually earning your own money and aspiring to be more charitable).

How you do you think your father behaved at your age? Do you think he treated his mother with such barely disguised contempt, complained about not being given enough riches and showed no interest in working unless he absolutely had to? Was your father not an admirable guy who people respected?
Right now, what exactly are you doing to earn respect and admiration?
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Ellie1402
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#90
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#90
(Original post by usualsuspects)
I'm not grateful at all, a parent should help their children at university unless they can't, while she has always been idle and never even thought about it. Her side of the family is much better off than my father's, yet I got no trust fund from them and instead it was the latter's parents who set up a fund when I was born. I'm not making a huge scene about it and I have no resentment, but the least she could do is not expect me to spend my father's money on her.
this has me utterly perplexed. you get presents to show you care about someone. it doesn't matter at the content of the present, its the effort. You have a trust fund? that's something 90% of the population could only dream of- yes there's an issue of your mum being ungrateful but equally you complaining about having to buy her gifts "because she has been idle" and never contributed to your finances. That's a poor motivation for giving presents. you simply need to decide whether or not you love her enough to bother buying her a present. if your trust fund can afford to, show some affection if you feel inclined to do so.
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gjd800
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#91
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#91
I'm intrigued that you toiled over the rocks in the Sabine fields
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Eldronyx
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#92
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#92
You sound like an utter ****
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Kallisto
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#93
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#93
(Original post by usualsuspects)
I'm a 20 years old undergraduate. It feels wrong to me that she expects presents from her child, at this age, especially given that after I've turned 18 hers haven't been particularly special (usually worth a couple of hundreds) and this is basically all she contributes to my finances.

Furthermore, it's unpleasant to give her presents because she is ungrateful and usually unsatisfied with my gifts. This is why I'd rather avoid it.

EDIT for judgemental haters: I have always bought relatively expensive gifts for my mother, only recently I had a feeling it was wrong for her to expect it given she doesn't help me with uni costs at all. I know I am privileged and I appreciate I have been lucky to be born in my family (it could have gone much better, but I had a 99% chance of being poorer).
Making a present to people is an unconditional and very kindful beavior to make those happy. This gesture should not be expected to special days, neither birthday nor christmas. You should make a present, if you are feeling a joy to give your lovely people a gift who you appreciate.
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jkls92
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#94
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#94
(Original post by gjd800)
I'm intrigued that you toiled over the rocks in the Sabine fields
It was referred to the person I quoted, and to the fact that the Censor would have called me “feeble” as he did 😂
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jkls92
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#95
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#95
(Original post by Feastful)
You contradict yourself constantly. If you hold no resentment, then why is it an issue that you that you got a trust fund from one side of the family and not the other? Why do you refuse to spend money given to you on your mother?

So much of what you say in your posts, suggests that you have a serious axe to grind with your mother. There have been no words of love towards her, only complaints and criticisms, and you blatantly hold her in very low esteem in general ("she has always been idle and never even thought about it").




You just don't get it.

What does the expense of the gifts matter, when the money you are using to buy the gift was given to you (A.K.A daddy's family trust fund)? Do you really believe that an expensive gift makes an inherently great gift?

Expense of a gift is only an admirable factor if you either actually worked for the money, or it reflected sizeable chunk of your savings.

If you're paying for things using money given to you (especially if comparatively speaking, you've only shaved off a tiny sliver of your riches to afford the gift), then why do you deserve any real kudos for that?

Your mum can clearly detect the lack of sentiment in your gifts (and is unsurprisingly not particularly won over by the cost of them either). Tell me why she should be so grateful for gifts so begrudgingly given? She clearly knows exactly how you feel (she's not an idiot after all). Would you be delighted about receiving a gift from someone who would have rather given it to almost anyone else but you? No? Then why do you expect your mother to be?



1. If anything, the older you are, the more relevant/significant giving gifts to a parent becomes.

2. So you're happy to take gifts from her but not give back? You complain that she complains about your gifts, but how are you any better? You've complained a lot about her gifts here.



Conversely most people would also argue that a son/daughter should get their parents gifts unless they can't.

You have this very strong sense of entitlement to everything (money, education, assets etc) and you seem feel wronged by those who don't or haven't given you as much. Do you not realize how lucky you have been to get anything at all?
Many would say that you have a very spoiled attitude.



Oh really? Like how you expected her family members to spend more of their money on you? Because you seem pretty sour about that.



How exactly is cleaning absurd?

It is more absurd that as a 20 year old man, you lack such vital life skills. You're not a child anymore!

Such gifts (cooking a meal or offering to clean the house), even if shoddy, would show more sentiment and effort than anything you've bought her in years.



Until you actually get a job, you have no ground to criticize her on.

How are you more responsible than she is? You don't even know how to cook and won't tidy up after yourself!

You do need self-respect, you need need to learn the value of hard work & money, you need to learn more empathy and you do need to learn more sense of personal responsibility etc.

Why on earth do you think billionaires like Bill Gates are refusing to pay for everything in their kids lives (being determined to ensure that their kids work hard for things etc)?
Because they realize the toxic effect that large trust funds have on kids. There is so much more to be gained from work than simply money (but as you haven't ever had to work yet, those lessons/realizations have so far been completely lost on you).

Right now you are a jobless man-child with no real life skills and whose entire existence/lifestyle so far has been entirely supported by other people's money.
Maybe you have some good grades, maybe you're in University- but that doesn't make you significantly superior (than your mother or almost anyone else).

Stop justifying doing less, and start justifying doing more. Make results not excuses. A respectful man is a responsible man. Stop feeling so entitled to other people's wealth and charity (and start actually earning your own money and aspiring to be more charitable).

How you do you think your father behaved at your age? Do you think he treated his mother with such barely disguised contempt, complained about not being given enough riches and showed no interest in working unless he absolutely had to? Was your father not an admirable guy who people respected?
Right now, what exactly are you doing to earn respect and admiration?
I don't refuse to spend money on my mother. I've always bought her gifts. However, I have a sensation that her expectation that I spend my father's family (they hate each other) money on her is unfair.

It's not a matter of low self-esteem, good for her if she had the chance to spend her life doing what she wanted instead of being trapped in a career. What I meant is that she never felt responsible for setting aside even a small amount of money for my uni studies.

What you said about gifts actually reflects her point of view. However, it's not an element in her favour that she is ungrateful because she knows I get her presents more as an obligation than as a pleasure because I'm upset by her lack of support. Having said this, one should be grateful for a gift regardless of how big it is compared to the giver's financial assets, how the money to buy the gift was made, etc. Our relationship is not mutually equivalent, she is the parent and is expected to help me, as I'll help my children. I'd also add that I have no income, and it's quite different to spend capital that eventually ends, compared to spending a part of the money you earn every month. I have not complained about her gifts (she buys me what I ask for), I have complained about her financial support.

Cleaning is absurd as a gift given my age. Apart from that, I do not clean because I can pay someone else to do it and save myself the bother. There are 100 things I'd rather do with that time and the prospect of cleaning doesn't appeal to me (nor to anyone really). I'm not going to do it for the mere sake of realising your communist utopia. I also help my cleaners make a living, so if anything society benefits from me.

I have ground to criticise her because I have been responsible, done my duty, always got good grades and I am studying finance and "wasting" (her words) my summers in internships in the City to earn enough to maintain my lifestyle by own means, pay for the upkeep of our properties (something she certainly won't be able to do when she'll have to), and send my children to a good school and university. She, on the other hand, never felt responsible for any of this and only did what she considered more convenient for herself, without consideration for her family. This doesn't make me a better person than her, and it doesn't make her a bad person, but on this specific aspect I can say I am being more responsible than her.

I'm going to work up to 100 hours a week after uni so you don't need to lecture me on "hard work". I definitely am a responsible person (see above).

I don't think many sons of billionaires live like peasants and lack money to go to university. Regardless, they have a different outlook on life so I do not care about what they do with their children, and certainly don't consider them a model. I don't believe in the romanticisation of work and I suspect that if you worked in investment banking you'd be less idealistic as well.

Yes, I'm 20 and my existence up to now has been financed by my family, and I don't have a job (university is enough), what's wrong with that?

I'll earn my own money eventually, but I definitely won't be "charitable" towards people like you. I will be very generous with my family.

My father's mother was different from mine.

What am I doing to earn respect and admiration? Well, I don't exactly demand that people admire me for what I have done, that would be excessive at this early point, but I am being responsible with my academic career, developing a good professional CV and most importantly being an honest person with positive externalities on society and the people with whom I come into contact. I have also done some selfless work for others which I don't want to discuss, and it's been a great pleasure so I'm happy about it by myself even if I don't get covered in glory by people who were not involved.
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Tiger Rag
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#96
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#96
(Original post by usualsuspects)
Our relationship is not mutually equivalent, she is the parent and is expected to help me, as I'll help my children.
You're at least 18. She's not responsible for you any more.
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gjd800
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#97
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#97
I used to work down the docks, romanticise THAT :laugh:
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Myriam18
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#98
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#98
(Original post by usualsuspects)
I'm a 20 years old undergraduate. It feels wrong to me that she expects presents from her child, at this age, especially given that after I've turned 18 hers haven't been particularly special (usually worth a couple of hundreds) and this is basically all she contributes to my finances.

Furthermore, it's unpleasant to give her presents because she is ungrateful and usually unsatisfied with my gifts. This is why I'd rather avoid it.

EDIT for judgemental haters: I have always bought relatively expensive gifts for my mother, only recently I had a feeling it was wrong for her to expect it given she doesn't help me with uni costs at all. I know I am privileged and I appreciate I have been lucky to be born in my family (it could have gone much better, but I had a 99% chance of being poorer).
if you cannot afford expensive gifts just do something special for her. take her out to dinner.
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honeyofcourse
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#99
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#99
...you're kidding, right?

look, i can see where you're coming from, but in no way do i agree with it. i don't live with my mother- she's drug-addicted alcoholic and has multiple mental health issues because of this. at a lot of points it feels like she doesn't especially care about me, and there's no way she could afford to buy me a loaf of bread, let alone contribute to uni funds! yeah, she does buy me gifts- nothing expensive, definitely not a couple of hundreds (i wish!) but instead little plastic trinkets or something, and i appreciate the gesture. even through everything, there's no way i wouldn't get her something for her birthday etc, that's just plain rude. she doesn't necessarily deserve it, but she's my mother and i love her; for someone you love, you generally look past the value of gifts- it hardly matters how much you spend, but at least show you care! don't take her for granted
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Feastful
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#100
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#100
(Original post by usualsuspects)
I don't refuse to spend money on my mother. I've always bought her gifts.
And now you're trying to justify not getting her anything.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
good for her if she had the chance to spend her life doing what she wanted instead
Wow that didn't sound patronizing at all (note: sarcasm).
(And this from a guy who earlier criticized his mother for being idle).

(Original post by usualsuspects)
However, I have a sensation that her expectation that I spend my father's family (they hate each other) money on her is unfair.
You're just using a pre-existing family conflict that is between your paternal & maternal families (not you!) as an excuse here though.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
What I meant is that she never felt responsible for setting aside even a small amount of money for my uni studies.
But you already had a trust fund set up.
Your university expenses were entirely covered from the get go.
Why should she have saved up money for something that was already paid for?

(Original post by usualsuspects)
I get her presents more as an obligation than as a pleasure because I'm upset by her lack of support.
But its ridiculous to be so against your mother for not contributing to an education that was already paid for. You are not lacking for anything, so where have you been failed financially?

(Original post by usualsuspects)
Our relationship is not mutually equivalent, she is the parent and is expected to help me, as I'll help my children.
1. But you're not a child anymore.
2. And you have been extremely well provided for.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
I'd also add that I have no income
1. At age 20, that's your responsibility.
2. You do have an income (from your trust fund assets).
3. You also have no real expenditures (because your family has provided for everything).
4. So in reality you live an extremely comfortable financial existence.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
and it's quite different to spend capital that eventually ends, compared to spending a part of the money you earn every month.
Not that many posts back you stated that "I do not need money". Now you are trying to argue that you're somewhat strapped for cash.
Lol quit trying to BS people!

As a 20 year old man, you should have had at least some sort of serious venture into the work force by now (this doesn't mean that you quit education, but that you start making efforts to really grow up and develop some self-respect etc). If you have any issues with a lack of income (despite being given a trust funds, given gods knows how many extra cash or expensive gifts by relatives and having all of your major bills paid for etc) then at your age, that is YOUR responsibility.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
I have not complained about her gifts (she buys me what I ask for), I have complained about her financial support.
1. In your OP, you stated "her presents haven't been particularly special (usually worth a couple of hundreds)". That is not only a complaint, but it displays a distinct lack of appreciation for the value of money.

2. Please state where exactly you have needed the financial support?

Because your complaints have largely boiled down to "I was given a lot of money by one half of the family (and so the other half should have given me lots of money too!)". This feeling of entitlement to other people's wealth is extremely wrong and misguided.

Let me get this straight:

1. IF you are well clothed, fed, sent to school and generally have all basic needs as a child attended to etc, then that is ALL your family is expected to do for you financially. There is no "But these people in my family are richer and they haven't spent as much money on meee (what bad people)!!"- you were not lacking for anything!

There is no "You have a child, so all your money effectively becomes theirs (and you're a bad parent if you withhold it)". You have all you need (and more!) and now you're simply feeling spiteful for not getting even more (even though you have stated that you don't actually need more money).

2. People have very differently idea's on parenting, and one argument is that too much money can poison children; it spoils them, it lowers their empathy, it creates feelings self-entitlement, it makes them lazy and it reduces people's sense of the true value of money, etc (and these are things that many people would say that you are suffering from). Many rich families withhold spending oodles of money on children because they understand that the best way to encourage children to grow up into hard working, well adjusted and successful adults etc, you should avoid showering them with too much money from a young age.

Except that you don't seem to realize this.
You don't consider that your maternal side of the families decision to withhold giving you lots of wealth was in any way a correct decision. No- instead you just feel sour towards them for them withholding wealth from you (which thanks to your paternal side of the family, you felt entitled to).

It wouldn't surprise me if you have been heavily manipulated against your mother by your paternal family.

Responsible family members would not (effectively) say to a kid growing up "(Not saying that they don't love you), BUT, we weren't as wealthy (and yet we gave you so much more). Your mothers side? Rich (but they withheld money from you)! WE paid for everything (and why do you think that your maternal side of the family didn't? Hmm) and then allow you to grow develop increasingly toxic views (which they no doubt delighted in engineering) against your mother. No, such things are never innocent!

The two sides of your family have been playing a game of hateful grudges against each other (since probably before you were even born) and you have become a pawn in the middle. Your mother hasn't actually done anything wrong, but because of how you've been raised with so many manipulative bits of info fed to you, you can't but help feel wronged by her (and her side of the family in general) regardless.
And even now, you're still being used by the two bitter sides of the family to get at each other.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
Cleaning is absurd as a gift given my age. Apart from that, I do not clean because I can pay someone else to do it and save myself the bother.
Just earlier you were trying to justify not spending money on gifts for your money, trying to argue you weren't actually that well off by stating "I have no income (and it's quite different to spend capital that eventually ends, compared to spending a part of the money you earn every month)". And now you're saying that you hire cleaners because you can't be bothered to clean? Lol!!

It IS absurd that you don't clean at your age. 98% of 20 year olds (male and female alike) in this country clean up after themselves. You are idle

(Original post by usualsuspects)
The prospect of cleaning doesn't appeal to me (nor to anyone really). I'm not going to do it for the mere sake of realising your communist utopia. I also help my cleaners make a living, so if anything society benefits from me.
You don't clean because you are lazy. The end.

Employing cleaners (ahh, family wealth so well spent lol) may earn them a buck but when it comes to you employing them that is a mere consequence (so let's not pretend that its anything noble than that is going on).

You are lazy and you complain about a lack of financial support from your mother. But clearly you have more than enough money if you can employ people for no other reason than to clean up the mess you create which you cannot be bothered to clean yourself!

(Original post by usualsuspects)
I have ground to criticise her because I have been responsible, done my duty, always got good grades and I am studying finance and "wasting" (her words) my summers in internships in the City to earn enough to maintain my lifestyle by own means, pay for the upkeep of our properties (something she certainly won't be able to do when she'll have to), and send my children to a good school and university.
1. But you don't work.
2. And you don't have children.
3. And you haven't completed your course.
4. And you don't maintain your own lifestyle.

All of these statements boil down to "I PLAN on doing this!". These are words not actions. The real reality is that right now, until you get a job, you are nothing but a drain on the family resources. Nobody owes you anything for simply studying!
Studying is the very least effort you should be putting in.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
She, on the other hand, never felt responsible for any of this and only did what she considered more convenient for herself, without consideration for her family.
Ok so we have gone from "good for her if she had the chance to spend her life doing what she wanted instead" (and I'm not critical of my mum) back to "She is idle and not anybody worthy of respect" tune.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
This doesn't make me a better person than her, and it doesn't make her a bad person, but on this specific aspect I can say I am being more responsible than her
No you're not. By the families standards that she married into, she did exactly what was expected of her. She fulfilled her end and you were not lacking for anything growing up. You are attending university and have not finished any courses, not landed a job nor even clean up for yourself (etc). Yet you seem to think that simply because your intentions in life are more aspiring, that means you deserve more kudos. But in the real world, results are what people actually care about (and virtually nobody will respect such an arrogant & untried/green guy).

In a bid to feel superior to your mother, you constantly put her down. This in turn lowers your superiority (by intention and effect). So that the only person whose standing you are really lowing at the moment, is that of yourself.


(Original post by usualsuspects)
I'm going to work up to 100 hours a week after uni so you don't need to lecture me on "hard work".
LOL if someone says "And after university, I'm going to be a brilliant inventor!", does that make them one?

You haven't yet had a job. You don't work 100 hours per week. Intentions/ambition doesn't count for anything unless it's actually realized. At the moment you do nothing but study in a bills-free responsibilities-free existence; this couldn't be more worlds apart than the actual real hard work & responsibility of the real working adult world.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
I don't think many sons of billionaires live like peasants and lack money to go to university.
A 20 year old who has the money to pay for cleaners because he can't be bothered to tidy up after himself, does NOT lack money to go to university!!

(Original post by usualsuspects)
Regardless, they have a different outlook on life so I do not care about what they do with their children, and certainly don't consider them a model
Perhaps you should consider them a model. Family fortunes tend to go to ruin under generations of spoiled people like you. Your mothers side of the family is certainly the wiser side.


(Original post by usualsuspects)
I don't believe in the romanticisation of work
LOL says the guy who hasn't had to work.


(Original post by usualsuspects)
and I suspect that if you worked in investment banking you'd be less idealistic as well.
But you don't have any ground to suspect that on lol- you don't work in investment banking!

In reality, the closest you have ever gotten to that is inheriting a trust fund that was already pre-invested by other skillful people employed to invest it on your behalf.
That does not make you an investment banker!


(Original post by usualsuspects)
Yes, I'm 20 and my existence up to now has been financed by my family, and I don't have a job (university is enough), what's wrong with that?
If you really have to be asking that question at this point, then you should take a look back through this thread and think about what's been written (on all sides).

(Original post by usualsuspects)
I'll earn my own money eventually, but I definitely won't be "charitable" towards people like you.
"People like me"? Who are people like me?

I am actually very financially comfortable, so fortunately for me I won't ever have to hope for charity from someone of your likes.

Your attitudes in this thread have invoked the anger, disdain, shock and frustration from people of all financial spectrum's in this thread.

(Original post by usualsuspects)
What am I doing to earn respect and admiration? Well, I don't exactly demand that people admire me for what I have done, that would be excessive at this early point, but I am being responsible with my academic career, developing a good professional CV and most importantly being an honest person with positive externalities on society and the people with whom I come into contact. I have also done some selfless work for others which I don't want to discuss, and it's been a great pleasure so I'm happy about it by myself even if I don't get covered in glory by people who were not involved.
Really the majority of that paragraph can be boiled down to "I'm not wasting my time at the university my family paid for me to go to" and "I've done some nice things (and although I say I won't go into any details for kudos-sake, I will still mention it for kudos-sake)".


Your mother is not a bad person, and yet you have gone out of your way to try to put her down (and in a bid to justify it, you compare yourself as being a noticeably better sort of individual than she is). Almost nobody here though actually see's your mother as being a bad mother (and the more you have tried to put her down and justify not giving back to her, the only thing you have really successfully achieved done is lower other people's opinions of you).

I hope she never see's this thread (for if she does, it will break her heart).

Whatever your mothers failings as a parent, I actually have some sympathy for her. It seems like she married into a family (arranged/pressured marriage? Naively young marriage?) which loathed her and who went to very manipulative ends over the years to turn her own child against her (and to this end, they have been very successful).
And where once she probably did her best to be a much more enthusiastic parent to you, more recently knowing that she has lost you in your heart (and will be forever trapped in this family that hates her), it seems like she is beginning to get to the point of not caring to put up a veneer anymore. Her behaviour sounds like that of a thoroughly depressed individual. And she knows you don't like her, so she doesn't want you to try; "Why put us both through this? Why pretend to care about me?" is probably what she thinks a lot.

I hope that one day you can find some love in that heart of yours before it is too late. ALL of us will one day die (and many will not succumb to old age, but die long before our time), and it will be a severe shame if in life you pushed your mother away for no more than matters of money (something which you already have PLENTY of).

My strongest advice: Next time you see her, don't go through the dreaded motions while you both ignore "the elephant in the room" (because this is something you are both very good at). Clearly, a LOT has gone on in this family that despite you arguing about gifts, the gift issues is merely a surface issue (a minor issue that has very little actual bearing in comparison to the real underlying issues). There's a deep rift in this family (and the worst thing is that it's infecting a new generation). There has been so much that has been said over the years (and yet have you even had a frank open discussion about matters with your mother where you really heard each other out? Does she even know/understand for a fact why you hold so much animosity towards her? Have you heard her side f the story, why she is so miserable? Etc).

You say that one day you will have your own family (and that you want to provide well for them etc). But your parents will be your future children's grandparents (and that includes your mother) and your children will have a right to have grandparents in their life. So will your future children inherit this family rift too, or will you make efforts to put it to an end (leaving it behind in the past where it belongs) so that they can grow up in a much happier family?

Get it sorted it out or learn to live with it, but be the better person in your family and but stop taking sides (least of all between your parents). This side taking will come to no good, no peace, no happiness (has it ever for anyone?).
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