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    And I don't mean you have to have a literalist interpretation or practice organised religion as such.

    But has anyone found a different perspective?

    How did it change you, in your view?

    I am someone who was raised atheist my whole life, my parents think my belief is risible, I mentioned it the other day and they see it like a thought crime, and an embarrassment, no-one around me believes it, but I just find their world view quite oppressive now and dogmatic. I think that generation is quite narcissistic generally and convinced of their own worldview in everything, and It think they damaged the world a lot. They seem to have everything according to their wishes and believe the rest of us are unfortunate if we deviate from their views.

    This dry unemotional rationalism, along with the soulless technocratic politics and digital age, had left me feeling utterly frustrated.

    I now am looking back on it as maddeningly narrow...I need a world of ideals, spiritual and political.

    For the first time in my life I understand the perspective of a believer and why militant atheism and the attempt to wipe out faith annoys people a much as it does.
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    Believe what u want and don't force anything down people's throat, as long as it doesn't lead to immoral acts. - good piece of philosophy to live by.

    Remember when it comes to the creation of the universe there are so many different views NOT JUST A GOD who cares about us or even knows that it's created the universe in the first place (the god of aristotle for instance).

    We are human our brains have not evolved to comprehend quantum mechanics or tacle complex philosophical questions, merely to survive. An answer such as GOD to many of the worlds tough questions is simply "the great cop-out", it's intellectually dishonest with the evidence we've been given.

    In the future we may find out that we are soooo wrong about our morals, the way we view the world and our beliefs and how we've derived them. However the agnostic atheist perspective is the most intellectually honest view based on the evidence, it simply suggests that since there's no solid evidence (at all tbh) of the existance of a god like many other things in life we should assume that there is no such thing, until the evidence presents itself.

    Gnosticism when it comes to philosophical inquiries (based on evidence) is simply stupid and intellectually dishonest wheather you're a theist or an atheist. Our brains in the state they're in now may never figure out the answers to these questions but to say a god did it all is simply no solution at all, the answers to these questions if revealed to us now we may not even be able to comprehend.

    Just because something is emotionless it does not mean it's not true look at the natural order of the world does it seem to give two fcks about our existance? i think not. The "truth (won't) set you free" ironicaly enough chances are it will depress the **** out of you. Our emotions are essentially something brought about by evolution in order to help us survive as a species it's not something designed to help us make truth claims about the natural (not supernatural) world.

    Living in a world of ideals is not something that being an atheist excludes, i'm for moral ideals for one since both atheists and theists a like seem to differ all over the place in terms of ethics, and choose what is and is not moral based on arbitrary distinctions derived from illogical premises.

    An atheist world view in many ways is soo much more freeing to the imagination since it does actually open up a whole world of possibilities. Most athiests aren't dogmatic, simply logical and rational and don't let emotions dictate the validity of truth claims but rather evidence.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    And I don't mean you have to have a literalist interpretation or practice organised religion as such.

    But has anyone found a different perspective?

    How did it change you, in your view?

    I am someone who was raised atheist my whole life, my parents think my belief is risible, I mentioned it the other day and they see it like a thought crime, and an embarrassment, no-one around me believes it, but I just find their world view quite oppressive now and dogmatic. I think that generation is quite narcissistic generally and convinced of their own worldview in everything, and It think they damaged the world a lot. They seem to have everything according to their wishes and believe the rest of us are unfortunate if we deviate from their views.

    This dry unemotional rationalism, along with the soulless technocratic politics and digital age, had left me feeling utterly frustrated.

    I now am looking back on it as maddeningly narrow...I need a world of ideals, spiritual and political.

    For the first time in my life I understand the perspective of a believer and why militant atheism and the attempt to wipe out faith annoys people a much as it does.

    I am agnostic atheist but I see God as being metaphorical and kind of respect the idea and logic of religion more than I did a couple years ago when I literally felt like telling a Christian they were dumb.
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    Are you saying that your dissatisfaction with a particular type of atheistic world view has led you to discover some evidence that leads you to believe that the supernatural exists?
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)

    This dry unemotional rationalism, along with the soulless technocratic politics and digital age, had left me feeling utterly frustrated.
    You don't need a god. You need a holiday.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    And I don't mean you have to have a literalist interpretation or practice organised religion as such.

    But has anyone found a different perspective?

    How did it change you, in your view?

    I am someone who was raised atheist my whole life, my parents think my belief is risible, I mentioned it the other day and they see it like a thought crime, and an embarrassment, no-one around me believes it, but I just find their world view quite oppressive now and dogmatic. I think that generation is quite narcissistic generally and convinced of their own worldview in everything, and It think they damaged the world a lot. They seem to have everything according to their wishes and believe the rest of us are unfortunate if we deviate from their views.

    This dry unemotional rationalism, along with the soulless technocratic politics and digital age, had left me feeling utterly frustrated.

    I now am looking back on it as maddeningly narrow...I need a world of ideals, spiritual and political.

    For the first time in my life I understand the perspective of a believer and why militant atheism and the attempt to wipe out faith annoys people a much as it does.
    We certainly do need to be more sympathetic towards the religious community. You have your beliefs and I have mine, right?

    This being said, there is nothing wrong with arguing some key points. Just like politics.
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    (Original post by Unkilled)
    We certainly do need to be more sympathetic towards the religious community.
    Why? Are you sympathetic to people that believe that they were abducted by aliens? They have just as much evidence for their belief.
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    (Original post by RogerOxon)
    Why? Are you sympathetic to people that believe that they were abducted by aliens? They have just as much evidence for their belief.
    My sarcasm was not clear.
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    (Original post by Unkilled)
    My sarcasm was not clear.
    Living in the US is probably killing my sense of sarcasm then.
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    (Original post by RogerOxon)
    Living in the US is probably killing my sense of sarcasm then.
    I'm a brit.
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    Yes I was pretty much an atheist like 2 years ago. I've studied all major religions and have come to the conclusion that the soul (true Self/Atman) is the same as the highest metaphysical Reality (Brahman/God). My beliefs are also a result of mystical experiences and other experiences that I've had during meditation.

    I believe in Advaita Vedanta philosophy of Hinduism now.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta

    https://youtu.be/-ulidKw6v1U

    A more detailed (introductory) explanation-
    https://youtu.be/tJfM0tyOwjc
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    And I don't mean you have to have a literalist interpretation or practice organised religion as such.

    But has anyone found a different perspective?

    How did it change you, in your view?

    I am someone who was raised atheist my whole life, my parents think my belief is risible, I mentioned it the other day and they see it like a thought crime, and an embarrassment, no-one around me believes it, but I just find their world view quite oppressive now and dogmatic. I think that generation is quite narcissistic generally and convinced of their own worldview in everything, and It think they damaged the world a lot. They seem to have everything according to their wishes and believe the rest of us are unfortunate if we deviate from their views.

    This dry unemotional rationalism, along with the soulless technocratic politics and digital age, had left me feeling utterly frustrated.

    I now am looking back on it as maddeningly narrow...I need a world of ideals, spiritual and political.

    For the first time in my life I understand the perspective of a believer and why militant atheism and the attempt to wipe out faith annoys people a much as it does.
    I used to be Muslim, then atheist, and now I believe in God without following a organised religion.

    My reasons for being dissatisfied with atheism are similar to yours. I was put off by how atheistic thinkers and commentators promoted extreme materialism, rationality and how it looked down on creativity and emotions. New atheism seems to see emotions and imagination as useless and value cold rationality and empirical science.

    In my view, militant atheists are worse than theists because of their hypocrisy. Militant atheists are different to atheists who will debate about religions. Militant atheists will use ad hominem attacks on anyone who disagrees with them and will then criticise theists who do the same thing. Militant atheists will then appeal to scientific theories that are simply theories and try to market them as irrefutable truths.
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    (Original post by cman123)
    Believe what u want and don't force anything down people's throat, as long as it doesn't lead to immoral acts. - good piece of philosophy to live by.

    Remember when it comes to the creation of the universe there are so many different views NOT JUST A GOD who cares about us or even knows that it's created the universe in the first place (the god of aristotle for instance).

    We are human our brains have not evolved to comprehend quantum mechanics or tacle complex philosophical questions, merely to survive. An answer such as GOD to many of the worlds tough questions is simply "the great cop-out", it's intellectually dishonest with the evidence we've been given.

    In the future we may find out that we are soooo wrong about our morals, the way we view the world and our beliefs and how we've derived them. However the agnostic atheist perspective is the most intellectually honest view based on the evidence, it simply suggests that since there's no solid evidence (at all tbh) of the existance of a god like many other things in life we should assume that there is no such thing, until the evidence presents itself.

    Gnosticism when it comes to philosophical inquiries (based on evidence) is simply stupid and intellectually dishonest wheather you're a theist or an atheist. Our brains in the state they're in now may never figure out the answers to these questions but to say a god did it all is simply no solution at all, the answers to these questions if revealed to us now we may not even be able to comprehend.

    Just because something is emotionless it does not mean it's not true look at the natural order of the world does it seem to give two fcks about our existance? i think not. The "truth (won't) set you free" ironicaly enough chances are it will depress the **** out of you. Our emotions are essentially something brought about by evolution in order to help us survive as a species it's not something designed to help us make truth claims about the natural (not supernatural) world.

    Living in a world of ideals is not something that being an atheist excludes, i'm for moral ideals for one since both atheists and theists a like seem to differ all over the place in terms of ethics, and choose what is and is not moral based on arbitrary distinctions derived from illogical premises.

    An atheist world view in many ways is soo much more freeing to the imagination since it does actually open up a whole world of possibilities. Most athiests aren't dogmatic, simply logical and rational and don't let emotions dictate the validity of truth claims but rather evidence.
    I didn't say he created it. I do not know this. He may be the order in it or higher consciousness in it.

    but I've gone from life long athiest to believer, faltering road but did not do it without revelation, and I have not formally practiced organized religion. I'm not a literalist or creationist, for the record, but I now believe that the divinity of Christ is true.

    I disagree regarding the truth- it is liberating and when you find out that god is nothing like you thought it would be, being sold to you by organised religious hypocrites, and/or people with different agendas, it's different.

    I searched for it because I have been forced to live a lot of lies, dealt with sociopaths, moral hypocrisy of the power and consensus- I have seen morality subverted and lived oppression and seen the smugness of people perpetrating evil, I have reached a point of nihlism and then asked for something else that transcended, I wanted a judgement and truth that transcended, for better or worse-so that these people and earthly power would not be the last word in morality, and the whole story of my life...it is better and I feel infinitely better.

    I don't much care about atheist disdain either.(not saying that's you)
    It's very mind expanding.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    I didn't say he created it. I do not know this. He may be the order in it or higher consciousness in it.

    but I've gone from life long athiest to believer, faltering road but did not do it without revelation, and I have not formally practiced organized religion. I'm not a literalist or creationist, for the record, but I now believe that the divinity of Christ is true.

    I disagree regarding the truth- it is liberating and when you find out that god is nothing like you thought it would be, being sold to you by organised religious hypocrites, and/or people with different agendas, it's different.

    I searched for it because I have been forced to live a lot of lies, dealt with sociopaths, moral hypocrisy of the power and consensus- I have seen morality subverted and lived oppression and seen the smugness of people perpetrating evil, I have reached a point of nihlism and then asked for something else that transcended, I wanted a judgement and truth that transcended, for better or worse-so that these people and earthly power would not be the last word in morality, and the whole story of my life...it is better and I feel infinitely better.

    I don't much care about atheist disdain either.(not saying that's you)
    It's very mind expanding.
    Yeah u definitely need a holiday mate , i feel like u've been listening to too much Deepak Chopra.

    "He may be the order in it or higher consciousness in it." - when u use english in such a way your words seem to lose all meaning. I get what you're trying to say - god's beyond explanation and us as human's cannot possibley decribe or begin to explain what he is (the basis of the hinduism btw (mystics)). But when u try and suggest that god is the four fundamental forces in the universe (the order) then the word god seems to lose meaning .

    i don't know why you're soooo frustrated with the so called restriction atheism has, your family seem to me to be gnostic atheists, this is not the type of postion i'm promoting, it's just as rediculous as a christian saying he knows god exists.

    Let's not forget that most buddhists are also agnostic atheists do u really think that they're restricted in a spiritual sense? I think not.

    Don't forget u can be an atheist (for the wrong reasons) and believe that u've had sexual encounters with aliens, or that there's life after death, despite the fact that it goes against evidence.

    You seriously believe that the divinity of christ is true???
    This is the point, u used to be an atheist for the wrong reasons i'm guessing u used to be because that's what ur parents told you. The reason u should have been an atheist is simple: evidence. There is simply no evidence that jesus of nazarath was a divine person, i mean why do not believe that mohammed was a prophet of god?? Or why have u decided that there's no divinity in the Greek or Romans pantheons.You seem to pick and choose what u believe irrespective of evidence:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kh8L_Z_hyc
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    I didn't say he created it. I do not know this. He may be the order in it or higher consciousness in it.

    but I've gone from life long athiest to believer, faltering road but did not do it without revelation, and I have not formally practiced organized religion. I'm not a literalist or creationist, for the record, but I now believe that the divinity of Christ is true.

    I disagree regarding the truth- it is liberating and when you find out that god is nothing like you thought it would be, being sold to you by organised religious hypocrites, and/or people with different agendas, it's different.

    I searched for it because I have been forced to live a lot of lies, dealt with sociopaths, moral hypocrisy of the power and consensus- I have seen morality subverted and lived oppression and seen the smugness of people perpetrating evil, I have reached a point of nihlism and then asked for something else that transcended, I wanted a judgement and truth that transcended, for better or worse-so that these people and earthly power would not be the last word in morality, and the whole story of my life...it is better and I feel infinitely better.

    I don't much care about atheist disdain either.(not saying that's you)
    It's very mind expanding.
    I enjoyed reading your post.

    I'm a Christian, meaning I have looked at the life of Jesus and His teachings and I've connected with God through reading His word. Going to church and hearing good solid preaching totally resounds with my spirit and builds up my faith.

    I think sometimes things can be over complicated and I prefer to say I have a very simple faith. It grounds me in my thoughts (about everything to do with life).

    I often get the impression that some atheists are keen to know God but have a bitterness, pride and resentment against Him too. It's a dichotomy.

    I'm happy for you that you have found God and feel better for it.

    I'm just wondering do you know anything about the Holy Spirit?
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    And I don't mean you have to have a literalist interpretation or practice organised religion as such.

    But has anyone found a different perspective?

    How did it change you, in your view?

    I am someone who was raised atheist my whole life, my parents think my belief is risible, I mentioned it the other day and they see it like a thought crime, and an embarrassment, no-one around me believes it, but I just find their world view quite oppressive now and dogmatic. I think that generation is quite narcissistic generally and convinced of their own worldview in everything, and It think they damaged the world a lot. They seem to have everything according to their wishes and believe the rest of us are unfortunate if we deviate from their views.

    This dry unemotional rationalism, along with the soulless technocratic politics and digital age, had left me feeling utterly frustrated.

    I now am looking back on it as maddeningly narrow...I need a world of ideals, spiritual and political.

    For the first time in my life I understand the perspective of a believer and why militant atheism and the attempt to wipe out faith annoys people a much as it does.
    Your post made my day.
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    (Original post by cman123)
    Yeah u definitely need a holiday mate , i feel like u've been listening to too much Deepak Chopra.

    "He may be the order in it or higher consciousness in it." - when u use english in such a way your words seem to lose all meaning. I get what you're trying to say - god's beyond explanation and us as human's cannot possibley decribe or begin to explain what he is (the basis of the hinduism btw (mystics)). But when u try and suggest that god is the four fundamental forces in the universe (the order) then the word god seems to lose meaning .

    i don't know why you're soooo frustrated with the so called restriction atheism has, your family seem to me to be gnostic atheists, this is not the type of postion i'm promoting, it's just as rediculous as a christian saying he knows god exists.

    Let's not forget that most buddhists are also agnostic atheists do u really think that they're restricted in a spiritual sense? I think not.

    Don't forget u can be an atheist (for the wrong reasons) and believe that u've had sexual encounters with aliens, or that there's life after death, despite the fact that it goes against evidence.

    You seriously believe that the divinity of christ is true???
    This is the point, u used to be an atheist for the wrong reasons i'm guessing u used to be because that's what ur parents told you. The reason u should have been an atheist is simple: evidence. There is simply no evidence that jesus of nazarath was a divine person, i mean why do not believe that mohammed was a prophet of god?? Or why have u decided that there's no divinity in the Greek or Romans pantheons.You seem to pick and choose what u believe irrespective of evidence:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kh8L_Z_hyc
    Ha, I have listened to Chopra but only meditation on youtube. Dunno what his views are.

    I can't really talk about evidence on here, it's personal but it was remarkable and nothing like I expected it to be because of the people who sell it to you.

    I'm not saying the divinity of Christ is certain to me, but having seen what I have I now think it's entirely possible, and that interventions by god is mysterious. I also choose to go with a more firm belief in it because as I'm aware of god it seems more respectful if it is true somehow.

    But I believe in evolution, and science, and not creationism.(Then again if you combine the quantum universe with God you have some unusual possibilities for how reality can vary and be malleable)

    I don't see why it's meaningless to talk about order, I guess I mean moral order beyond us.

    I have my own scientific views about the universe and space time, so I don't really accept the linear 'what came before to make nothing into something argument'. It's more like the universe just is, and space time is complex, time is not linear like we perceive it.

    I see God as being in the infinite, that which is beyond us in the universe, like with the big crunch, the big bang, the singularity point.

    As for why I believe that about Christ, because what I've seen relates to that symbolism.
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    (Original post by arizonaidiot)
    Your post made my day.
    Good.

    Why?
 
 
 
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