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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Your point doesn't stand because you made no point to refute. You just made a baseless assertion which can be dismissed without evidence. Further, existing outside of space and time (whatever that even means) is irrelevant to the argument that complexity does or doesn't require a creator.
    It's not a baseless assertion because it cannot be dismissed entirely. If the divine power, or creator behind the Universe is not subjected to the limitations that govern our Universe then he does not need to have been created in the first place, which was the argument that you made in the first place (i.e. Who created God?).

    Throwing up the same old sophomoric Atheist argument of "Who created God then?" has already been answered, and none of the Atheists have been able to disprove the Theological responses to such arguments. If God is a timeless, immaterial and eternal being, he does not have to have been created in the first place.
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    (Original post by Golden State)
    It's not a baseless assertion because it cannot be dismissed entirely. If the divine power, or creator behind the Universe is not subjected to the limitations that govern our Universe then he does not need to have been created in the first place, which was the argument that you made in the first place (i.e. Who created God?).
    Well technically it is a baseless assertion, in that it is not supported by any evidence.

    But once again, that's special pleading. You cannot in one breath say the universe's complexity requires a creator, but the creator's doesn't. You're also making the basic error of conflating the laws within the universe to the creation of the universe itself, where those same laws are not thought to apply.

    Throwing up the same old sophomoric Atheist argument of "Who created God then?" has already been answered, and none of the Atheists have been able to disprove the Theological responses to such arguments. If God is a timeless, immaterial and eternal being, he does not have to have been created in the first place.
    The question has not been answered, it is nothing more than special pleading and baseless assertions made by theists. You're trying to define a god into existence and that isn't proof. Substitute "God" for "timeless, immaterial, eternal, magical rabbit" and it highlights the absurdity of your position.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    And I don't mean you have to have a literalist interpretation or practice organised religion as such.

    But has anyone found a different perspective?

    How did it change you, in your view?

    I am someone who was raised atheist my whole life, my parents think my belief is risible, I mentioned it the other day and they see it like a thought crime, and an embarrassment, no-one around me believes it, but I just find their world view quite oppressive now and dogmatic. I think that generation is quite narcissistic generally and convinced of their own worldview in everything, and It think they damaged the world a lot. They seem to have everything according to their wishes and believe the rest of us are unfortunate if we deviate from their views.

    This dry unemotional rationalism, along with the soulless technocratic politics and digital age, had left me feeling utterly frustrated.

    I now am looking back on it as maddeningly narrow...I need a world of ideals, spiritual and political.

    For the first time in my life I understand the perspective of a believer and why militant atheism and the attempt to wipe out faith annoys people a much as it does.
    I'm an agnostic. The worst type of faith.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well technically it is a baseless assertion, in that it is not supported by any evidence.

    But once again, that's special pleading. You cannot in one breath say the universe's complexity requires a creator, but the creator's doesn't. You're also making the basic error of conflating the laws within the universe to the creation of the universe itself, where those same laws are not thought to apply.



    The question has not been answered, it is nothing more than special pleading and baseless assertions made by theists. You're trying to define a god into existence and that isn't proof. Substitute "God" for "timeless, immaterial, eternal, magical rabbit" and it highlights the absurdity of your position.
    Actually, God or whatever divine thing created the Universe can never exclusively be a "magical rabbit" as it is immaterial and timeless, and so is not bound by the laws of the Universe. So, this is an absurd point you make. A rabbit is a species of animal that has been created through the long process of evolution, and is the product of time space and matter interacting over a large period of time.

    And so God or a creator can never exclusively be something that is the result of time space and matter acting upon itself if a God or creator is to be immaterial, timeless and eternal. God can be both a magical rabbit, and in his original form if he so desired. But, he cannot be exclusively a magical rabbit.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    The question has not been answered, it is nothing more than special pleading and baseless assertions made by theists. You're trying to define a god into existence and that isn't proof. Substitute "God" for "timeless, immaterial, eternal, magical rabbit" and it highlights the absurdity of your position.
    How did rabbits come into existence?
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    (Original post by Golden State)
    Actually, God or whatever divine thing created the Universe can never exclusively be a "magical rabbit" as it is immaterial and timeless, and so is not bound by the laws of the Universe.
    Baseless claim. Why does a being need to be immaterial? There is no logical requirement for an omnipotent being to not be able to have a material body and a magical, all-powerful rabbit would not, by your definition, need to be bound by the universe's laws either.

    So, this is an absurd point you make. A rabbit is a species of animal that has been created through the long process of evolution, and is the product of time space and matter interacting over a large period of time.
    But you are speaking about an Earth rabbit, not an omnipotent, magical, timeless rabbit, so the point still stands.

    And so God or a creator can never exclusively be something that is the result of time space and matter acting upon itself if a God or creator is to be immaterial, timeless and eternal. God can be both a magical rabbit, and in his original form if he so desired. But, he cannot be exclusively a magical rabbit.
    I have already dealt with this point, as to why a god can be material. Come to think of it, you haven't actually explained, why logically, a deity can not be made up of or interact with the things it creates. It's just an assertion, but not one founded in any intrinsic logic/contradiction.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    How did rabbits come into existence?
    Earth rabbits came about by evolution. But a magical, all-powerful rabbit has always existed.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Earth rabbits came about by evolution. But a magical, all-powerful rabbit has always existed.
    Evolution, and how did evolution begin?

    (Aside from Big bang theory)
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    Evolution, and how did evolution begin?

    (Aside from Big bang theory)
    MiszshorTea786, this isn't a discussion about how evolution began. That's a huge separate discussion and not the purpose of this thread.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    MiszshorTea786, this isn't a discussion about how evolution began. That's a huge separate discussion and not the purpose of this thread.
    Now don't dodge away from the intial questioning my reasoning at the end would explain all.

    Now if you do not mind, Planta aside from the big bang theory, how did evolution begin?

    Since when did you start caring about threads de-railing?

    I and you always seem to hijack the Islam threads.
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    Belief/faith is for the weak. Of course some of us will crumble.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    Now don't dodge away from the intial questioning my reasoning at the end would explain all.

    Now if you do not mind, Planta aside from the big bang theory, how did evolution begin?
    See post 109.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    See post 109.
    Answer the question Planta, and stop beating around the bush.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    Answer the question Planta, and stop beating around the bush.
    See post 109. If you already have reasoning, then produce it, otherwise see post 109.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    See post 109. If you already have reasoning, then produce it, otherwise see post 109.
    Not until you answer my question. I ask for the third time, how did evolution begin?
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    (Original post by Kushala Daora)
    I'm an agnostic. The worst type of faith.
    Why is it the worst?
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    Not until you answer my question. I ask for the third time, how did evolution begin?
    Evolution is a mystery. Full of change that no one sees.
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    (Original post by Golden State)
    Evolution is a mystery. Full of change that no one sees.
    That can be debatable.
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    If you’re agnostic then you should be looking for a religon to follow asap. Arent you scared?
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    (Original post by Jheinexx)
    If you’re agnostic then you should be looking for a religon to follow asap. Arent you scared?
    Should fear motivate religious belief?
 
 
 
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