Turn on thread page Beta

Labour discussing plans to include trans women on women only shortlists watch

    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Conceited)
    No, it's about yourself funnily enough.
    You are describing yourself immensely well though. Well done!
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    You are describing yourself immensely well though. Well done!
    Alright pal.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)

    I personally disagree: it’s the current year, why are they not having trans only shortlists as well?
    The question that you should be asking is why do we have these sexist short-lists in a democracy to begin with?

    Neither women nor trans nor any other group of people should have short-lists in parliament.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Unkilled)
    No, they are a man if they have a penis.
    So you would accept that a trans man who gets phalloplastic surgery is a man then?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    The first line from the American psychiatric association ....

    Gender dysphoria involves a conflict between a person's physical or assigned gender and the gender with which he/she/they identify.

    That’s transgender
    Do you accept the entirety of the APA article, or do you just want to pick the bits you like and dismiss any bits you don't?
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Do you accept the entirety of the APA article, or do you just want to pick the bits you like and dismiss any bits you don't?
    Depends the apa is susceptible to lobby groups and as such they have added some strange things to their DSM
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    So you would accept that a trans man who gets phalloplastic surgery is a man then?
    No. They still have XY chromosomes.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Do you accept the entirety of the APA article, or do you just want to pick the bits you like and dismiss any bits you don't?
    Yeah. I'm happy with that definition. It perfectly describes the delusion.

    And what is this I keep seeing about "assigned gender"? Its not like the doctor has two slots for female and ten for male, is it? He doesn't assign you a gender. You already have a gender.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CookieButter)
    The question that you should be asking is why do we have these sexist short-lists in a democracy to begin with?

    Neither women nor trans nor any other group of people should have short-lists in parliament.
    Yes.
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    The fact that we have some people actually believing that even a professional female football team would be able to compete with a fair standard male youth team, given the physicality of the game, how prevalent it is to the male youth of this country and our knowledge of the human body re testosterone, bone density, muscle mass....

    IS
    JUST
    COMPLETELY
    RIDICULOUS
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    Depends the apa is susceptible to lobby groups and as such they have added some strange things to their DSM
    So if that makes it unreliable, why did you cite it?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Unkilled)
    No. They still have XY chromosomes.
    (I'm assuming you mean XX?)

    This is one of the most blatant cases of moving the goalposts I've ever seen. You've literally just claimed "they are a man if they have a penis", and now you're claiming it's actually about chromosomes instead? So which is it?

    Also, it's long been recognised that using chromosomes to judge sex or gender is problematic. Even outside of trans issues, there are women who are XY or single-X, men who are XXY or XYY, and several other rarer conditions. This is a large part of the reason why athletics stopped sex verification by chromosome testing in 1996 - there were simply too many exceptions.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Unkilled)
    Yeah. I'm happy with that definition. It perfectly describes the delusion.

    And what is this I keep seeing about "assigned gender"? Its not like the doctor has two slots for female and ten for male, is it? He doesn't assign you a gender. You already have a gender.
    "I'm happy with the article. Here's a bit I'm not happy with."

    Assigned gender refers to what the doctor delivering the baby said - boy or girl. And no, that isn't always straightforward.

    That you keep pushing the essentialist argument is pretty demonstrative of why this "debate" never goes anywhere.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    So if that makes it unreliable, why did you cite it?
    Because they are the number one resource after independent research papers followed by the ICD listings.
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    Because they are the number one resource after independent research papers followed by the ICD listings.
    And does that go away for the parts of the article that contradict your argument?

    For instance, the article affirms the possibility of "social and legal transition to the desired gender" and even "transition to the opposite sex". Yet presumably, you deny that these transitions are "real"?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    "I'm happy with the article. Here's a bit I'm not happy with."

    Assigned gender refers to what the doctor delivering the baby said - boy or girl. And no, that isn't always straightforward.

    That you keep pushing the essentialist argument is pretty demonstrative of why this "debate" never goes anywhere.
    Assigned sex. And yes it is largely based on penis yes/no, but largely that will reflect further biology making someone male or female. Some exceptions, or overlap in sex traits, do not imply people can go "oh let me change my gender, oh and btw gender is sex so my biology is suddenly changed".

    Learn the difference between sex and gender people.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    (I'm assuming you mean XX?)

    This is one of the most blatant cases of moving the goalposts I've ever seen. You've literally just claimed "they are a man if they have a penis", and now you're claiming it's actually about chromosomes instead? So which is it?

    Also, it's long been recognised that using chromosomes to judge sex or gender is problematic. Even outside of trans issues, there are women who are XY or single-X, men who are XXY or XYY, and several other rarer conditions. This is a large part of the reason why athletics stopped sex verification by chromosome testing in 1996 - there were simply too many exceptions.
    You are quite right, however, medical exceptions do not mean someone who is in fact XY can say well sorry I am XX. The fact that there is some evidence that humans are on a spectrum of the several sex traits we have, does not mean there are 7 billion sexes in the world. 2 sexes for reproduction.

    If you want to have 7 billion genders fine, people can be whatever they want. But in areas where sex segregation matters, you cannot force yourself over it by "muh gender". And sex very much matters for women's rights. Sex very much matters in women's sports. In women's shelters, to name a few key ones.

    Edit: I wrote XY twice at first, corrected it.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    Assigned sex. And yes it is largely based on penis yes/no, but largely that will reflect further biology making someone male or female. Some exceptions, or overlap in sex traits, do not imply people can go "oh let me change my gender, oh and btw gender is sex so my biology is suddenly changed".

    Learn the difference between sex and gender people.
    I don't really object to the argument that there are two things, sex and gender, and that transgender people are cases of the two not matching up. I think it's often used over-simplistically, but it avoids an essentialist lens, which in my view is the important thing.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    You are quite right, however, medical exceptions do not mean someone who is in fact XY can say well sorry I am XY. The fact that there is some evidence that humans are on a spectrum of the several sex traits we have, does not mean there are 7 billion sexes in the world. 2 sexes for reproduction.

    If you want to have 7 billion genders fine, people can be whatever they want. But in areas where sex segregation matters, you cannot force yourself over it by "muh gender". And sex very much matters for women's rights. Sex very much matters in women's sports. In women's shelters, to name a few key ones.
    I think discussing the "number of genders/sexes" is a largely unproductive question. I think it's much more helpful to think of it as a continuum with two ends. The vast majority of people are close enough to one end or the other to be able to confidently say which side of the spectrum they are on, but there are a handful around the middle who don't know or are at some level unsure.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    I don't really object to the argument that there are two things, sex and gender, and that transgender people are cases of the two not matching up. I think it's often used over-simplistically, but it avoids an essentialist lens, which in my view is the important thing.
    But the distinction is absolutely vital. Gender is not protected. Sex is. By erasing sex and creating 'gender identity", they are able to erase sex protected rights.

    Women cannot talk about menstruation anymore because "not all women menstruate". It is offending to trans women to say "women" when talking about menstruation. Further up I linked to the Oxford (or cam, i dont remember now) women's officer. She calls them "our menstruating students". Her first heading is "trans rights". She isn't LGBT.

    If sex is no longer protected, then women's sports will become a sausage fest of failed male athletes who just want to win but can't in men's.

    And I could go on. Point is, sex matters.
 
 
 

1,181

students online now

800,000+

Exam discussions

Find your exam discussion here

Poll
Should predicted grades be removed from the uni application process
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.