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Labour discussing plans to include trans women on women only shortlists watch

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    (Original post by yudothis)
    And I am telling you that it's nonsense to have 'categories' for everything.

    Can you imagine having 10 different 100m competitions at the Olympics based on 10 'categories'? Not only is that ludicrous, no one would care about 90% of those, they'd care about the fastest. Or could you imagine all the short sprinters wanting to beat Bolt nah sorry, he is too tall, he is in a different category. They'd be furious, too.

    Sorry, but your idea is insane.
    You managed to skip past the answer to your original question, why no response? Can’t come up with a reason we should be separated by gender in those sports?

    Yet we don’t have anything to back up that men will “always” beat women, because no one gets the chance. Your opinion is on the side of the many, I doubt anything will change any time soon. I have my opinion that women are underestimated in sport and that things should change. But hey, my idea is insane so who cares!
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    The sheer amount of transphobia and misunderstanding of sex & gender in this thread is f*cking disgusting. Some TSR users could really do with meeting a trans person, and realising they're not "men in drag" or mentally ill, but normal humans deserving of respect. F*ck me the internet sometimes depresses me.
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    You managed to skip past the answer to your original question, why no response? Can’t come up with a reason we should be separated by gender in those sports?

    Yet we don’t have anything to back up that men will “always” beat women, because no one gets the chance. Your opinion is on the side of the many, I doubt anything will change any time soon. I have my opinion that women are underestimated in sport and that things should change. But hey, my idea is insane so who cares!
    It's insane for many reasons. Not only is it what trans women don't want anyway (they want to beat women, not men) so there is almost no one arguing for this. In fact, I doubt you would find many people that agree with you. Furthermore, pretty much every data point contradicts you. In these individual sports you mention, just compare stats. Ironically, the Battle of the Sexes led to more acceptance of women's tennis in its own right rather than for calls "let women play against men".

    And because we are a species that is separated into two groups for reproduction and those groups have different characteristics and physical attributes. Now you are idea is to go even further and look at even more characteristics within those groups like weight and height. And of course 'skill', though why anyone but the most skilled should take part in the top competitions is a mystery anyway. E.g. are you suggesting people in the top skill category should not attend because they didn't qualify, for the top category they belong to, but people in the lower skill should have their part, because that's how sports should be categorized according to you?

    Anyway, at what point do you want to stop? Weight classes of 5kg range. 4? 3? 2? 1? 1/2? Height classes of 10cm, 8cm or just 2cm? It's completely arbitrary and a bureaucratic nightmare. The para olympics is already a shining example of people trying to cheat classes. And as I said, which of the ten 100m finals do you think people would watch? Do you think women in sports would be watched more or less?

    ps some Australian U16 boy's team beat the Lionesses. I think they are great. But some random boys team from the mighty footballing nation beat one of the top women's teams. Yea, I can totally see women wanting to participate in football if they were only competing against men. Because they would not be in the top women's league and playing at the women's World Cup, but instead in some *****y 'category' league that no spectator would watch.
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    (Original post by plklupu)
    The sheer amount of transphobia and misunderstanding of sex & gender in this thread is f*cking disgusting. Some TSR users could really do with meeting a trans person, and realising they're not "men in drag" or mentally ill, but normal humans deserving of respect. F*ck me the internet sometimes depresses me.
    But they are mentally ill.... gender dysforia
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    It's insane for many reasons. Not only is it what trans women don't want anyway (they want to beat women, not men) so there is almost no one arguing for this. In fact, I doubt you would find many people that agree with you. Furthermore, pretty much every data point contradicts you. In these individual sports you mention, just compare stats. Ironically, the Battle of the Sexes led to more acceptance of women's tennis in its own right rather than for calls "let women play against men".

    And because we are a species that is separated into two groups for reproduction and those groups have different characteristics and physical attributes. Now you are idea is to go even further and look at even more characteristics within those groups like weight and height. And of course 'skill', though why anyone but the most skilled should take part in the top competitions is a mystery anyway. E.g. are you suggesting people in the top skill category should not attend because they didn't qualify, for the top category they belong to, but people in the lower skill should have their part, because that's how sports should be categorized according to you?

    Anyway, at what point do you want to stop? Weight classes of 5kg range. 4? 3? 2? 1? 1/2? Height classes of 10cm, 8cm or just 2cm? It's completely arbitrary and a bureaucratic nightmare. The para olympics is already a shining example of people trying to cheat classes. And as I said, which of the ten 100m finals do you think people would watch? Do you think women in sports would be watched more or less?

    ps some Australian U16 boy's team beat the Lionesses. I think they are great. But some random boys team from the mighty footballing nation beat one of the top women's teams. Yea, I can totally see women wanting to participate in football if they were only competing against men. Because they would not be in the top women's league and playing at the women's World Cup, but instead in some *****y 'category' league that no spectator would watch.
    I never claimed to have some kind of master plan, it’s just my opinion. I don’t even watch or particularly care about sports so I really cba to get into it all, I just think women are just as capable as men given an even playing field, since physical strength seems to be the only factor that’s unmatchable imo

    Really didn’t want a whole debate on this & regretted bringing it up as I typed it lmaooo
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    I never claimed to have some kind of master plan, it’s just my opinion. I don’t even watch or particularly care about sports so I really cba to get into it all, I just think women are just as capable as men given an even playing field, since physical strength seems to be the only factor that’s unmatchable imo

    Really didn’t want a whole debate on this & regretted bringing it up as I typed it lmaooo
    Don't watch or care but have such an outlandish opinion.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Don't watch or care but have such an outlandish opinion.
    I also believe in aliens 👽
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    (Original post by paul514)
    But they are mentally ill.... gender dysforia
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

    It's not an "illness," (look, it says it in the 4th paragraph of the top Google result, on the NHS' official website) and definitely not something negative like transphobes would have you believe.
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    (Original post by plklupu)
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

    It's not an "illness," (look, it says it in the 4th paragraph of the top Google result, on the NHS' official website) and definitely not something negative like transphobes would have you believe.
    Look at gender dysphoria in the dsm 5 which is the manual that classifies mental health and you will clearly see gender dysphoria is a trans gender person

    Ps the nhs also treats it as a mental health problem regardless what it’s website says.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    ...and you will clearly see gender dysphoria is a trans gender person .
    Well yeah, gender dysphoria and being trans are linked... obviously... not sure what your point is here

    (Original post by paul514)
    Ps the nhs also treats it as a mental health problem regardless what it’s website says.
    Treating a condition, whatever that treatment may entail, is not the same as saying trans people ill.
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    (Original post by plklupu)
    Treating a condition, whatever that treatment may entail, is not the same as saying trans people ill.
    You said they aren’t mentally ill but they have gender dysphoria which is what leads to becoming transgender.

    It’s classified like that by the people who classify mental disorders and it’s treated like a mental illness by the nhs.

    My point? It’s exactly what I just said.

    Be nice to trans people who are behaving like regular people but I’m not going to accept them as women, because they aren’t.

    That’s how most people feel
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    (Original post by paul514)
    You said they aren’t mentally ill but they have gender dysphoria which is what leads to becoming transgender.

    It’s classified like that by the people who classify mental disorders and it’s treated like a mental illness by the nhs.

    My point? It’s exactly what I just said.

    Be nice to trans people who are behaving like regular people but I’m not going to accept them as women, because they aren’t.

    That’s how most people feel
    Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness. It's treated, but it's not an illness. It's not an ailment that requires a "cure."

    Shame you can't accept someone as the gender they identify as. There's more to gender than genitals and chromosomes.

    I'd love if you could put a number & source on that "most," and since when was majority opinion necessarily correct?
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    (Original post by plklupu)
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

    It's not an "illness," (look, it says it in the 4th paragraph of the top Google result, on the NHS' official website) and definitely not something negative like transphobes would have you believe.
    Except most trans people nowadays do not suffer from gender dysphoria. They have no diagnosed condition. Certainly kids being pressured into believing they are trans because they present stereotypes of the gender opposite to their biological sex aren't.
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    @Trinculo they aren’t men though, thats the whole point. If you are trans and you identify as a women then by definition of being a trans-woman, you ARE a woman
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    Edit. I can’t be bothered 😂
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    (Original post by EqualitySloth)
    @Trinculo they aren’t men though, thats the whole point. If you are trans and you identify as a women then by definition of being a trans-woman, you ARE a woman
    Yes, but that's from the subjective viewpoint of a trans-person/any individual.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Yes the key element of fascism is militant and rutheless support for LGBT rights.
    Just read an interesting thread elsewhere about speaking up as a gender-critical person in the workplace. Almost all of the replies were that people don't dare do it for fear of being labelled transphobic and losing their job. Yes, TRA is so so kind and inclusive and not oppressive at all.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Just read an interesting thread elsewhere about speaking up as a gender-critical person in the workplace. Almost all of the replies were that people don't dare do it for fear of being labelled transphobic and losing their job. Yes, TRA is so so kind and inclusive and not oppressive at all.
    I don't get how you are confusing that with fear of torture and execution. It;s basically just existing in polite society.

    It also isn't my experienjce of the workplace. I've heard racist language and what have you. Although my workplace has always been very working class so maybe that has something to do with it. Some old polish lady was shocked with some Sun peice on some none heterosexual relations. I didn't bite her head off. I imagine it is different in more liberal professional industries.

    Also welcome to capitalism where you have to conform in the workplace. You have social liberal values combined with terrible workers rights and bargaining power.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I don't get how you are confusing that with fear of execution.
    I don't get how you are confusing fascism with murder.

    I also love how you ignore everything pointed out to you just so you can keep living in your bubble.

    "Also welcome to capitalism where you have to conform in the workplace."

    A lot of them were from people working in academia and public jobs. Not to mention your post is quite simply wrong. It isn't part of capitalism to be fired for holding different political opinions.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    I don't get how you are confusing fascism with murder.

    I also love how you ignore everything pointed out to you just so you can keep living in your bubble.

    "Also welcome to capitalism where you have to conform in the workplace."

    A lot of them were from people working in academia and public jobs. Not to mention your post is quite simply wrong. It isn't part of capitalism to be fired for holding different political opinions.
    You seem to think fear of being viewed a bigot is the same as the type of fear you get in a police state like Nazi Germany where dissedents are punished with death.
 
 
 
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