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Labour discussing plans to include trans women on women only shortlists watch

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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    You seem to think fear of being viewed a bigot is the same as the type of fear you get in a police state like Nazi Germany where dissedents are punished with death.
    Not fear of being viewed a bigot. Fear of losing ones job, ones livelihood. You are so dishonest. Can't actually engage with any argument.

    But well, at least you are at a point where all you can say is "well they (being TRAs) aren't as bad as Nazis".

    https://twitter.com/bo_novak/status/961685454453166080

    Read that thread to learn what trans activism is doing to kids (mostly girls).
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    Maybe they’d out perform their cis opponents, but they would be slated in the press, probably find it very difficult to get to professional level due to people’s negative views. If they were only identifying as a women but weren’t actually trans, I highly doubt other men would respect them for joining a womans team just so they could actually stand a chance at winning. I doubt women would get on with this person knowing they were exploiting opportunities made to make it easier for minorities. A career identifying as a fake trans women wouldn’t really benefit a man at all. How far would this person go to convince people? Is there really any benefit to that individual?

    I’m going to be opening a whole other can of worms here but I don’t think athletics should be divided by gender, but by height and weight. Kind of like weight categories in fighting. I believe that a woman and a man, if given the same training, the same diet, that are similar in build, can compete as equals. Idk how it would work in team sports, and I doubt people will seriously consider something like this for a looot of years.
    actually men have greater muscle mass and power output than women. testosterone (which men have more of) aids in the building of muscle and increasing muscle output while estrogen (which women have more of) aids in reducing fatigue. So physically there is a large difference that cannot be negated if they were to have the same type of diet or training.

    https://www.livestrong.com/article/2...than-a-female/

    https://www.livestrong.com/article/2...than-a-female/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8477683/
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Not fear of being viewed a bigot. Fear of losing ones job, ones livelihood. You are so dishonest. Can't actually engage with any argument.
    Still not a police state.You still have all your human rights, just no job XD

    If you went round calling your black collegues n*gger you would loose your job at any employer who strictly observed equality laws.

    You are just describing regular capitalism. Of which you may have noticed I am not a fan. In my prefered system everyone would get a basic income. So even the bigots would be able to but food on thier table.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Still not a police state.You still have all your human rights, just no job XD

    If you went round calling your black collegues n*gger you would loose your job at any employer who strictly observed equality laws.

    You are just describing regular capitalism. Of which you may have noticed I am not a fan. In my prefered system everyone would get a basic income. So even the bigots would be able to but food on thier table.
    You think gender critical people and people opposing self ID are akin to people calling others "*******"?

    Says a lot about you.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    This kind of thing is exactly the problem when you have several groups of protest all converging under one general banner (i.e. the liberal left). There are completely incompatible values with no middle ground.

    By far and away the biggest problem is not so much the values or wishes of transgender people, but that LGBT+ and feminism have almost nothing to do with one another and are also internally incoherent. LGB is one thing. Trans is another, "+" makes everything a nightmare for everyone, and the concept of Trans and "+" are completely at odds with the values of feminism.

    What is the point of fighting for womens rights if any man can simply say that he is a woman?

    If you have all-women shortlists that can have men on it.......
    This.

    I am fairly supportive of equality for LGB people but the others latch onto them like a parasite politically.

    It's one thing to support people being treated the same, it's another to damage traditional gender norms.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    You think gender critical people and people opposing self ID are akin to people calling others "*******"?

    Says a lot about you.
    I don't care what you or othjers think about me. It's irrelevent.

    But no I don't think they are the same and you wound;t get sacked from a job for say saying you don;t agree with trans women being on all women shortlists during a tea brake. You might get in an argument with a colleague or something but unless you are a snowflake... so what? Disagreement is a part of life. Is this was you were alluding to? If so, you've just got to man up.

    What you would get sacked for (or should) is if there was a Trans colleague and you were harrassing them. Just like black people should be able to work in an enviroment free from racism trans poeple should be able to work in an enviroment free from trans bigotry. That is what i was refering to.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I don't care what you or othjers think about me. It's irrelevent.

    But no I don't think they are the same and you wound;t get sacked from a job for say saying you don;t agree with trans women being on all women shortlists during a tea brake. You might get in an argument with a colleague or something but unless you are a snowflake... so what? Disagreement is a part of life. Is this was you were alluding to? If so, you've just got to man up.

    What you would get sacked for (or should) is if there was a Trans colleague and you were harrassing them. Just like black people should be able to work in an enviroment free from racism trans poeple should be able to work in an enviroment free from trans bigotry. That is what i was refering to.
    Oh you are so naive. You have absolutely no idea, do you? Wake up, you will very well get fired, or frozen out, no more promotions, ostracized. You clearly show a complete lack of understanding how office politics works, how things are like in academia and public office (which actually employ a lot of people, particularly people interested in this topic).

    This isn't about harassing trans work colleagues. It's simply voicing an opinion that goes against the latest liberal fad. Academics at universities are particularly affected. Look at Canada, they are further along this route than the UK and professors are attacked by students, have to go to court, which costs not only money but a huge amount of stress and drain on mental well being (ironically, that is exactly what you liberals claim to try and help for everyone, well of course everyone who blindly follows your dogma). This is about saying something and someone else screaming "transphobic" and putting HR on your ass. Allegations are already enough. Doctors are afraid to be medically accurate just so they won't be accused of transphobia by people.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    This.

    I am fairly supportive of equality for LGB people but the others latch onto them like a parasite politically.

    It's one thing to support people being treated the same, it's another to damage traditional gender norms.
    Have you not seen the latest trans activism?

    They don't want to be treated the same. They want to be treated superior.

    If you have ever had to endure a diversity training created and led by a trans person, it inevitably will consists of "things you need to do to make me feel comfortable". There is a huge part of the agenda that consists of severely narcissistic individuals who just want to be in the spotlight. There are more and more trans people on twitter speaking out recently. Of course they are then bombarded with abuse because they don't follow dogma anymore.

    But as you rightly point out, LGB would do well to rid themselves of the T (and the Q and the +, all of those are inherently homophobic and all overpowering. They have hijacked LGB).
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Have you not seen the latest trans activism?

    They don't want to be treated the same. They want to be treated superior.

    If you have ever had to endure a diversity training created and led by a trans person, it inevitably will consists of "things you need to do to make me feel comfortable". There is a huge part of the agenda that consists of severely narcissistic individuals who just want to be in the spotlight. There are more and more trans people on twitter speaking out recently. Of course they are then bombarded with abuse because they don't follow dogma anymore.

    But as you rightly point out, LGB would do well to rid themselves of the T (and the Q and the +, all of those are inherently homophobic and all overpowering. They have hijacked LGB).
    What exactly are trans people asking for that would make them superior?

    (I’m not looking to argue, I genuinely haven’t heard this before and am curious as personally I haven’t seen any demands that would make trans people superior)
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    What exactly are trans people asking for that would make them superior?

    (I’m not looking to argue, I genuinely haven’t heard this before and am curious as personally I haven’t seen any demands that would make trans people superior)
    I wouldn't argue that they want to be superior, either. However, there does seem to be an agenda of making being LGBT "special". This is not true. You're not special because of your sexuality or gendericity or whatever. Don't make your sexuality your best quality. Be respected for something other than being Gay.

    Also, I don't harbor any hatred towards members of the gay community. I just hate their propaganda. I mean, look at this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uem7QFp0uKY

    Seriously, I don't have a problem with their sexuality. I just have a problem with them saying it so loudly! I wouldn't like it if every straight guy on the planet was wondering around saying how much they love vaginas.

    This being said, I think that LGBT politics are actually separate from gay people as a whole. One is a propaganda movement, and one is a group of people. Take your pick.
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    (Original post by Unkilled)
    I wouldn't argue that they want to be superior, either. However, there does seem to be an agenda of making being LGBT "special". This is not true. You're not special because of your sexuality or gendericity or whatever. Don't make your sexuality your best quality. Be respected for something other than being Gay.

    Also, I don't harbor any hatred towards members of the gay community. I just hate their propaganda. I mean, look at this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uem7QFp0uKY

    Seriously, I don't have a problem with their sexuality. I just have a problem with them saying it so loudly! I wouldn't like it if every straight guy on the planet was wondering around saying how much they love vaginas.

    This being said, I think that LGBT politics are actually separate from gay people as a whole. One is a propaganda movement, and one is a group of people. Take your pick.
    Yeah I agree with you to an extent, if all someone talks about is their sexuality it’s just boring. But i’m all for people being proud of their sexuality, especially if they come from a very anti-gay family and went through a lot to be able to live a life without being persecuted for being gay.

    Not on board with the extremists wanting all white straight cis people to be punished for having acceptance, or like you said wanting to be special for being LGBT.
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    Yeah I agree with you to an extent, if all someone talks about is their sexuality it’s just boring. But i’m all for people being proud of their sexuality, especially if they come from a very anti-gay family and went through a lot to be able to live a life without being persecuted for being gay.

    Not on board with the extremists wanting all white straight cis people to be punished for having acceptance, or like you said wanting to be special for being LGBT.
    Sure. You can be proud of your sexuality. No problem there. I'm just confused as to why there isn't a straight pride parade.
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    What exactly are trans people asking for that would make them superior?

    (I’m not looking to argue, I genuinely haven’t heard this before and am curious as personally I haven’t seen any demands that would make trans people superior)
    Have you not followed the latest agenda? It's all about "we want" "we need you to..." and anyone saying "wait a minute" is viciously abused for being "transphobic".
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    (Original post by Unkilled)
    Sure. You can be proud of your sexuality. No problem there. I'm just confused as to why there isn't a straight pride parade.
    Has anyone tried to make one?
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    Has anyone tried to make one?
    I don't think so. I wouldn't, though. You'll be court marshaled and shot by the progressives.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Have you not followed the latest agenda? It's all about "we want" "we need you to..." and anyone saying "wait a minute" is viciously abused for being "transphobic".
    I don’t have a lot of agenda based knowledge tbh! What are trans people wanting that will make them superior to cis people? I’m not saying it isn’t happening, but is there anything to back up the claims that it is?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Have you not followed the latest agenda? It's all about "we want" "we need you to..." and anyone saying "wait a minute" is viciously abused for being "transphobic".
    Well basically, when a non-LGBT person says the word "and", they are called (insert identity politics movement we all hate here)phobic and publicly executed.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Have you not seen the latest trans activism?

    They don't want to be treated the same. They want to be treated superior.

    If you have ever had to endure a diversity training created and led by a trans person, it inevitably will consists of "things you need to do to make me feel comfortable". There is a huge part of the agenda that consists of severely narcissistic individuals who just want to be in the spotlight. There are more and more trans people on twitter speaking out recently. Of course they are then bombarded with abuse because they don't follow dogma anymore.

    But as you rightly point out, LGB would do well to rid themselves of the T (and the Q and the +, all of those are inherently homophobic and all overpowering. They have hijacked LGB).
    Yep. The LGBTQRSTUVWXYZABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP movement needs to chuck something out...

    Why don't we just change it back to "gay"? Sorry, not inclusive enough.
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    (Original post by Unkilled)
    Sure. You can be proud of your sexuality. No problem there. I'm just confused as to why there isn't a straight pride parade.
    No history of oppression there with matters that are relevant today. That's why.
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    (Original post by cat_mac)
    I don’t have a lot of agenda based knowledge tbh! What are trans people wanting that will make them superior to cis people? I’m not saying it isn’t happening, but is there anything to back up the claims that it is?
    Um, just follow the debate...
 
 
 

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