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    (Original post by LostAccount)
    Ah yes, let's just employ Emma Watson to be the Senior Lecturer on History of Magic for 75 000 a year with her two students.

    Nothing screams 'efficiency' and 'value for money' as people being given money like water out of the tap for teaching 3 kids on bursaries ballet dancing.

    You know what, I don't personally care.

    However, my empathy on this issue with the lecturers varies with how lecturers perceive their kin, and if the majority of them do actually believe that every course from Women's Studies and History of the Spade should be paid the same as Neuroscience and Computer Science, then frankly I won't even shed a sigh for their loss of pensions. They're not fit to work in a system where rationality is (supposed to be) a requirement.

    Those who have a brain will go to the private sector, and chances are anyone who does have the above-mentioned mindset of "EQUALITY FOR ALL!" will not bother going to the private sector and will stay in academia irrespective of how much they lose in pensions, so cutting pensions will make no difference to staffing numbers.

    Cutting away excess wages from the less demanding industries will not only allow the university to be more competitive in the market for STEM lecturers (and other higher demanding industries), and attracting higher quality lecturers, but also likely still be able to pay higher wages for things like creative industries and psychology than the market rate, hence still maintaining an aura of 'fairness' or 'living wage' or call it what you want.

    A newly employed lecturer in medicine and finance will be earning less than a graduate 6 months after graduation.
    A newly employed lecturer in creative industries will be earning more than an average person 30 years into their career.


    Has Emma Watson published loads of work in her field? Is it well reviewed? Is she good at lecturing students?

    . Plus womans studies isn't the only alternative to STEM in existence. Most courses will be grouped into departments. Departments covering humanities will have massive amounts of undergrads.

    As i said, at nearly every uni it's more than you'd see in their STEM courses. Definitely more than in engineering and medicine. By your own rationale, this is justification to up their lecturer wages.


    I'm curious as to why you think anything other than how good the lecturer is + their academic background should affect WAGES. At the end of the day, a History and Biology lecturer do the same job. Educate, lead research groups (or research themselves) and mark work. Shouldn't matter that they're educating different subject matters. But hey that's just my opinion.

    I feel the conclusion drawn from your last point should be upping everyone lecturers wages. Not slashing some peoples. I'm aware that this has to come at the expense of something. But i can think of much better things to cut than wages of humanity lecturers. The amount we spend on military or anything nuclear related makes me facepalm.
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    (Original post by lucabrasi98)
    I feel the conclusion drawn from your last point should be upping everyone lecturers wages. Not slashing some peoples.
    Universities will get this money from where?

    Slashing investment or cutting student services and facilities?

    (Original post by lucabrasi98)
    The amount we spend on military or anything nuclear related makes me facepalm.
    It's been a long time since I looked at financials statements of any university, but I cannot acclaim to ever having see a university spend money on their own nuclear weapons programme.

    This is a strike of private sector employees against their private sector (non-government-underwritten) pension fund, which their private sector employers decided to cut.

    If the university system wants to start being a public sector service, then they need to start offering value for money for the taxpayer, which includes paying lecturers of economics more than lecturers of history by cutting the latter's wages closer to the market rate.

    As much as the NHS was founded on the principles of equality for all, specialist consultants are not paid the same for their different specialisations because there is a different market rate for all of them, with compensation anywhere around 50k for pediatrists to 150k for orthopaedics.

    They do the same reputable job of caring for patients, and both probably have research in their field that is well-received among peers.

    Can't have your cake and eat it.

    Value for money in the public sector or autonomy in your equality whims in the private sector.
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    (Original post by lucabrasi98)
    snip
    (Original post by LostAccount)
    snip
    This thread is veering off-topic. :nope: I think you should take this particular discussion into another thread. :yep:
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    This thread is veering off-topic. :nope: I think you should take this particular discussion into another thread. :yep:
    How can a series of posts about the causes of and solutions to the university strikes be off-topic to a thread about university strikes??
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    (Original post by LostAccount)
    The solution isn't to prop up the pension benefits of people who are earning well above their field, then.

    Most universities operate on a so-called "equal pay for equal work" principle in that they give the lecturers the same wages irrespective of their field, unless they are a guest lecturer or a 'star' who the university wants to grab for the reputation.

    STEM lecturers wouldn't be leaving if they wouldn't have to make such a huge salary sacrifice in order to work at at a university instead of the public sector.

    Yes, engineering, medicinal and economics lecturers will be taking a massive pay cut in order to work at a university. They have a clear incentive to leave if their pensions are cut, because that's the only retention factor.

    Some courses such as law, marketing etc. are paid fairly equal to the market rate.

    Other courses such as arts, psychology and languages are paid multiples above the private sector. Gaining employment at a university is creme de la creme because you won't find a higher paid job elsewhere.

    In other words, lecturers from courses in higher market demand are subsidising the lecturers with lower market demand.

    A very quick job search on jobs.ac.uk reveals that King's College London is looking for the following job titles:
    "Lecturer in Economics" (£33,518 starter)
    "Lecturer in African Literature" (£33,518 starter)
    "Lecturer in Medieval Literature" (£33,518 starter)

    Please tell me with a straight face that these two courses are legitimately of the same societal or economic value, or generate the same revenue in tuition fees for the university.

    Lecturers in STEM should be angry that the university is overpaying non-STEM lecturers and underpaying them, instead of being angry at the universities for having to cut spending in order to finance burgeoning pension benefits.

    A pension scheme for person A teaching Economics who had 300 students will be paid the same both pre and post retirement as a person B teaching African Literature who had 20 students. This is inefficient.




    They need to take that up with the auditors of the pension scheme then, not the scheme operators.

    That was the professional judgement of the auditors who thoroughly investigated the scheme top to bottom, after the actuaries opined that this was indeed the deficit.

    I doubt UCU has more clout and knowledge than actuaries who plan pension schemes 5 days a week, or auditors who are held to high ethical standards to form an accurate opinion.

    Seems more like an emotional argument.



    King's College London Vice Chancellor salary: £350 000
    King's College London staff numbers (FTE): 6 590
    Bonus to all members of staff upon sacking the Vice Chancellor (Salary/Staff): £53.

    Okay, I hope they enjoy their Christmas jeans present then.

    I mean, you can sack the entire senior management and executive board in all universities in the USS scheme and you'd still need major cuts because the sackings and subsequent redirection of all funds fully and only back to the pension scheme would not really make a dent in the pension deficit.
    You're missing the point that I was explaining why a student might be sympathetic with striking lecturers, rather than stating my own point of view.
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    Education was meant to have a "study group" instead of the lecture. Nobody turned up.:rofl:
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    They don't affect me at all because I can't be arsed getting out my bed even when they are on.
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    Don't completely agree with how these strikes are being done or motives, but they're ok with me!
    Missing 3/4 modules so more sleep for me and been told will be getting 80% in presentations automatically. Although the topics missed have already been written in exam so gotta do reading
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    (Original post by Chrissy.98)
    Don't completely agree with how these strikes are being done or motives, but they're ok with me!
    Missing 3/4 modules so more sleep for me and been told will be getting 80% in presentations automatically. Although the topics missed have already been written in exam so gotta do reading
    80% !!!:eek: Jammy bugger...:grumble:

    But I suppose the exams balances out with that. Karma.:cool:
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    For Sheffield University I know it's mainly affecting the humanities department areas, I'm currently studying Japanese and missing half my lectures a week currently because of it. Luckily the main ones are still going ahead.
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    some woman was trying to get me to sign her petition but I wanted food so I walked away
    #denied

    Literally nothing has been cancelled or affected for me
    just increase in conversations about it
    people in the way of all the crossings with their banners
    and everyone bragging about having no history or spanish lectures and I literally know 1 chemist who had a tutorial cancelled :indiff:
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    (Original post by CheeseIsVeg)
    some woman was trying to get me to sign her petition but I wanted food so I walked away
    #denied

    Literally nothing has been cancelled or affected for me
    just increase in conversations about it
    people in the way of all the crossings with their banners
    and everyone bragging about having no history or spanish lectures and I literally know 1 chemist who had a tutorial cancelled :indiff:
    My timetable is now 1 hour a week.:smug:
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    (Original post by 04MR17)
    My timetable is now 1 hour a week.:smug:
    would u like to survive
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    I really hope that this strike isn't actioned. I pay 9k a year to be at university of Southampton and will be damned if I miss out on lectures, due to something that is out of my control. Sort it out powers that be.
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    The majority of my lectures and seminars have been cancelled for the past few weeks and this coming week. It is concerning me a lot since I have found during the past couple of years that I generally learn best through contact time rather than reading, and lectures help me to absorb the information far easier. Being in my final year of my degree too makes it all the more worrying. I'm actually getting quite anxious about it all now as I feel extremely behind, my system of learning has been disrupted and I feel it will definitely impact upon my final grades.
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    (Original post by Martini6)
    The majority of my lectures and seminars have been cancelled for the past few weeks and this coming week. It is concerning me a lot since I have found during the past couple of years that I generally learn best through contact time rather than reading, and lectures help me to absorb the information far easier. Being in my final year of my degree too makes it all the more worrying. I'm actually getting quite anxious about it all now as I feel extremely behind, my system of learning has been disrupted and I feel it will definitely impact upon my final grades.
    :console: Make sure you talk to your university's support service about how you're feeling.:sadnod: Don't bottle it up inside.:nah:
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    I've been told strike could be off on Wednesday.
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    (Original post by 04MR17)
    I've been told strike could be off on Wednesday.
    Current UCU position is that it is on, but it ultimately depends on how these (crappy, but - we think - intermediate) proposals are voted.
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    (Original post by gjd800)
    Current UCU position is that it is on, but it ultimately depends on how these (crappy, but - we think - intermediate) proposals are voted.
    Thank you. This is forcing me to pay more attention to my uni emails.
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    Another monday goes by and another 2 hours worth of lectures gets cancelled

    Now that i think bout it, i havent had lectures for this module for 4 weeks (including reading week). I dont think i stepped into university for about 4 weeks too

    Nice end to university life eh
 
 
 
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