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Chemistry Research, Durham University
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St Andrews or Durham?

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"And I'll pose the question which has been asked, since this thread is about two specific non-London universities, what the heck do your opinions have to do with this thread?"

Did wonder this too as the whole question was they were torn between two unis neither of which were in London so the restof the comments all seem rather irrelevant tbh.
Original post by StarLinyx
You need to learn some manners. Respect.
Chemistry Research, Durham University
Durham University
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I paid the correct tribute to both universities - they are among the top 11-15 universities in the UK.
Original post by Anonymous
If only you could comprehend it, 'absolute twaddle' was polite and respectful considering some of stuff you've been posting on a thread concerning Durham and St Andrews.

Please consider that for some students, their absolute dream university is be Durham or St Andrews. They want to go their and feel proud that they have achieved something very few people achieve.

Do you really want to worry such students about their future by posting stuff about an academic consensus that does not exist, for universities that are not part of the equation?

So, with respect, you should be respectful of their feeling.
All universities and views on them must be respected, not just your own.
Original post by Muser99
"And I'll pose the question which has been asked, since this thread is about two specific non-London universities, what the heck do your opinions have to do with this thread?"

Did wonder this too as the whole question was they were torn between two unis neither of which were in London so the restof the comments all seem rather irrelevant tbh.
Original post by StarLinyx
I paid the correct tribute to both universities - they are among the top 11-15 universities in the UK.


St Andrews and Durham are in the top 7 unis in the UK.

St Andrews is #1 for Student Satisfaction this year, LSE is at the very bottom. i mean the very worst uni in the whole of the UK for student satisfaction. A breakdown of last year's results showed LSE was also the bottom last year for feedback on work, second worst for satisfaction with teaching and third worst for satisfaction with the course.

whilst these results are subjective, they are legitimised by their consistency from year to year. LSE is a joke
Sorry, I don't respect views are highly misleading and completely out of context with the conversation.
Original post by StarLinyx
All universities and views on them must be respected, not just your own.
Original post by StarLinyx
I paid the correct tribute to both universities - they are among the top 11-15 universities in the UK.


I’m intrigued as to who’s in your bizarre top 10 if Durham and St Andrews are excluded?

We know it’s Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL, KCL (lol), and LSE. Who are the other 4 unis that students should accept offers from before Durham or St Andrews (even though they statistically don’t)?
And by your logic, newspaper journalists set the standards for universities, in which case Lancaster and Loughborough are solid top 10 universities, way ahead of Bristol and Edinburgh.
Original post by Anonymous
I’m intrigued as to who’s in your bizarre top 10 if Durham and St Andrews are excluded?

We know it’s Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL, KCL (lol), and LSE. Who are the other 4 unis that students should accept offers from before Durham or St Andrews (even though they statistically don’t)?
Do you remember what happened to the arrogant Apollo Creed in Rocky IV? There is no place for arrogance.
Original post by Anonymous
Sorry, I don't respect views are highly misleading and completely out of context with the conversation.
Don't you cite The Times rankings? Can you answer the question above, which universities would put in the top 10 for undergraduates?
Original post by StarLinyx
And by your logic, newspaper journalists set the standards for universities, in which case Lancaster and Loughborough are solid top 10 universities, way ahead of Bristol and Edinburgh.
THE, QS, and ARWU are the main ones, and have been quoted in the House of Lords and by the Russell Group on multiple occasions as a yardstick towards the quality of UK universities.

Cambridge
Oxford
LSE
Imperial
UCL
KCL
Edinburgh
Bristol
Warwick
Manchester

Then come the likes of Durham, St Andrews, Nottingham, Exeter, York etc.

And just for the record, for what it is worth, I regard Trinity College Dublin as more superficially prestigious than either Durham or St Andrews.
Original post by Anonymous
Don't you cite The Times rankings? Can you answer the question above, which universities would put in the top 10 for undergraduates?
look. i dont know which of those unis you went to, but Durham and St Andrews are more selective than all but the top 4

Original post by StarLinyx
THE, QS, and ARWU are the main ones, and have been quoted in the House of Lords and by the Russell Group on multiple occasions as a yardstick towards the quality of UK universities.

Cambridge
Oxford
LSE
Imperial
UCL
KCL
Edinburgh
Bristol
Warwick
Manchester

Then come the likes of Durham, St Andrews, Nottingham, Exeter, York etc.

And just for the record, for what it is worth, I regard Trinity College Dublin as more superficially prestigious than either Durham or St Andrews.
Original post by StarLinyx
THE, QS, and ARWU are the main ones, and have been quoted in the House of Lords and by the Russell Group on multiple occasions as a yardstick towards the quality of UK universities.

Cambridge
Oxford
LSE
Imperial
UCL
KCL
Edinburgh
Bristol
Warwick
Manchester

Then come the likes of Durham, St Andrews, Nottingham, Exeter, York etc.

And just for the record, for what it is worth, I regard Trinity College Dublin as more superficially prestigious than either Durham or St Andrews.


TBF I was scared your top 10 was going to be more delusional; Warwick, Bristol, and Edinburgh are not outrageous inclusions.

The fact is, very high caliber students choose to go to Durham and St Andrews every year, this is demonstrated by their high average entry standards.

They leave smarter too. If we look at the percentage of students who received Firsts or 2:1s, the order goes: 1. Oxford (94.0%); 2. Cambridge (93.4%); 3. Durham (92.1%); 4. LSE (90.5%); 5. St Andrews (89.8%). These are figures, not opinion, and not made up by journalists!

If an undergraduate student picked Manchester over Durham, they are, quite frankly, broken.
Reply 52
Avatar for Cvh691p
Cvh691p
1
😂😂😂😂 I assume you’re joking...
Original post by StarLinyx
THE, QS, and ARWU are the main ones, and have been quoted in the House of Lords and by the Russell Group on multiple occasions as a yardstick towards the quality of UK universities.

Cambridge
Oxford
LSE
Imperial
UCL
KCL
Edinburgh
Bristol
Warwick
Manchester

Then come the likes of Durham, St Andrews, Nottingham, Exeter, York etc.

And just for the record, for what it is worth, I regard Trinity College Dublin as more superficially prestigious than either Durham or St Andrews.
Original post by Anonymous
TBF I was scared your top 10 was going to be more delusional; Warwick, Bristol, and Edinburgh are not outrageous inclusions.

The fact is, very high caliber students choose to go to Durham and St Andrews every year, this is demonstrated by their high average entry standards.

They leave smarter too. If we look at the percentage of students who received Firsts or 2:1s, the order goes: 1. Oxford (94.0%); 2. Cambridge (93.4%); 3. Durham (92.1%); 4. LSE (90.5%); 5. St Andrews (89.8%). These are figures, not opinion, and not made up by journalists!

If an undergraduate student picked Manchester over Durham, they are, quite frankly, broken.


Are there any professors on TSR who would like to take a view on this opinion?
On what authority?
Original post by Cvh691p
😂😂😂😂 I assume you’re joking...
Yet again, completely failing to understand the difference between different institutions. Yes these universities are good and respected. The QS, however, specifically states in its methodology that it bases it's rankings on research.

Research is not a priority for undergraduates. Not all universities devote massive resources to to it, or are too small to complete on an equal footing with the very big research institutions.

The QS assumes that because universities teach and do research, they should be ranked equally. But this is false, it's like comparing a Primary School with a Secondary School, the RAF with the Royal Navy or even Rugby League with Rugby Union. They all do things that a non-expert would regard as similar, but someone with real knowledge understands that they all have responsibilities that may overlap, but are very different. Any expert would laugh if someone claimed the RAF was better than the Royal Navy because the RAF have more planes - of course they do, but that's not the point.

To say that a good research university is better than a good teaching university completely fails to grasp the point. Of course Oxbridge successfully does high quality teaching and research and is rightly recognised for it in all the rankings. But Imperial, UCL and certainly KCL are not as good as teaching undergraduates as St Andrews or Durham.

I know that going back to the 60s and 70s St Andrews made a conscious decision to keep student numbers low and teaching quality high. They are to be commended for not going the money grabbing route.

And for information, the CUG rankings are put together by stats experts currently employed in UK universities. QS is a company, with close links to universities around the world - so the CUG may, or may not, try to attract clicks on its website, but what is the QS motivation for its rankings?
Original post by StarLinyx
THE, QS, and ARWU are the main ones, and have been quoted in the House of Lords and by the Russell Group on multiple occasions as a yardstick towards the quality of UK universities.

Cambridge
Oxford
LSE
Imperial
UCL
KCL
Edinburgh
Bristol
Warwick
Manchester

Then come the likes of Durham, St Andrews, Nottingham, Exeter, York etc.

And just for the record, for what it is worth, I regard Trinity College Dublin as more superficially prestigious than either Durham or St Andrews.
Original post by StarLinyx
Are there any professors on TSR who would like to take a view on this opinion?

Im not a professor, but i'm about to start a PhD and feel i've been in academic & industry cicles long enough to have a good feel for where Unis rank (just had a quick scan of this thread, not read it in detail).
The reality is it varies to what your looking at: teaching quality, research, Career prospects, research expertise (and everyones got their own personal view, normally with a huge bias)

I personally rank Unis prestige based on how employers & researchers view Unis (these are what will open doors after your degree), but also considered lifestyle and other factors when selecting my Unis to attend.
I think if you look at the Universities listed in the highfliers grad market guide, and Unis ranked in the latest REF report this gives you an idea of the 'best' institutions.
A general summation of the 'top' Unis are the original 13 Sutton trust Unis, Obviously OxBridgeImp are in a different level opportunity wise to other the others on the list...

Original ST13 Unis: Bristol, Cambridge, Oxford, Durham, Edinburgh, Imperial, UCL, LSE, Nottingham, St Andrews, Warwick, York and Birmingham - - (notable Unis not on the list but i consider on a similar standard: Manchester, Leeds...)

Unis in highfliers guide: Manchester, Bristol, Birmingham, Warwick, University College London, Cambridge, Nottingham, Durham, Leeds and Oxford.

REF latest 'power' rankings: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/ng-interactive/2014/dec/18/university-research-excellence-framework-2014-full-rankings
Top 10: Oxford, ucl, cambridge, edinborough, manchester, imperial, kcl, nottingham, bristol leeds
(edited 4 years ago)
Apart from verified accounts posting Q&A's for admissions, I would be very sceptical of anyone claiming to be a professor writing anything on TSR.

Pretty sure most real professors have better things to do than spend their time looking at some of the foolish things posted on here.
Original post by Anonymous
Apart from verified accounts posting Q&A's for admissions, I would be very sceptical of anyone claiming to be a professor writing anything on TSR.

Pretty sure most real professors have better things to do than spend their time looking at some of the foolish things posted on here.

there are no professors on here, Profs get their position normally for the output and prestige of their research, they have extremely busy calendars and don't have time to be on TSR, when they do finish work pretty sure they'd rather be with their families then sitting on online chat rooms.

Also i doubt any would weigh in on a thread like this as they dont want the comments being associated to them, when they have to work with colleagues from Unis all around the Uk/world
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 59
Avatar for Bajdbdjd
Bajdbdjd
*third oldest in England (St. Andrews is older).

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