Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Rule Britannia! Royal Navy carrier sails into Gibraltar watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    The HMS Queen Elizabeth, our newest aircraft carrier, has arrived in Gibraltar in advance of rotary (helicopter) air trials to commence off the coast of Spain. Fixed-wing air trials (involving the F-35) will commence this September.

    What a magnificent set of pictures, and pregnant with symbolism. A British capital ship, a modern battleship of sorts, sails into one of our imperial possessions. Rah rah, Britons never never shall be slaves, etc etc. (further commentary below picture; scroll down)



    Full pictures available here: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/phot...ive-gibraltar/

    Despite the utter contempt for Britain that we observe dripping from every sarcastic, derisive comment emanating from Brussels and from some (but not all) Remainers, about us being a backwater, a joke, an irrelevance, because we had the temerity to choose to leave the European Union, it's worthwhile reminding ourselves how the UK, within Europe, is a uniquely global player.

    We are one of only five permanent members of the UN Security Council, with veto powers over UNSC resolutions. We still have a global mini-empire, with possessions in the Caribbean (Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands), Gibraltar, the sovereign bases in Cyprus, Diego Garcia in the Pacific Ocean and the British Antarctic Territory which is 1.7 million square kilometers. We are one of only four powers that possess a 'Continuous At-Sea Deterrence' capability, with a RN nuclear submarine permanently on station, creeping silently in the deep awaiting orders to rain down dozens of nuclear warheads on any specified target set.

    We are part of the global intelligence alliance between the Anglosphere democracies (United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) that puts GCHQ at the very top table of intelligence capability. We also possess, in the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), possibly the world's most professional collector of HUMINT (human intelligence).

    We have the City of London, which is the world's leading centre of finance and also for numerous industries like advertising, insurance and legal services (one of only two 'Alpha ++' global cities, alongside New York).

    We have immense cultural soft power, not only because of English's ubiquity as the world language of business and science, but because of trusted institutions like the BBC World Service and the BBC, our music industry, television exports and musical theatre in the West End. Of the top 20 universities in the world, 17 are in the United States, 2 are in the UK and 1 in Switzerland (all outside the EU, I would note).

    The UK leaving the EU is an immense step down for the EU in terms of global power, prestige and influence. I think it's vital that we maintain good relations with the EU and its member states, and it is in our interests that the remaining 27 states remain a strong and united bloc. But that doesn't mean I feel the need to denigrate the UK, or underestimate how much it will diminish the EU by us leaving.

    The Britons are a fierce, proud race (I don't use that in an ethnic sense... I include in that everyone who is a UK citizen and committed to it), we should have confidence in ourselves and in our future, even if the next few years might be tough. And this isn't a right-wing or left-wing thing. I'm a socialist who can't stand UKIP, Trump and the alt-right. This is about having a sense of pride in, and commitment to, this great country.
    Offline

    15
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Rah rah! We are part of the global intelligence alliance between the Anglosphere democracies (United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) that puts GCHQ at the very top table of intelligence capability. We also possess, in the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), possibly the world's most professional collector of HUMINT (human intelligence).
    Rah rah! We have the City of London, which is the world's leading centre of finance and also for numerous industries like advertising, insurance and legal services (one of only two 'Alpha ++' global cities, alongside New York).
    Rah rah! The Britons are a fierce, proud race
    I'm a socialist
    You keep on calling yourself that, yet you obsessively take every opportunity to attack Corbyn for being too left-wing and too anti-apartheid, and you salivate over our bankers and spies, all the while bleating on about how much better Britain is than everyone else.

    Are you an American?* I know over there that the idea of paying taxes for healthcare is deemed as a subversively communist ideal, but here in Europe it has been the norm largely since Napoleon (roughly the time of the US Civil War), and from what I've seen of your views, you would be rather deep into the right-wing portion of the political spectrum.



    *Which would then explain your overcompensating for not being British. In which case, a hint: We don't actually say "rah rah" and that kind of thing, and there is no need to buy a tweed jacket and a pipe before you visit us. Also don't try to speak to people in London like that, you'd be better off speaking Roadman.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    The HMS Queen Elizabeth, our newest aircraft carrier, has arrived in Gibraltar in advance of rotary (helicopter) air trials to commence off the coast of Spain. Fixed-wing air trials (involving the F-35) will commence this September.

    What a magnificent set of pictures, and pregnant with symbolism. A British capital ship, a modern battleship of sorts, sails into one of our imperial possessions. Rah rah, Britons never never shall be slaves, etc etc. (further commentary below picture; scroll down)



    Full pictures available here: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/phot...ive-gibraltar/

    Despite the utter contempt for Britain that we observe dripping from every sarcastic, derisive comment emanating from Brussels and from some (but not all) Remainers, about us being a backwater, a joke, an irrelevance, because we had the temerity to choose to leave the European Union, it's worthwhile reminding ourselves how the UK, within Europe, is a uniquely global player.

    We are one of only five permanent members of the UN Security Council, with veto powers over UNSC resolutions. We still have a global mini-empire, with possessions in the Caribbean (Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands), Gibraltar, the sovereign bases in Cyprus, Diego Garcia in the Pacific Ocean and the British Antarctic Territory which is 1.7 million square kilometers. We are one of only four powers that possess a 'Continuous At-Sea Deterrence' capability, with a RN nuclear submarine permanently on station, creeping silently in the deep awaiting orders to rain down dozens of nuclear warheads on any specified target set.

    We are part of the global intelligence alliance between the Anglosphere democracies (United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) that puts GCHQ at the very top table of intelligence capability. We also possess, in the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), possibly the world's most professional collector of HUMINT (human intelligence).

    We have the City of London, which is the world's leading centre of finance and also for numerous industries like advertising, insurance and legal services (one of only two 'Alpha ++' global cities, alongside New York).

    We have immense cultural soft power, not only because of English's ubiquity as the world language of business and science, but because of trusted institutions like the BBC World Service and the BBC, our music industry, television exports and musical theatre in the West End. Of the top 20 universities in the world, 17 are in the United States, 2 are in the UK and 1 in Switzerland (all outside the EU, I would note).

    The UK leaving the EU is an immense step down for the EU in terms of global power, prestige and influence. I think it's vital that we maintain good relations with the EU and its member states, and it is in our interests that the remaining 27 states remain a strong and united bloc. But that doesn't mean I feel the need to denigrate the UK, or underestimate how much it will diminish the EU by us leaving.

    The Britons are a fierce, proud race (I don't use that in an ethnic sense... I include in that everyone who is a UK citizen and committed to it), we should have confidence in ourselves and in our future, even if the next few years might be tough. And this isn't a right-wing or left-wing thing. I'm a socialist who can't stand UKIP, Trump and the alt-right. This is about having a sense of pride in, and commitment to, this great country.
    Wonderful stuff, however, you forgot to mention the Royal Navy's - and indeed the British government's - actual role in global affairs: that of a desperate tag along pretending that it remains relevant.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...to-join-675658
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    The HMS Queen Elizabeth, our newest aircraft carrier, has arrived in Gibraltar in advance of rotary (helicopter) air trials to commence off the coast of Spain. Fixed-wing air trials (involving the F-35) will commence this September.

    What a magnificent set of pictures, and pregnant with symbolism. A British capital ship, a modern battleship of sorts, sails into one of our imperial possessions. Rah rah, Britons never never shall be slaves, etc etc. (further commentary below picture; scroll down)
    50 frigates would have been more use particularly when Guinea-Bissau eventually gets its own aircraft carrier (formerly known as a leaky coaster with a wooden upper deck and some French drones).

    HMS Vanguard comes to mind.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_(23)
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    You keep on calling yourself that, yet you obsessively take every opportunity to attack Corbyn for being too left-wing and too anti-apartheid, and you salivate over our bankers and spies, all the while bleating on about how much better Britain is than everyone else.
    It is possible to be left wing and at the same time dislike Corbyn for his views on military and foreign policy for example. Corbyn does not have a monopoly on left wing politics.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Oh look. They found some helicopters to put on it!
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    it is worth mentioning that 96% of Gibraltarians voted

    Spoiler:
    Show
    remain
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    What an absolute waste of money!

    That same money used to build that ship and the royal marines could have been used to build new hospitals and funding the NHS. Why do we need to expand our army and expand our nuclear arsenal at the same time we don't need a detternet when we have NATO.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The PoliticalGuy)
    What an absolute waste of money!

    That same money used to build that ship and the royal marines could have been used to build new hospitals and funding the NHS. Why do we need to expand our army and expand our nuclear arsenal at the same time we don't need a detternet when we have NATO.
    Because the NHS hadn't seen many funding cuts in 2008.. When the ship was ordered under the Labour government.. What were we supposed to do cancel a half built ship? Now thats a waste of money.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by jdddd)
    Because the NHS hadn't seen many funding cuts in 2008.. When the ship was ordered under the Labour government.. What were we supposed to do cancel a half built ship? Now thats a waste of money.
    Why are you talking about 2008. I hadn't mentioned the Conservative party being at fault I said that this ship was an absolute waste of money.

    Stop assuming!
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The PoliticalGuy)
    Why are you talking about 2008. I hadn't mentioned the Conservative party being at fault I said that this ship was an absolute waste of money.

    Stop assuming!
    Because the Ship was ordered in 2008 under the Labour government.. the NHS didn't need as much funding. Under the Conservative government it has under gone cuts to reduce the deficit made by the Labour government.. So at the time of order the NHS didn't need the money as much as it does now..If there was a decision now to order these two Aircraft carriers or put the money in the NHS, I think it would go to the NHS. IM not assuming? Times change.
    • Study Helper
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Study Helper
    (Original post by The PoliticalGuy)
    What an absolute waste of money!

    That same money used to build that ship and the royal marines could have been used to build new hospitals and funding the NHS. Why do we need to expand our army and expand our nuclear arsenal at the same time we don't need a detternet when we have NATO.
    Put it this way, can you predict what the future will be like 40 years from now?

    People who can predict their home will be struck by lightning on 12th August 2038, obviously do not need to bother with buildings, contents or life insurance until the day before the event.
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Most remainers aren't saying that the UK is not powerful without the EU. What most remainers do believe is that, while Britain is a great, influential country, we are great partly because we are in the unique position of being a leading force in the Anglosphere and the Commonwealth but also in Europe. Companies invest in the UK not just because of our fantastic business environment and economies of scale, but also because we have strong links with Europe, such as tariff-free trade to a market of 500 million people, which buys almost half of our exports. You mention how the City of London is the world's leading financial centre, but this is partly because we have access to the single market (as well as EU 'passporting' rights) and because we are seen by the large banks and other financial services firms as a base for their European business (it's not a coincidence that almost all the CEOs of the major investment banks supported remain). You mention how we have global influence but this is also partly because we are a major player in the EU, with 73 MEPs, enabling us to have considerable influence on the future of Europe. We act as a bridge between the US and mainland Europe, and our unique links with both is what gives us so much influence in global affairs.

    It is easy to come up with reasons why Britain is great and say 'see, we're already great without the EU' but being a member of the EU gives us tremendous economic benefits as well as giving us influence abroad. In the future, we are no longer going to have that special relationship with countries like France and Germany (at least not to the extent that we have now). We're not going to be part of trade deals the EU has struck with countries across the world. We're no longer going to have the power to travel to 27 countries at our will without visas and without hassle at the border. Thousands of jobs are at risk of being moved to Europe. At a time when the world is being more integrated, more global- we have decided to weaken our relationship with our most important trading partner and weaken our influence on our great continent. Brexit won't make the UK an irrelevant island but it will damage both us and the EU significantly in terms of wealth, prestige and influence.

    Brits are a fierce, patriotic people as you say, but many of us are also proud of our shared values as Europeans and believe what's best for the UK is to have a great relationship with Europe. I'm tired of this lie that we are somehow less patriotic than the Brexiteers- just because we also love Europe doesn't mean that we love the UK less.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    We have the City of London, which is the world's leading centre of finance and also for numerous industries like advertising, insurance and legal services (one of only two 'Alpha ++' global cities, alongside New York).
    Ironic that you're a socialist and also praising the City of London, the embodiment of free market capitalism. Also worth noting that London isn't a global city just because Britain is such a great rich influential country. One reason why it's so influencial is because it attracts talent and investment from across the world. London is open, outward-looking and accepting, and that's why it attracts people from across the world, making us a cultural melting pot like no other. Most Londoners heavily dislike Brexit and are proud Europeans as well as Britons and Londoners. This is not just a British city, it's a global city and Britain's strong links to the EU and its markets play a large part in making London the centre of finance, commerce, education and culture that it is. London is the antithesis of everything that Brexit stands for.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Another one of those threads by Brexiteers implying that remainers are just unpatriotic scum who hate their country and don't have faith in it. At the end of the day, while you might love Britain because of our capacity to fire big rockets at other countries and how nice our army's guns look, others might love British because we are open, global and tolerant. Others might love Britain because we are part of a great European Union of other free democratic, progressive countries (apart from the Eastern Europeans but they're not as influential). Others might love Britain because of our wonderful NHS, which depends heavily on foreign workers often from the EU, or because of our world class universities, many of whom her large numbers of European professors and staff. Britain is great because we are great on our own but because we are great together with our partners in Europe and abroad.
    Offline

    15
    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    It is possible to be left wing and at the same time dislike Corbyn for his views on military and foreign policy for example. Corbyn does not have a monopoly on left wing politics.
    Of course not, but specifically attacking Corbyn for being too left-wing ("too divisive" ) is a little odd for a self-proclaimed socialist.

    Even more odd, as I said, is salivating over bankers (one of the worst subsets of the bourgeoisie), and engaging in this cringey Imperialist jingoism.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Of course not, but specifically attacking Corbyn for being too left-wing ("too divisive" ) is a little odd for a self-proclaimed socialist.
    When did I attack Corbyn for being too left-wing? On economic policy I'm to the left of Corbyn

    I did attack him for praising Hezbollah and Hamas as being "dedicated to peace and social justice". Are you now thrown out of the left-wing if you object to praising far-right fascist religious militias?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    It is possible to be left wing and at the same time dislike Corbyn for his views on military and foreign policy for example. Corbyn does not have a monopoly on left wing politics.
    Well said.

    Corbyn is very supportive of far right, religious regimes like Iran, and fascist religious militias like Hamas and Hezbollah. That should be completely anathema to every thinking progressive.

    It's worth noting that the other day Syrian regime forces attacked our socialist comrades in the Kurdish YPG. Personally my solidarity is with my socialist brothers and sisters, not with a ethno-fascist cult of personality that is the Assad regime, or indeed the homophobic kleptocracy of Russia
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Trapz99)
    Most remainers aren't saying that the UK is not powerful without the EU. What most remainers do believe is that, while Britain is a great, influential country, we are great partly because we are in the unique position of being a leading force in the Anglosphere and the Commonwealth
    A Remainer breathing the word Anglosphere? Shocking

    Ironic that you're a socialist and also praising the City of London
    I didn't praise the City, I pointed out facts. Do you deny them?

    Also, my socialism doesn't interfere with my clear-eyed understanding that hosting the world's premier centre of finance is very much in our national interest.

    Brits are a fierce, patriotic people as you say, but many of us are also proud of our shared values as Europeans
    Shared values like democracy and the rule of law, which do not require us to be members of the EU.

    and believe what's best for the UK is to have a great relationship with Europe.
    That's what most Brexiters, excepting a few nutcases like Jacob Rees-Mogg, want. It's Brussels that is throwing obstacles in front of agreeing a deep and special relationship that allows us to continue to trade, travel, study and live in one another's countries.

    just because we also love Europe doesn't mean that we love the UK less.
    When you say "love Europe", you mean "love the EU". The two are not synonymous. Otherwise you can say there are many Brexiters who love Europe as much, or more, than Remainers.

    I'd wager my experience travelling across Europe, my knowledge of its history and culture, would put most Remainers to shame. The difference is that my attachment to Europe is not mediated by a supranational political organisation.

    If the EU is the only avenue for your sentiment for Europe, that's a very sad state of affairs.
    Offline

    15
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    When did I attack Corbyn for being too left-wing? On economic policy I'm to the left of Corbyn

    I did attack him for praising Hezbollah and Hamas as being "dedicated to peace and social justice". Are you now thrown out of the left-wing if you object to praising far-right fascist religious militias?
    You've repeatedly criticised Corbyn for being too left-wing because you were concerned about Labour's appeal to the masses, e.g. 'if Corbyn is elected, Labour will fail".

    Which I can kind of understand, if you are still under the belief that it is better for the moderate centre-"left" to be in power than for the socialist left to merely be in opposition. I was more concerned with your love of capitalism and the bankers in The City.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: February 11, 2018
Poll
Are you going to a festival?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.