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Deloitte or KPMG (Birmingham)-need to decide in 1 week

farhaan1985

Hi Guys

I'm having a bit of a dilemma deciding which firm to choose (amongst KPMG & Deloitte). Both are highly reputed big-4 firms and I enjoyed the assessment day experience offered by both firms. So, I'm having confusion deciding whether to chose KPMG or Deloitte (both offers are for their Birmingham offices, Graduate intake for 2008 audit). Can someone advise me which one to choose based on the "overall experience", how varied the exposure is in terms of clients, which company has a better work environment, better people to work with and moreover which firm's name would look better on the CV once I qualify with the ACA. The starting salary being offered is almost similar, so cant differentiate on that. It would be really helpful if someone who's been working in one of these firms could reply.

Regards

Reply 1

davemarkey

2

Its your decision. Which firm felt 'right' to you? Where could you see yourself working?

Exposure to clients, training, pay etc. are not going to differ greatly, though isn't KPMG's training for the ICAS CA, whereas Deloitte is the ACA?

Are the roles exactly the same, or in different areas/industries?

Reply 2

Illusionary

19

davemarkey

Exposure to clients, training, pay etc. are not going to differ greatly, though isn't KPMG's training for the ICAS CA, whereas Deloitte is the ACA?

There's nothing wrong with studying the ICAS syllabus though - it's at least on par with the ICAEW :cool:

Reply 3

First in Flight

kpmg auditors do ACA or ACCA, it's just the tax people who do ICAS. I think it has something to do with getting extra exemptions for CTA.

Reply 4

mendelssohn

1

EY are the big4 that do ICAS for some reason. Not that it makes any difference.

Reply 5

sfboy

1

I'm curious, what's the pay like in Birmingham. I'm going for positions in Bham and London, but hear there is quite a difference in the bottom line. Anyone got figures to back this up?

Reply 6

mendelssohn

1

doesnt make a difference sfboy. The difference in pay is easily canceled out by higher living and accomodation costs in london. Make your decision based on what kind of clients you want. Usually bigger clients in london.

Reply 7

Wstroud

1

I'm curious, what's the pay like in Birmingham. I'm going for positions in Bham and London, but hear there is quite a difference in the bottom line. Anyone got figures to back this up?

Don't quote me on this as don't have the figures to hand, but I think its about 5-6k more in London.

Reply 8

v2006

Are the big 4 the most competitive firms to get into after the IB's?

Reply 9

mendelssohn

1

No. Consultancies are as competitive as banks. Big4 are not, all they want is a 2.1 and a pulse...

Reply 10

v2006

But don't the consultancies only recruit from Oxbridge?

Reply 11

mendelssohn

1

v2006

But don't the consultancies only recruit from Oxbridge?

where are you getting this from??

They do recruit heavily from oxbridge, but it is by no means exclusive. The top (MBBB) consultancies are extremely competitive and look for outstanding academics as well as interesting ECs. So if you are not from oxbridge, or Lse or the like, you will just have to work harder to prove yourself.

In short, the big4 really are not hugely competitive, due to the sheer amount of recruits they take in between them each year. Half a brain, an ability to read what they want from you in the competency interview and a 2.1 (from anywhere really) and you should have a job in hand.

Reply 12

Barny

17

They're pretty much identical in every way. Pick the one which you think will offer greater opportunities for movement as you progress(ie. which firm will grow more in the next 5 or so years).

Reply 13

john williams

15

Barny

They're pretty much identical in every way. Pick the one which you think will offer greater opportunities for movement as you progress(ie. which firm will grow more in the next 5 or so years).

hey you seem to post quite a few good replies so coudl i ask u a quick q? with regards to first round interview, if you asked where you think the company will be/what challeneges will be in 5yrs time, what kind of things are they looking for, is it a case of just saying for deloitte for example challenges in changing laws/regulations and maybe continuing offer a high quality so it remains the "big4" and maybe mention sarbanes oxley somehow lol?

Reply 14

Barny

17

To be honest, I haven't really thought about the question that much to come up with some really good replies.

Think along the lines of: changes in the regulations - accountancy firms effectively feed off regulation. That's what gives them business - increase in regulation will mean increases in fees, decreases in regulation will usually mean the opposite.

Oligopolies - at the moment the big 4 are so far ahead in turnover/size and quality/breadth of service that no other firm is deemed capable of auditing a FTSE100 company - the government may well interact in order to stop this, think forcing the big 4 to sell off their audit arms/make their audit business seperate to the other parts of the business etc.

The only other thing I can think of is the inherent nature of what auditing is. You effectively assume responsibility for the legitimacy of a companies financial statements. If you make a mistake you can be sued, and nobody is perfect. The problem is made more difficult when somebody wants to hide something from you, and they can often be succesful. Investor make choices based on your audits, and if they lose money because you cock-up, they can sue you for their losses. This can cause big problems - Anderson were forced to close down because of enron, a PwC member firm in Japan recently had to close due to a blunder on the audit of a Japanese company etc.

I think some of the big 4 firms operate a policy where each firm is responsible for the other ie. if somebody in america makes a huge cock up that might also mean that the UK firm is closed down if they don't have the money to cover the damages and legal fees.

Reply 15

john williams

15

hey thanks for the reply its really helpful i guess you could also argue that as u say only big4 have the capabilities to audit, so regulation wouldnt be introduced if it was harmful to the economy as businesses wouldnt be audited, im about to do some more research and ask about so i will post any other ideas i have 2moro. thanks again

Reply 16

YouAreWhatYouEat

Well as said before it is up to as YOU will be working there

However i can inform you with information if you find it relevant, KPMG was named auditor of the year last year and showed the largest increase in revenue from the big 4 itself

i know there just facts etc but they can help paint a picture of what your future is going to be like, i mean doing an ACA or ACCA (which KPMG do offer) is going to take 3 years at least so take some and decide carefully

i personally find the atmosphere at KPMG to be >>>>>>>>

This is to the point where AUDIT IS ACTUALLY FUN lol!!! the people there really great and helpful (although this may be the case at Deloitte - i don't know?) and so working on projects just becomes a whole lot easier as your having fun etc

PS. another fact for your consideration lol, KPMG has the highest pass rate for ACA passes out of the big 4, so again considering your going to be taking it decide carefully (although i'm sure with hard work you will be capable of passing it as Deloitte also)

Reply 17

farhaan1985

OP

Thank you all for your replies :biggrin:

...

@akademic: yes i agree with u...i also felt that people working in KPMG somehow seemed more "satisfied" with their experience...i also got to know from people that amongst the big-4, KPMG wants to differentiate itself as the "best place to work for" and the one which takes care more of its employees and it showed in their recruitment efforts too...Moreover i've heard that kpmg has a more benevolent and lenient exam sacking policy compared to other firms...i dont know how far thats true but since u say that they have a higher passing rate, so it would be logical considering they dont need to use the "sack" that often...the baseline salaries r almost the same and the benefit package too dont have much to choose from...so i'm now leaning towards kpmg more, just becuase it seems to have the "right feel and fit"

@sfboy: the difference between london and bham salaries is roughly 5-6k across the big-4s but that's because everything in london is costly i.e accomodation and commuting etc...its practically the same...so if you want to experience the audits of more prestigious ftse-100 firms, then london is the place to be, but if you want a more mixed bag ie audit of some large, medium n small tier clients, then bham would be a good place to start out...hope that answers your question

is there anyone else whose got offer from deloitte or kpmg bham and would be joining from aug-sep 2008?

Reply 18

I am Legend

4

Hey there, yeh I've accepted the offer from Deloitte's Bham office this aug-sept 2008. I felt it was the best firm for me although it all depends on personal preference, only you can make the best decision for yourself really lol.

Reply 19

YouAreWhatYouEat

farhaan1985

Thank you all for your replies :biggrin:

...

@akademic: yes i agree with u...i also felt that people working in KPMG somehow seemed more "satisfied" with their experience...i also got to know from people that amongst the big-4, KPMG wants to differentiate itself as the "best place to work for" and the one which takes care more of its employees and it showed in their recruitment efforts too...Moreover i've heard that kpmg has a more benevolent and lenient exam sacking policy compared to other firms...i dont know how far thats true but since u say that they have a higher passing rate, so it would be logical considering they dont need to use the "sack" that often...the baseline salaries r almost the same and the benefit package too dont have much to choose from...so i'm now leaning towards kpmg more, just becuase it seems to have the "right feel and fit"

@sfboy: the difference between london and bham salaries is roughly 5-6k across the big-4s but that's because everything in london is costly i.e accomodation and commuting etc...its practically the same...so if you want to experience the audits of more prestigious ftse-100 firms, then london is the place to be, but if you want a more mixed bag ie audit of some large, medium n small tier clients, then bham would be a good place to start out...hope that answers your question

is there anyone else whose got offer from deloitte or kpmg bham and would be joining from aug-sep 2008?

i believe for first years the sacking policy is if you fail 2 exams with a 45% or lower mark - at least that is what i have heard through friends at the firm

tbh i see KPMG not only differentiating itself from the Big 4 as the best work place to work for, but also as a leader in the industry (more so in audit for example)

as far as perks are concerned, KPMG give you a lunch allowance, as well as pay for costs when working away from the office (as i would presume other firms would in the latter point)

also through there FLEXTRA system there are a TON of other benefits

good luck with your decision, and remember to drop back and tell us how it went lol :smile:

Deloitte or KPMG (Birmingham)-need to decide in 1 week

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