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The state wants good workers, not good thinkers. watch

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    Exams set by the state are designed to test your ability to process a large amount of relatively simple material, both verbal and numerical in nature, so that you will be in a fit state to serve corporations. Exams are no longer of a complicated, in-depth nature as they were fifty years ago.
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    we are their puppets :emo:
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    (Original post by jamstopper)
    Exams set by the state are designed to test your ability to process a large amount of relatively simple material, both verbal and numerical in nature, so that you will be in a fit state to serve corporations. Exams are no longer of a complicated, in-depth nature as they were fifty years ago.
    The difference is 50 years ago education was for the elite by the elite. Secondly, the 'corporations' would much rather have a better educated workforce - just look at any CBI statement on education.
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    (Original post by Sceptical_John)
    The difference is 50 years ago education was for the elite by the elite. Secondly, the 'corporations' would much rather have a better educated workforce - just look at any CBI statement on education.
    50 years ago you got a university grant that you could live on, and no fees.
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    (Original post by Sceptical_John)
    The difference is 50 years ago education was for the elite by the elite. Secondly, the 'corporations' would much rather have a better educated workforce - just look at any CBI statement on education.
    50 years ago a degree was essentially a guarantee of a job. Now that isn't the case. Getting a degree helps but it's not a guarantee because there aren't enough jobs to go around. So the ideal that we told children 30/40/50 years ago that if you work hard > go to uni > get a degree > success is now a myth and the children who don't believe that either rebel against the social order within the microcosm of education or they stress out because they feel as though as 15 year olds they're in competition with everyone else for a number of jobs significantly smaller than the amount of people who can fill them. An exam system of rote learning that we have now does not match the dynamic nature of the job market in the future, where a significant amount of occupations haven't even been created yet despite the idea that 10 year olds now are going to fill those jobs, and we're supposed to be preparing them for it.
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    (Original post by jamstopper)
    50 years ago you got a university grant that you could live on, and no fees.
    Yes if you want a system where only the elite go to best unis then you could have the no fees and grants (see how Scotland's poor folk end up doing shoddy degrees as colleges)

    (Original post by 04MR17)
    50 years ago a degree was essentially a guarantee of a job. Now that isn't the case. Getting a degree helps but it's not a guarantee because there aren't enough jobs to go around. So the ideal that we told children 30/40/50 years ago that if you work hard > go to uni > get a degree > success is now a myth and the children who don't believe that either rebel against the social order within the microcosm of education or they stress out because they feel as though as 15 year olds they're in competition with everyone else for a number of jobs significantly smaller than the amount of people who can fill them. An exam system of rote learning that we have now does not match the dynamic nature of the job market in the future, where a significant amount of occupations haven't even been created yet despite the idea that 10 year olds now are going to fill those jobs, and we're supposed to be preparing them for it.
    While I agree with you when you say 30 years ago uni was a guarantee of a good job and that is no longer the case it's not necessarily a bad thing. Much of this is down to growing global equality.

    As for jobs of the future, the thing is people were saying exactly the same tropes decades ago. I think everyone's seen the Ken Robinson ted talk and suddenly becomes an expert in education.

    Jobs in the future will require broadly the same knowledge and skills as people are learning now.

    Some info here:
    https://teachingbattleground.wordpre...ont-exist-yet/
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    (Original post by Sceptical_John)
    While I agree with you when you say 30 years ago uni was a guarantee of a good job and that is no longer the case it's not necessarily a bad thing. Much of this is down to growing global equality.

    As for jobs of the future, the thing is people were saying exactly the same tropes decades ago. I think everyone's seen the Ken Robinson ted talk and suddenly becomes an expert in education.

    Jobs in the future will require broadly the same knowledge and skills as people are learning now.

    Some info here:
    https://teachingbattleground.wordpre...ont-exist-yet/
    No it's because the pre-university education system is fundamentally designed to favour the pathway of becoming a university professor. We use the term "academic" to describe subjects which are more valued socially and those are also the subjects where you're more likely to go onto a degree in. If these are the children who are told they are capable of "graduate jobs" then what used to be a graduate job you now need a masters for, the jobs you used to need a masters for you now need a PhD. Intellectual inflation. Growing global equality will certainly have plenty to do with it. But I feel that it's not the main reason.


    People were saying "exactly the same tropes decades ago", and now we have modern computers, mobile smart phones and the internet, and technology industries producing them. There's plenty of jobs that weren't there before.

    In the 80s computer coding was something learned only at an advanced level, now it's in the GCSE.
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    (Original post by 04MR17)
    No it's because the pre-university education system is fundamentally designed to favour the pathway of becoming a university professor. We use the term "academic" to describe subjects which are more valued socially and those are also the subjects where you're more likely to go onto a degree in. If these are the children who are told they are capable of "graduate jobs" then what used to be a graduate job you now need a masters for, the jobs you used to need a masters for you now need a PhD. Intellectual inflation. Growing global equality will certainly have plenty to do with it. But I feel that it's not the main reason.


    People were saying "exactly the same tropes decades ago", and now we have modern computers, mobile smart phones and the internet, and technology industries producing them. There's plenty of jobs that weren't there before.

    In the 80s computer coding was something learned only at an advanced level, now it's in the GCSE.
    What makes someone good at designing mobile phones and coding? Much of it is down to maths and physics.

    Yes it's a good thing that coding is now in GCSE but I just dont see what you want to happen in schools. Even if there some magical jobs in the future that require fundamentally new knowledge how on earth do we predict this? Do we throw out Shakespeare, calculus, history of WW2? Replace it with snapchat, instagram and whatsapp just because some company 20 years down line needs people with some fantastic new skill. Feels very dystopian to me.

    We have spent 1000s of years as a civilization building a body of knowledge which has been deemed of value to pass on to the next generation. Throw all that away at your peril.
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    (Original post by jamstopper)
    Exams set by the state are designed to test your ability to process a large amount of relatively simple material, both verbal and numerical in nature, so that you will be in a fit state to serve corporations. Exams are no longer of a complicated, in-depth nature as they were fifty years ago.
    They want a workforce that's intelligent enough to carry out the work, though not intelligent enough to question it :borat:
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    (Original post by Sceptical_John)
    What makes someone good at designing mobile phones and coding? Much of it is down to maths and physics.

    Yes it's a good thing that coding is now in GCSE but I just dont see what you want to happen in schools. Even if there some magical jobs in the future that require fundamentally new knowledge how on earth do we predict this? Do we throw out Shakespeare, calculus, history of WW2? Replace it with snapchat, instagram and whatsapp just because some company 20 years down line needs people with some fantastic new skill. Feels very dystopian to me.

    We have spent 1000s of years as a civilization building a body of knowledge which has been deemed of value to pass on to the next generation. Throw all that away at your peril.
    I've not suggested anything of the sort. I'm neither qualified enough nor confident enough to re-design the education system. I just disagree with you about the main difference in Education between now and 50 years ago. You claim that education has lost it's elitism and that's the main factor behind the changing nature of exams (which is what this thread is about) and I claim that education's purpose being inherently connected to the workforce has led to a disconnected educations system as the workforce has changed while the education system fundamentally hasn't. The system lost it's elitism in 1944 which is over 70 years ago now.
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    (Original post by jamstopper)
    Exams set by the state are designed to test your ability to process a large amount of relatively simple material, both verbal and numerical in nature, so that you will be in a fit state to serve corporations. Exams are no longer of a complicated, in-depth nature as they were fifty years ago.
    Disagree. The new spec GCSEs are very much of the same mould of 50 years ago. And 50 years ago, only the top 20% who went to grammar schools were capable of taking them. And those people simply proved they were able to consume knowledge and regurgitate if for an exam. Same now really. The top 20% will do ok. The rest - well - they will cope, perhaps.

    But that said - corporations need thinkers more than any time in the past. Gone are the days when you hired coconuts to complete set tasks. Business is now about innovation and that only comes from thinking.
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    (Original post by 04MR17)
    In the 80s computer coding was something learned only at an advanced level, now it's in the GCSE.
    I did O-Level Computer Studies included coding using punchcards...

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    I did O-Level Computer Studies included coding using punchcards...

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    How common was O-level Computer Studies?:holmes:
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    (Original post by 04MR17)
    How common was O-level Computer Studies?:holmes:
    Not very

    I pretty much self taught it in L6.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    I did O-Level Computer Studies included coding using punchcards...

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    I didn't know you had an O level Doonesbury, you kept that secret mate.
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    Sounds Marxist to me
 
 
 
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