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British hero fighting for Kurds charged with terrorism watch

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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    PKK and ISIS are not morally equivalent, but the PKK long ago crossed the line of justifiable military actions and have resorted to terrorism, including multiple deliberate bomb and shooting attacks on purely civilian targets.
    I think we need to make something of a distinction here between the old PKK of the 20th century and the one that has been gradually evolving since Öcalan's imprisonment. The old PKK was ideologically a merger of Stalinism and (explicitly pro-independence) Kurdish nationalism, similar to anti-colonial movements round the world in the Cold War. And yes, they regularly carried out deliberate terrorist attacks on civilians.

    Over the past decade or so, the PKK has become more of a Bookchinite quasi-anarchist movement, less bothered about independence, and mostly attacking military and police targets. Though I do admit that even in this newer incarnation, they do stretch "military targets" quite a long way, and often take a very cavalier view to collateral civilian deaths.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    PKK and ISIS are not morally equivalent, but the PKK long ago crossed the line of justifiable military actions and have resorted to terrorism, including multiple deliberate bomb and shooting attacks on purely civilian targets.
    Doesnt that rather depend on what one considers 'justifiable'? After all the Turks policy is essentially a hybrid of terror and ethnic cleansing given their propensity to bulldoze villages. I for one would deem there acts, whilst less than stellar, little more than tit for tat.
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    We should congratulate thos willing to fight terrorism, not persecute them.


    They are worth a million keyboard warriors who claim Isis are bad but are too cowardly to do anything themselves.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    This is an outrage of the first order.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...g-against-isis

    It's also utterly illogical. How can a man who is fighting as part of Kurdish ground forces that are receiving air support of Royal Air Force jets, training from US special forces and weapons from Germany, be considered as a supporter of terrorism?

    Our Kurdish brothers and sisters of the YPG are not terrorists, they are heroes who have been part of a broader Kurdish fight against decades of oppression; first in defence of their villages during Saddam Hussein's racist war of genocide against the Kurds. Then later against Sunni fundamentalists (many of whom were dregs of the Ba'athist regime) of Al-Qaeda and ISIS, and of course also Turkey and particularly the more recent theocratic madmen of Erdogan and his AKP Party.

    Furthermore, this charge seems to be extremely legally dubious. He is charged under section 6 of the Terrorism Act 2006, which outlaws giving training that will be used to support etc etc acts of terror. Section 20 of that act defines acts of terror as being acts taken for the purposes of terror, as defined in the Terrorism Act 2000 with particular reference to section 1(5).

    Section 1(5) of the Terrorism Act 2000 defines an act of terror as encompassing acts for the benefit of a proscribed (banned) organisation. The YPG is not a proscribed organisation under the UK law. The PKK is, but the YPG is not.

    The earlier subsection of section 1 defines acts of terror as serious violence, serious damage to property, endangerment of life, disruption of electronic systems etc etc where the act is designed to;

    (1) Influence the government [or an international governmental organisation] or intimidate the public or a section of the public, and
    (2) done for the purpose of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause

    It's hard to see how the YPG's acts would meet the first limb (s(1)(b), influencing the government); the YPG's acts of violence are not undertaken to influence the UK government, or intimidate the public or a section of the public.

    Anyway, boo to the CPS! There was pressure from "certain sections" of the community to charge those fighting for the Kurds because they said it was "unfair" and "one-sided" if those who were fighting for ISIS, Al-Qaeda and various Islamist groups (some of which enjoyed mainstream support within certain communities within the UK) were charged while those who were joining groups fighting these Islamist groups were not. This is pandering; we should not be bashful about saying Islamist groups are bad, and the Kurdish YPG and Pesh are good.
    Maybe if we left NATO, like Corbyn wants, we wouldn't have to treat all these groups as terrorist organisations.
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    (Original post by Death and Taxes)
    We should congratulate thos willing to fight terrorism, not persecute them.


    They are worth a million keyboard warriors who claim Isis are bad but are too cowardly to do anything themselves.
    Yes.. cowardly. You're going to have to indulge me here, how is it cowardly not to ship yourself off to some far flung '**** hole' where the likelihood of being vaporized by a Russian bomb or beheaded by some mad mullah on Youtube is rather high? Most people would call that a sign of sanity as opposed to cowardice.
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    Ham only likes Kurds cause they're useful idiots for Israel
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Doesnt that rather depend on what one considers 'justifiable'? After all the Turks policy is essentially a hybrid of terror and ethnic cleansing given their propensity to bulldoze villages. I for one would deem there acts, whilst less than stellar, little more than tit for tat.
    Of course, but I think that one can draw an objective line in the sand at the point at which a group starts to target civilians.

    As long as a group is confining itself to military, intelligence and valid police targets (for example, attacking police involved in supporting military operations and suppressing Kurds in the southeast, not bombing the Istanbul CID), the "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" proposition holds true.

    But once you start deliberately attacking civilian targets, you have crossed a very important, moral line and at that point, questions of legitimate grievances go out the window. No political grievance justifies the targeting of civilians.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Of course, but I think that one can draw an objective line in the sand at the point at which a group starts to target civilians.

    As long as a group is confining itself to military, intelligence and valid police targets (for example, attacking police involved in supporting military operations and suppressing Kurds in the southeast, not bombing the Istanbul CID), the "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" proposition holds true.

    But once you start deliberately attacking civilian targets, you have crossed a very important, moral line and at that point, questions of legitimate grievances go out the window. No political grievance justifies the targeting of civilians.
    Strangely enough I actually agree with what you've said here, the only point I would raise though is that in times of war those who try to stick to the moral high ground tend to get beaten in record time.
 
 
 
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