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B1335 - Handgun Ownership and Regulation Bill 2018 watch

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    (Original post by Saunders16)
    It most certainly makes things better, as the ability to defend one's property or body with a firearm against those who wish to harm or steal allows crime to be prevented and injustice to be prevented.
    Or alternatively to escalate a situation and bring no benefit whatsoever...

    We have a police force – this House should not be encouraging vigilantism.
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    I'd like to see more detailed information on safe storage, and a cap on pricing for psychiatric tests per year. But, the other safeguards are well thought out and there is some compelling evidence.

    A tentative aye on what a second reading produces.
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    (Original post by JoeL1994)
    I'd like to see more detailed information on safe storage, and a cap on pricing for psychiatric tests per year. But, the other safeguards are well thought out and there is some compelling evidence.

    A tentative aye on what a second reading produces.
    See page 1 for information on secure storage which would be consistent with current guidelines for issuing of licences of certain weapons and ammunition

    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Or alternatively to escalate a situation and bring no benefit whatsoever...

    We have a police force – this House should not be encouraging vigilantism.
    Is self defence vigilantism?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Is self defence vigilantism?
    It depends upon the proportionality of the self-defence.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Or alternatively to escalate a situation and bring no benefit whatsoever...

    We have a police force – this House should not be encouraging vigilantism.
    If homicide rates are exactly the same then that means that, overall, gun legalisation would not escalate situations and bring no benefits but instead put more power into the hands of potential victims, creating a safer and more independent society. Instead of encouraging vigilantism it encourages self-defence, stopping innocent people from becoming victims in the first place.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    What is this?/I'm confused
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    B1335 - Handgun Ownership and Regulation Bill 2018 - the Rt Hon Jammy Duel, Seconded by: the Hon. Connor27 MP



    Handgun Ownership and Regulation Bill 2018

    An Act to reintroduce strictly regulated handgun ownership to the UK for those who demonstrate the ability to handle handguns safely and are of sound mind.

    BE IT ENACTED by The Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons in this present Parliament assembled, in accordance with the provisions of the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—


    1: Definitions
    (1) For the purposes of this bill a "handgun" shall be defined as a single action, double action, or semi-automatic weapon designed for one handed use;
    (2) For the purposes of this bill a "certification body" shall be defined as any gun club or other body registered with the Home Office to be able to certify competence with a handgun;;
    (3) For the purposes of this bill a "Registered Psychiatrist" shall be a member of the Royal College of Psychiatrists or any other body recognised by the Department of Health as a professional organisation of psychiatrists.

    2: Competence certification
    (1) Any certification body may award Competence Certification that has demonstrated thorough understanding of safe storage and handling of handguns and ammunition;
    (i) The standards expected for certification shall be set out by the Home Office;
    (2) Competence certification expires ten years after being issued;
    (3) Competence certification can be renewed at any time;
    (4) Failure to show the necessary competence when attempting to renew certification will lead to immediate voiding of existing certification, irrespective of how long certification has been held.

    3: Psychiatric evaluation
    (1) All prospective handgun owners must pass a psychiatric evaluation carried out by a registered psychiatrist;
    (2) An examinee is deemed to have failed if they are diagnosed with or suspected to have, pending final diagnosis, any mental disorder which may cause them to pose an elevated threat to themselves or the public as defined by the Home Office and Department of Health;
    (3) An examinee is deemed to be in good mental health for 5 years after passing a psychiatric evaluation;
    (4) Psychiatric evaluations purely to prove good mental health for handgun ownership shall not be covered by the NHS;

    4: Criminal Record Checks
    (1) A prospective handgun owner must pass a criminal record check;
    (2) A prospective handgun owner is deemed to have passed a criminal record check if:
    (a) They do not have any charges for violent or firearms related offences for which they were not acquitted on their criminal record; and
    (b) They do not have any charges on their criminal record for the prior 5 years for which they have not been acquitted on their criminal record; and
    (c) have not served a jail term of any length in the prior 5 years.

    5: Handgun licencing
    (1) Handgun licences shall be issued on a "shall-issue" basis if the applicant:
    (a) possesses competent certification in accordance with Section 2; and
    (b) has passed a psychiatric evaluation in accordance with Section 3; and
    (c) has passed a criminal record check in accordance with Section 4;
    (2) A handgun licence shall be revoked if:
    (a) The holder ceases to hold a valid competence certification in accordance with Section 2; or
    (b) The holder ceases to be deemed in good mental health in accordance with Section 3
    (i) unless the holder is diagnosed with depression the; or
    (c) The holder is found guilty of any crime in accordance with law;
    (d) 10 years has passed since the issuing of the license, unless renewed;
    (3) A handgun licence shall be suspended and all the holders handguns seized by the police if the holder is charged with any crime until such a time that they are acquitted or the licence is revoked;
    (4) A handgun license shall be suspended if the holder is diagnosed with depression until such a time that they are found to be in good mental health in accordance with Sec
    (5) After revocation, or suspension pursuant to Section 5 Clause 4, of their licence any former licencee must rescind ownership of all firearms of have them verified as disabled by the police, and must rescind ownership of all ammunition within 7 days.

    6: Sales, registration, and storage of handguns and ammunition
    (1) All handguns must be registered with the police;
    (2) Handguns may only be sold to individuals who produce on purchase a valid handgun licence;
    (3) Ammunition may only be sold to a licence holder for handguns they have registration documentation for;
    (4) Handguns and ammunition must be in secure storage when:
    (a) on public land;
    (b) on private land unless consent to the contrary is given by the landowner and the registered owner has the handgun on their person or is supervising the safe use of the handgun.

    7: penalties
    (1) Any individual found to possess a handgun in contravention of Section 5 shall be liable to a fine nor more than £50,000 per firearm, and/or a prison term not exceeding 5 years per handgun;
    (2) Any individual found to possess not more than 250 rounds of ammunition that no handgun they are registered as owning can fire they shall be liable to a fine of not more than £100 per round;
    (3) Any individual found to possess more than 250 rounds of ammunition that no handgun they are registered as owning can fire shall be liable to a fine not more than £100 per round and a prison term not exceeding 10 years;
    (4) Any individual found to sell a handgun in contravention of Section 6 shall be liable to a fine of not more than £50,000 and/or a prison term not exceeding 5 years;
    (5) Any business found to sell a handgun in contravention of Section 6 shall be liable to a fine of not more than £100,000 and/or a suspension of their licence to sell firearms;
    (6) Any individual found to sell ammunition in contravention of Section 6 shall be liable to a fine of not more than £100 per round and/or a prison term not exceeding 5 years;
    (7) Any business found to sell a handgun in contravention of Section 6 shall be liable to a fine of not more than £250 per round and/or a suspension of their licence to sell firearms;
    (8) Any certification body found to issue certification in contravention of Section 2 shall be liable to a fine of not more than £50,000 and revocation of their ability to issue certification for not more than 10 years.

    8: commencement and extend
    (1) This Act extends to England and Wales;
    (2) The provisions of this Act come into force immediately following Royal Assent.
    (3) This Act may be cited as the Handgun Ownership and Regulation Act 2018.

    Notes
    This bill allows for the ownership of handguns and carry of on private property to those who have demonstrated themselves competent in handgun safety, and show no signs of undue danger to themselves or others through ownership of a firearm. Section 2 means that only those who have demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that they are, from a practical and theoretical standpoint, safe with a handgun may own one. Section 3 means that only those who do not post an elevated risk to themselves or others can legally own a firearm. Section 4 excludes from legal ownership those who have a proved violent history, or a recent history of crime, no matter how petty.

    The original handgun bans were unnecessary knee jerk reactions and over the last 20 years there has been no evidence to show that this has made the country any safer:
    the homicide rate remains unchanged
    Spoiler:
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    The reduction of violent crime did not accelerate
    Spoiler:
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    Reported overall crime rates were not reduced, and estimated crime rates did not decrease any faster


    And before anybody shouts "but America" there is also no strong correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates either in the US:
    Spoiler:
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    Or globally
    Spoiler:
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    The original bans were emotionally motivated and there is no evidence of any tangible benefit, consequently all the bans achieve is to prohibit otherwise sane and law abiding citizens from the right to bear arms on private property with the consent of the land owner, and this bill intend to mark a compromise between this right, and ensuring that it is only law abiding, sane individuals who can demonstrate they are safe to own a gun are the only ones able to do so.
    Concur, except that last paragraph should end: "the only ones able to do so legally." Criminals will always be able to get weapons. You cannot end the trade in illegal drugs by passing laws, and you cannot end the trade in illegal guns by doing the same thing. Most people with any sense at all would have realised this by now. Cheers.
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    (Original post by Rabbit2)
    Concur, except that last paragraph should end: "the only ones able to do so legally." Criminals will always be able to get weapons. You cannot end the trade in illegal drugs by passing laws, and you cannot end the trade in illegal guns by doing the same thing. Most people with any sense at all would have realised this by now. Cheers.
    Have you considered joining our little forum by joining a party?
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    (Original post by Saunders16)
    If homicide rates are exactly the same then that means that, overall, gun legalisation would not escalate situations and bring no benefits but instead put more power into the hands of potential victims, creating a safer and more independent society. Instead of encouraging vigilantism it encourages self-defence, stopping innocent people from becoming victims in the first place.
    Violent self-defence is something to be tolerated to such an extent as it is necessary, it isn't something to be encouraged. We shouldn't be literally encouraging citizens to bring a gun to a knife fight.

    I'm not sure what relevance the homicide rate has to escalation – there doesn't need to be a death for a situation to be unnecessarily escalated. There are a vanishingly small number of situations in modern Britain where throwing a gun into the mix would be of any benefit.
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    I think what also should be mentioned in the debate section (given I don't think people are massive fans of reading notes, especially long sets) is that in the context of the terrible events afternoon it will most likely be a mental health issue, as is normally the case with mass shootings, and the bill is written specifically to deal with this potential issue.
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    aye
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    Change for the sake of change. Nay.
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    (Original post by CoffeeGeek)
    Change for the sake of change. Nay.
    Sorry, this isn't a government bill.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Sorry, this isn't a government bill.
    So it must be ok to change for the sake of it as long as it's not a government bill... At least you've confirmed what we've all known that you oppose for the sake of opposing, surprise surprise! Who would have known someone with vested interests doesn't like the government!
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    I am unsure of whether this bill will have positive effects for British society- indeed the "change for the sake of change argument" hasn't been dealt with properly in my opinion. What is currently wrong with the status quo?

    However, there is no doubt that the bill has been drafted well (despite rather irrelevant grammatical mistakes such as "commencement and extend"), that it has provisions that deal with current issues surrounding gun ownership, not least in America, and that it of course acts to extend individual liberty.

    With all these factors in mind, at the moment I will abstain.
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    Vote Aye if only to trigger the Tories.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Vote Aye if only to trigger the Tories.
    I see you've "reformed".
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    (Original post by CoffeeGeek)
    So it must be ok to change for the sake of it as long as it's not a government bill... At least you've confirmed what we've all known that you oppose for the sake of opposing, surprise surprise! Who would have known someone with vested interests doesn't like the government!
    Well it isn't change for the sake of change because it sets out a goal and achieves it in a way designed to try to prevent negative outcomes, and if anything is to reverse former change for the sake of change, except it also improves on what was the status quo beforehand.

    (Original post by LifeIsFine)
    I am unsure of whether this bill will have positive effects for British society- indeed the "change for the sake of change argument" hasn't been dealt with properly in my opinion. What is currently wrong with the status quo?

    However, there is no doubt that the bill has been drafted well (despite rather irrelevant grammatical mistakes such as "commencement and extend", that it has provisions that deal with current issues surrounding gun ownership, not least in America, and that it of course acts to extend individual liberty.

    With all these factors in mind, at the moment I will abstain.
    The problem with the status quo is that it restricts individuals liberties with the evidence showing no actual benefit for the restriction as is shown in the overall homicide rate data and also the breakdown of gun homicides between legal and illegal firearms (although the legal ones could still be being illegally used). The overall homicide rate has not been reduced by the 1997 Acts which suggest the banning of handguns did not reduce overall homicides and the data that has been published over the last few years shows gun homicides in the UK are overwhelmingly committed using unregistered firearms, generally handguns, and that registered firearms are only used in a handful at most of homicides a year despite there being hundreds of thousands of registered firearms; people who legally own guns are responsible.

    We also see other countries which have restrictions along similar lines are very safe, for instance Austria has similar, but less extensive, restrictions than this bill in that there are fewer restrictions and more firearms allowed with no licence or minimal licencing; mental illness prevents the purchase of firearms in Austria and their mass shootings are few and far between despite high ownership rates.
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    Typical arguments in favour of handgun legalisation suggest that people don't get shot by guns, people get shot by people.

    My argument is yes, people do get shot by people: people with guns.


    You can throw all the statistics you want, but I've never come across a way around that logic.

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    (Original post by 04MR17)
    Typical arguments in favour of handgun legalisation suggest that people don't get shot by guns, people get shot by people.

    My argument is yes, people do get shot by people: people with guns.


    You can throw all the statistics you want, but I've never come across a way around that logic.

    Is being killed with a gun worse than being killed with any other weapon?
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Is being killed with a gun worse than being killed with any other weapon?
    Yes since a gun serves no other purpose than killing/damage.
 
 
 
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