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8) Christ Jesus - The Example to Follow !!! watch

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    Jeez there are some essays being written here.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    Dear oh dear old bean. You are really struggling with this I see. Put aside your fears sir. It's clear that the truth of the Philosopher's Stone has you rattled and trying to divert the discourse at every juncture.

    Your reluctance to deal with the issue, reluctance to accept the simple truth and persistence to keep trying to distract just speak of an intense fear to own up to the facts here. Is it because that truth shakes the very foundation of your belief system?

    Does or does not Genesis refer to the process for creating the Philosopher's Stone?

    Does or does not Proverbs 3: 13-20 refer to the Philosopher's Stone?

    Are you so sworn to secrecy that you may not concede the truth?

    As for your continued nonsense on pride, perhaps I should ask . . .

    Is this "God" who you say wants us to turn the other cheek the very same God who:

    - in Genesis drowns the entire living population of Earth, men, women, children, foetuses, animals etc. Essentially Genocide?

    - in 2 Chroinicles 13:15-18 helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites?

    - in Exodus 12:29 slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn?

    - in Genesis 19:24 basically nukes Sodom and Gomorrah and then kills Lot’s wife?

    - in 2 Kings 2:23-24 has some innocent kids mauled and dismembered by 2 bears just because they teased Elisha and called him "baldy"?

    I could go on . . .

    and go on for many pages on the utterly despicable actions and atrocities perpetrated by your God. Genocide, ethnic cleansing, child killing and much much more.

    And now you say he expects us to turn the other cheek?

    The tragedy here is that your own pride and pious stubbornness prevents you from seeing the utter stupidity of the position you are taking which stems from the incorrect and false literal interpretation of the Bible. Your position is indefensible. God is a killer. A killer of men, women, and even children. His deeds have been abominable.
    He is therefore, not perfect, not loving, not faultless and today's world equally demonstrates that he doesn't care a jot about innocent people.

    The literal interpretation of the Bible does not hang together, does not hold up to even the most basic scrutiny and analysis, contradicts itself in 100s if not 1000s of places, and creates a wholly untenable position.

    No honest and rational human being can take a literal interpretation of these documents.

    Now please answer the questions I asked above.
    So you're a god now who is judging God by declaring yourself more righteous than God? I smell rebellion. Well as you are now a god then I'm pretty sure you can begin your own creation and give yourself and others eternal life right?

    And you can declare yourself The Pilgrim of Truth god, so everyone can come to you for the truth and you can feel exceedingly proud of yourself. "Hey listen to me everyone, im the Pilgrim of Truth god and ive made me a creation, who wants to come and join me and be my followers and we can go and look for white stones and drink our own urine. Anyone?"

    No thanks mate, I'll stick with the living God who knows what He's doing.
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    (Original post by Drummond)
    So you're a god now who is judging God by declaring yourself more righteous than God? I smell rebellion. Well as you are now a god then I'm pretty sure you can begin your own creation and give yourself and others eternal life right? .
    Oh dear, this is getting embarrassing now. I'm almost reluctant to continue on the basis that the truth is making you so uncomfortable that you have to keep diverting the discussion and making stuff up.

    Never declared myself a God (though there is a whole debate to be had there) and never declared myself righteous. It is of course your "God" that declares himself thus and whom demands of the rest of us and yet at the same time is guilty of so many abhorrent atrocities. Why would any sane, honest and rational person give their lives over to, and worship, a deity that has committed genocide, ethnic cleansing, child killing, child mutilation and more?

    The answer is because most of them are ignorant of those facts and have been entranced by the sweet spell of mainstream religion which preys on the vulnerable and offers them solace, but which doesn't provide the truth at the same time.

    Your position remains untenable, indefensible, which is why so many Christians shy away from this oh so awkward topic.

    So, back to my questions . . .

    Does or does not Genesis refer to the process for creating the Philosopher's Stone?

    Does or does not Proverbs 3: 13-20 refer to the Philosopher's Stone?


    Are you going to ignore these questions again? Are you going to attempt to distract readers again by rambling off on tangents?
    Are you too fearful of the truth to even discuss it?

    No problem if this is too hard. I appreciate it rocks the foundation of religious fundamentalism.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    Oh dear, this is getting embarrassing now. I'm almost reluctant to continue on the basis that the truth is making you so uncomfortable that you have to keep diverting the discussion and making stuff up.

    Never declared myself a God (though there is a whole debate to be had there) and never declared myself righteous. It is of course your "God" that declares himself thus and whom demands of the rest of us and yet at the same time is guilty of so many abhorrent atrocities. Why would any sane, honest and rational person give their lives over to, and worship, a deity that has committed genocide, ethnic cleansing, child killing, child mutilation and more?

    The answer is because most of them are ignorant of those facts and have been entranced by the sweet spell of mainstream religion which preys on the vulnerable and offers them solace, but which doesn't provide the truth at the same time.

    Your position remains untenable, indefensible, which is why so many Christians shy away from this oh so awkward topic.

    So, back to my questions . . .

    Does or does not Genesis refer to the process for creating the Philosopher's Stone?

    Does or does not Proverbs 3: 13-20 refer to the Philosopher's Stone?


    Are you going to ignore these questions again? Are you going to attempt to distract readers again by rambling off on tangents?
    Are you too fearful of the truth to even discuss it?

    No problem if this is too hard. I appreciate it rocks the foundation of religious fundamentalism.
    No, you are declaring yourself more righteous than God.

    Does the axe say to He that swings it, why are you swinging at this tree and not that?
    Does the pot say to He who is moulding it, why are you doing it this way?

    You are a god pilgrim, but you are not alone, you are in a world full of gods and each one is attempting to raise their self higher than the next. That's what happens when we turn away from God, we become gods.

    People say terms like 'One World Government', as if this is the rebuilding of the Tower of Babel, but the truth is, the Tower of Babel has already been built and we are chatting in it now. The internet is one big tall tower of pride which has reached all the way to heaven. Where with google translate we can understand and reply to a Russian in Moscow or an Peruvian in Lima.

    Everyone coming together with there own opinion, a place where we can speak and gets likes and feel pride at those likes. Or we can even get followers or disciples and think, he or she is following me so they must like me. Then we want more likes and more disciples because it makes us feel good, so we search for more. We make an image of ourselves which we put out on Facebook and twitter for all the world to see and hear and we tend to this image and we mound it for recognition from others. If we think we are attractive then we post pictures of ourselves looking attractive, or if we think we are wise then we write clever things and pose in pictures with a suit on with a bookcase behind. And if we think we're amusing then we say funny things for laughs and post pictures of ourselves doing funny stupid things. It's all pride.

    God is going to destroy the pride in every person in this world, that's written. So we have a choice, we either sacrifice our pride willingly, by giving up our other gods and then the god of ourself. Or, we stubbornly hold on to our gods because our pride is in them is too much to give up and then we will be destroyed with our gods in our pride and stubbornness.

    Every valley shall be exalted and every mountain brought down.

    Look at it as a baseball game. Coming to bat is hearing the word of God. You get one shot only and how far you hit the ball determines how much you understand the word of God. There are four bases.

    The first base is you hear the word of God but Satan comes and takes it away from you.

    The second base is you hear the word of God, but when you begin to follow God in faith, the cares and riches of the world pull you back like they did to Lots wife. You lose faith.

    The third base is you hear the word of God and you follow God for a while but when persecution comes for believing in God, your fear of man is more than your fear of God. No faith.

    The forth base is a home run. You hear the word of God and you do it, you give up your gods and follow God in faith and then when He breaks you of your pride, which He will, and you then return to Him by putting your pride in Him, then He builds you back up and you become a branch of His tree which bears many fruit.

    You're at first base pilgrim.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    i) Does or does not Genesis refer to the process for creating the Philosopher's Stone?

    ii) Does or does not Proverbs 3: 13-20 refer to the Philosopher's Stone?
    i) No it doesn't

    ii) No it doesn't
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    The philosopher's stone, wtf?! Is this Harry Potter? :rofl2:
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    i have read many alchemical texts. there is nothing in them to suggest that the Philosopher's Stone has any concrete reality. at best it is a metaphor for transcendence and ultimate truth.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    ......No problem if this is too hard. I appreciate it rocks the foundation of religious fundamentalism.
    1 Corinthians 14:33 “For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.”

    1 John 4:1 “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.”

    Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
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    (Original post by Drummond)
    No, you are declaring yourself more righteous than God.
    No, I'm really not. YOU continue to make nonsense up to form your pious pride filled prose.

    Any sane and rational human being should reasonably expect from God the same kind of behaviours that he/she/it requires from them.

    If God says "do not kill", "love they neighbour", "do not be envious" and so on, and yet himself kills at will, men, women, children with gay abandon and demonstrates envy and anger and jealousy, then that is a false God. We have been warned to steer clear of false gods.

    (Original post by Drummond)
    Does the axe say to He that swings it, why are you swinging at this tree and not that?
    Does a good axeman rant and rave at his axe when it hasn't been sharpened properly or when the handle hasn't been made strong enough? No. He creates a good tool that can do the job. The poor axeman creates a poor tool and then throws it aside in a fit of rage when it can't chop wood well enough.

    (Original post by Drummond)
    The internet is one big tall tower of pride which has reached all the way to heaven. Where with google translate we can understand and reply to a Russian in Moscow or an Peruvian in Lima.

    Everyone coming together with there own opinion, a place where we can speak and gets likes and feel pride at those likes. Or we can even get followers or disciples and think, he or she is following me so they must like me. Then we want more likes and more disciples because it makes us feel good, so we search for more. We make an image of ourselves which we put out on Facebook and twitter for all the world to see and hear and we tend to this image and we mound it for recognition from others. If we think we are attractive then we post pictures of ourselves looking attractive, or if we think we are wise then we write clever things and pose in pictures with a suit on with a bookcase behind. And if we think we're amusing then we say funny things for laughs and post pictures of ourselves doing funny stupid things. It's all pride.
    You continue your obsession with pride and now I see that you are just an old old dinosaur stuck in the 70s. The way you write, droning on with what you think are good metaphors is so very out of date. I would hazard a guess that you also still love acronyms.

    The internet is a fabulous thing. It has been an absolutely vital step in the evolution of mankind and in the free sharing of information. That some will use it for egotistical purposes is of no consequence. Such people will use whatever environment they find themselves in to promote themselves.

    The internet shares knowledge. Throughout history the difference between those in power and those subjugated has been KNOWLEDGE. The difference between success and failure is KNOWLEDGE.

    The internet IS knowledge. No longer can you hide behind false secrets. No longer can you get away with peddling false information, evil dogma, mind controlling mantra. The internet sets free those who have a desire to learn.

    Without the internet we could never have even envisaged the Elixir Of Life, the Philosopher's Stone. Many would have continued in ignorance and many would have continued to be entranced by the mind control religious systems that have prevailed for so long.

    Without the internet we would not have been informed of the numerous kiddy fiddling religious figures in the Church. We would not have been able to search the Bible in seconds, or the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita.

    The internet frees us from the evil constraints of mind manipulators who for so long have brutally enslaved vulnerable people.

    Eventually the bio-internet will be created. That is, we will all effectively be telepathic and know each others true thoughts. That would change everything.

    (Original post by Drummond)
    God is going to destroy the pride in every person in this world, that's written.
    Your perception of God is false, coming as it does from the incorrect literal interpretation of the Bible. Your persistence in trying to peddle that false story is tragic. You are a manipulator of vulnerable people.

    You attempt to steer people's thoughts and earnest life searches down singular and false paths. You purposely distract and divert. Shame on you.

    Everyone should engage in earnest searching of the truth but when fraudsters say "well you need to think about God and Jesus" they are manipulating and steering earnest search down a prescribed dead-end, which then leads to them being able to control that person who then becomes enslaved. Shame on all who engage in such manipulation.

    (Original post by Drummond)
    Look at it as a baseball game.
    No thanks. This is the kind of crass "teaching" numpties were dishing out in the 70s along with their endless acronyms for everything.

    I'll stick with the truth thanks.

    But if you insist on silly metaphors then I will correct the example.

    In life's game of baseball one must search for the truth

    Base 1 - is where you start to ask serious questions about what you have previously been told by your peers, about your foundational beliefs which have already become questionable

    Base 2 - is where you actually feel confident enough to challenge that conditioning and programming, to ask serious questions, to demand answers to simple rational logical questions, like why do innocent children get illnesses, get raped, why do people suffer torture and so on.

    Base 3 - is where you are able to reject your programming, where you see it for what it is, a system of control in which you have been enslaved for most of your life, believing in fairy stories. At this point you are coming awake, starting to break out of the Matrix.

    Base 4 - is where you begin the real earnest search for truths having "emptied you cup" of all the previous BS you were given by false teachers/preachers and indoctrinated parents. Where you discover things like the Bible is NOT a literal work and simply holds key secrets hidden allegorically and cryptically.

    Base 4 is the end of slavery, where the chains drop off and life really begins. You are at this point "born again" a free human, out of the Matrix, out of the clutches of despicable mind controlling pious religious figures. Fully aware of how they operate, how they exploit people's vulnerabilities and weaknesses and employ the age old tactics of "Campaigns of Fear" and guilt trips.

    Good luck to all earnest seekers, you WILL find the truth. Seek and you will find, is truth. Get to Base 4. Free your mind and throw false guilt aside. You are not going to any hell. You are a free human. Never ever again allow false teachers to chain you.

    Free your mind.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    No, I'm really not. YOU continue to make nonsense up to form your pious pride filled prose.

    Any sane and rational human being should reasonably expect from God the same kind of behaviours that he/she/it requires from them.

    If God says "do not kill", "love they neighbour", "do not be envious" and so on, and yet himself kills at will, men, women, children with gay abandon and demonstrates envy and anger and jealousy, then that is a false God. We have been warned to steer clear of false gods.



    Does a good axeman rant and rave at his axe when it hasn't been sharpened properly or when the handle hasn't been made strong enough? No. He creates a good tool that can do the job. The poor axeman creates a poor tool and then throws it aside in a fit of rage when it can't chop wood well enough.



    You continue your obsession with pride and now I see that you are just an old old dinosaur stuck in the 70s. The way you write, droning on with what you think are good metaphors is so very out of date. I would hazard a guess that you also still love acronyms.

    The internet is a fabulous thing. It has been an absolutely vital step in the evolution of mankind and in the free sharing of information. That some will use it for egotistical purposes is of no consequence. Such people will use whatever environment they find themselves in to promote themselves.

    The internet shares knowledge. Throughout history the difference between those in power and those subjugated has been KNOWLEDGE. The difference between success and failure is KNOWLEDGE.

    The internet IS knowledge. No longer can you hide behind false secrets. No longer can you get away with peddling false information, evil dogma, mind controlling mantra. The internet sets free those who have a desire to learn.

    Without the internet we could never have even envisaged the Elixir Of Life, the Philosopher's Stone. Many would have continued in ignorance and many would have continued to be entranced by the mind control religious systems that have prevailed for so long.

    Without the internet we would not have been informed of the numerous kiddy fiddling religious figures in the Church. We would not have been able to search the Bible in seconds, or the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita.

    The internet frees us from the evil constraints of mind manipulators who for so long have brutally enslaved vulnerable people.

    Eventually the bio-internet will be created. That is, we will all effectively be telepathic and know each others true thoughts. That would change everything.



    Your perception of God is false, coming as it does from the incorrect literal interpretation of the Bible. Your persistence in trying to peddle that false story is tragic. You are a manipulator of vulnerable people.

    You attempt to steer people's thoughts and earnest life searches down singular and false paths. You purposely distract and divert. Shame on you.

    Everyone should engage in earnest searching of the truth but when fraudsters say "well you need to think about God and Jesus" they are manipulating and steering earnest search down a prescribed dead-end, which then leads to them being able to control that person who then becomes enslaved. Shame on all who engage in such manipulation.



    No thanks. This is the kind of crass "teaching" numpties were dishing out in the 70s along with their endless acronyms for everything.

    I'll stick with the truth thanks.

    But if you insist on silly metaphors then I will correct the example.

    In life's game of baseball one must search for the truth

    Base 1 - is where you start to ask serious questions about what you have previously been told by your peers, about your foundational beliefs which have already become questionable

    Base 2 - is where you actually feel confident enough to challenge that conditioning and programming, to ask serious questions, to demand answers to simple rational logical questions, like why do innocent children get illnesses, get raped, why do people suffer torture and so on.

    Base 3 - is where you are able to reject your programming, where you see it for what it is, a system of control in which you have been enslaved for most of your life, believing in fairy stories. At this point you are coming awake, starting to break out of the Matrix.

    Base 4 - is where you begin the real earnest search for truths having "emptied you cup" of all the previous BS you were given by false teachers/preachers and indoctrinated parents. Where you discover things like the Bible is NOT a literal work and simply holds key secrets hidden allegorically and cryptically.

    Base 4 is the end of slavery, where the chains drop off and life really begins. You are at this point "born again" a free human, out of the Matrix, out of the clutches of despicable mind controlling pious religious figures. Fully aware of how they operate, how they exploit people's vulnerabilities and weaknesses and employ the age old tactics of "Campaigns of Fear" and guilt trips.

    Good luck to all earnest seekers, you WILL find the truth. Seek and you will find, is truth. Get to Base 4. Free your mind and throw false guilt aside. You are not going to any hell. You are a free human. Never ever again allow false teachers to chain you.

    Free your mind.
    Stubbornness to go against God is rebellion.
    It's you who is ranting and raving at God, and by doing so you are declaring yourself more righteous than God.

    You say about all the unrighteousness and deception in the world and why doesn't God intervene. Well i'll tell you why Pilgrim, because nobody is asking Him to in faith. What can you or i do about the unrighteousness? Nothing, we are not God. But the truth is, God is showing His people the unrighteousness of this world and letting us see what happens when pride in man blossoms and then when we see the hopelessness of the situation and then we turn back to Him to resolve it.

    God is saying, How can i judge pride if you are out there fighting all the evil in the world in your own pride, you will surely be destroyed. Turn back to Me my people and let me fight for you.

    So that's what i did pilgrim, i gave up fighting the world and turned back to our God in faith and because of this He revealed pride to me and then He puts me in His shadow and i think, what is this marvelous thing that God is doing so i put my pride in God and He closes and seals it all tightly up in Him.

    Then the LORD picks me up and puts me on top of His hill and asks me what do i see? So i look up and i see flat fields, i see fields all around as far as my eyes can see. So i say to Him, i see flat fields, all around i see fields as far as my eyes can see. Then He asks me, tell me what else you can see? So i look up again and i see tents, i see tents all around and in formation, i see tents in their hundreds and in their thousands. So i say, i see tents, i see tents all around and in formation, i see tents in their hundreds and in their thousands.
    Then He picks me up and sits me in a gate and speaks knowledge and wisdom in my ear. So i crouch up to run and i say, let me run and tell man, and He says wait, there is more, let Me give you understanding.

    You see pilgrim, this means nothing to you because you have no faith in God, you have your own gods, the gods of this world which you put your faith and pride in and which you sacrifice to.

    The truth is as sweet as honey and then it tastes bitter when one realises what he must 'do' to receive eternal life, which is turn back to the living God in faith. We love our God because He brought us out of the land of Egypt by faith and with His mighty hand He brought about mighty judgment and He is doing it all over again for us, but only for this one last time.

    This is why we are proud of our God and not of ourselves, we just sit in His shadow, all in formation, patiently in our tents meek and humble and dying to self pride and with all our pride sealed up in Him. Because of this He smiles at us and we smile back, because we now understand, for He is our God and we are His people once again and this time we will listen and not get stubborn and rebel and amen to that.

    Blessed be the LORD our God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
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    Think of the young rich ruler who approached Jesus and asked how to receive eternal life. Jesus then listed the last six commandments, the ones for the love of your neighbor. And the young rich man said these i have kept since my youth, so Jesus searched this young mans heart (because God searches our hearts) and found the man had no faith in Him. So He instructed the man to sell everything which he possessed and then follow Him. By doing so Jesus listed the other four commandments, faith in Him. And the man was very sorry because his faith was in himself and in his possessions and because of this he had no faith in God. He chose mammon over God.

    The commandments are not for those who live in works, they are for those who live in faith, for those who sacrifice their possessions and return to God.

    God has many mansions ready for those who commit to Him in faith, but first they must give up their own homes in faith, which are the work of their own hands, their gods even, which they bow down to and worship.

    Our own homes are an extension of our pride, so when we clean our homes or buy things for our homes then we are tending to them to impress others or ourselves for our glory. Who cleans their home for God? People think, it's my house so I am going to keep it clean. It's all pride. But when you have faith, you sacrifice the work of your own hands and then God rewards you with a new home which is already built by Him. So when you clean and tidy that home, you realise, this house is not my house, it's Gods house which He gave me to stay in. So then when we clean our new house, we are cleaning it for God and not for ourselves. It's a change of thought which can only come by after a commitment to faith. Then you understand that you are just a caretaker of the things of God, but why would He give us much if we can not look after that which is least?

    Jesus walked in to His house and discovered they had made it in to a house of merchandise. No different to our homes right,? Is not our body a home for our spirit? So if our actions come from our heart, then we have to change inside, clean the inside of the cup. We don't put new wine in to old bottles, we put the new wine in new bottles, but most fear man and think the old wine is better.

    There is an order to return to God and it's the same order which Jesus demonstrated. It is by not only hearing the word of God, but doing the word of God.

    Mostly at a wedding the best wine comes out first and then when everyone is merry, the cheaper wine appears. But with God, He saves the best wine till last, because the best wine is the truth. Amen.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    God is a killer. A killer of men, women, and even children. His deeds have been abominable.
    He is therefore, not perfect, not loving, not faultless and today's world equally demonstrates that he doesn't care a jot about innocent people.

    The literal interpretation of the Bible does not hang together, does not hold up to even the most basic scrutiny and analysis, contradicts itself in 100s if not 1000s of places, and creates a wholly untenable position.

    No honest and rational human being can take a literal interpretation of these documents.

    Now please answer the questions I asked above.
    This is where you declare yourself more righteous than God and therefore a god yourself.

    Let us pretend that you are god for a moment Pilgrim. Now you've got your very own creation and you have your suspended control room with glass frontage looking out over all your creation and you've got the latest new gucci tannoy system called prophet to talk with us. You also have a big red button on the control panel which says 'Renew people' and another blue button which says 'earthquake'.

    So on your first day as being God we all stand to attention below you awaiting instruction and then you tannoy that you want us to go and search for and mine 'white stone' because it restores our health and gives us eternal life. But we look at each other and say, stuff that let's go and build houses and ride these horses and see who's the fastest and then we can go and hunt and find out who has got the best occupation. So we turn our backs on you and go off and build houses and cities and we start hunting each other and killing each other and completely ignore you.

    You let this go on for a while and every now and then when we're killing each other and seeing who can build the best house you decide to do a quick tannoy message and say, can you stop killing each other and get back to mining the white stone like I asked? But we completely ignore you and carry on killing each other and building stuff.

    Then every time you go of out of the control room into your suspended house to put the kettle on, we all start climbing upon and over each other's shoulders, making a human tower to reach up to the control room to see who can break in and take over the control room as the new god. Each time you come back to the control room with your brew there we are attmepting to smash the glass and break in. So you quickly press the button called earthquake and we all fall down and go off riding horses, building houses and killing each other.

    Time continues like this for four thousand years so you decide on a new plan. You decide to make yourself into a man, like us, and come in to your creation to show us what to do. So you make yourself a man and call him your son and you come in to your creation and demonstrate to us what you want us to do by mining the white stone. Now we watch you mining the white stone for a bit and then we say to ourselves, let's kill him and go back to building houses, hunting and killing each other because that's more fun. So we kill your son and go back to building houses, hunting and killing each other.

    Then after five thousand years, you're in your control room and you take your head from your hands to watch the days killing and building as you have done everyday for the last five thousand years and by this time your beard is growing out of the cracks in the control room caused by us, each time we build the human tower to get in the control room which you keep knocking down with the earthquake. Some of us are even trying to climb up your beard because it's nearly dangling to the floor. But this day you take your head from your hands and you see this guy looking up at you and he is furious and has a red face and is shaking his fist at you. So you turn on the external microphone and this guy is livid and is screaming at you saying, somebody has just got really hurt down here, what sort of a god are you to let this kind of thing happen? Now you are absolutely gobsmacked at this guy pilgrim and you can not believe that this is really happening. Then there is another man who is also upset about the person who is hurt, but this guy sees your startled face in the control room and decides on another approach. So this other man decides to kneel down and he says, looking toward the ground, We're really sorry we have ignored you for the past five thousand years, but things are getting a little out of hand down here, so could you please step in and help us, and we will promise to start mining the white stone like you asked and we also promise that we'll stop building the tower to take over every time you go and make a cuppa.

    Two questions for you as god pilgrim.

    1. Which of the two men goes down the better with you?

    2. How long before you press the red button? Are you a longsuffing god who loves us and waits over five thousand years? Or are you an impatient mangod who hates us and can not even wait five days?
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    This is getting rather facile Drummond. Your thinking, your "logic" is completely obstructed by the religious dogma that you have taken for yourself from others. As a result you lack an ability to debate, to be brutally honest and instead hide behind rather childlike metaphors and made-up scenarios.

    It's fear, lack of self confidence that drives this. The metaphorical inability to let go of mummies hand and step out into the big wide world and face it head on.

    "God" does not exist in the manner the Bible presents, in the fairy stories of a man looking down, displeased with his creations, levelling cities, murdering children and so on. If he did, you would be wholly wrong to endear and worship such a person. Simple rational logic tells you this, but those conditioned by religious dogma and years and years of social programming by the church have allowed fantasy to replace rational thought even to the extent that they are now frightened to even consider the remote possibility that God does not exist (in the way the Bible relates).

    Even the farcical God you describe in your last post is ridiculous.

    In your programmed world there are absolutes that can be tested and measured:

    - God is either perfect or he isn't
    - God is either all-caring and all-loving or he isn't
    - God is either all-powerful or he isn't
    - God is either all-knowing or he isn't
    - God is either ever-present or he isn't

    If mankind is flawed, has gone wrong, is unable to survive, then it is because of God's failure to create a perfect being and/or God's failure to create a perfect environment.

    In your world, God is a mechanic and he has set about creating a planet of robots. Biological robots, but robots nevertheless. He's given them very limited knowledge of the world to keep them ignorant because he fears what might happen if they had the same knowledge as he does. He's given them short life span, presumably because that also ensures that their knowledge remains limited.

    God doesn't save people from being murdered, or tortured or sexually assaulted and raped. He doesn't prevent people getting awful terminal illnesses and diseases, things which he himself must have created.

    God is essentially out of control. He has created an utter mess, that is flawed throughout. He lit the blue touch paper and simply walked away and left everything to descend into abject chaos with all the pain and suffering of innocent people that this results in.

    In the end, he is a jealous and vain God according to the Bible. A God who murders at will, who kills children as easily as men and women, who sends bears to maul children just because they teased a bald guy, a God who is willing to destroy all living things if it suits him.

    One doesn't need to judge or pretend to be God to simply accept these facts that are recorded in the Bible. You either believe and accept what the Bible says or you don't. If you don't then there's no need to persist with the illusion of God in this form. If you do then you have to concede what kind of being this form of God is.

    Either way, simple rational thought, conducted without fear, leads you to the conclusion that God, in the form related by the Bible, is nothing but a fairy story.

    Once people get their heads around that they can set about finding the truth. Which is that the universe has a single core source of life-energy from which all things are formed. You can call this "God" if it helps but personally I don't think it helps because the term "God" is too synonymous with a fictional entity related in the Bible.

    The Bible is utter nonsense. It's hugely edited, missing hundreds of important documents which HUMANS have conveniently removed or omitted in order to create their own scripture. It is censored, changed, edited. Not an original work. Just a [email protected] collection of dubious separate works that simply can not be trusted to be the truth.

    Basing one's life beliefs on such a work is complete folly.

    We deserve the truth not some fraudulent concocted work designed to be the foundation of human behavioural control systems.

    We are all one.

    All of us.

    We are all made of the same stuff. The same life-energy. We are all native to this universe along with every other living thing. There is no Heaven or Hell in literal terms. Those are allegorical terms.

    What there are, are living beings, entities of varying forms. Some more advanced than others. Some have immense power and control and their primary fear is that they will lose it. They must keep everyone else suppressed, ignorant of the truth, so they can not gain the same level of power. So it has always been. Religion is their system of control. Works like the Bible are their own created rule book, there to tell people how to behave, how to fear, how to eat, how to live, in essence, a replacement for thinking for oneself.

    I do not subscribe to this false mantra.

    The Bible is not a literal work. It never was. Quoting from it to present literal meaning is stupid.

    The Bible is allegorical, cryptic, coded and contains important secrets.

    We must free our minds from the spell that has clouded them. Exercise rational thought, think for ourselves and do so without fear or guilt or remorse. We must either weigh the facts as they are presented and see the truth . . . . or fall into religious enslavement and darkness.
 
 
 
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