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    (Original post by ecolier)
    You can be a long term locum working for the same firm 9-5, or a long term locum working on an acute rota (= doing on-calls), or a short term locum just working the odd shift here or there (in addition to working full time)

    Usually the short term locums are on-call shifts, e.g. you work 9-5 one day, and stay to work 17-22 (getting additional pay for the 5 hours); or you are free one weekend, so you work 9-5 on Saturday and Sunday (getting pay for 16 hours). Or you may be able to even take annual leave and then locum (you must clarify with HR before doing this)
    What would the pay be like for the extra 5 hours? And what sort of jobs do doctors normally do on call? How do you prevent people from over-committing to work so that they don't do over 48 hours average per week?
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    (Original post by Haler22)
    What would the pay be like for the extra 5 hours?
    It really depends on which hospital you are working for, what department you'll be working in, how close to the time they have advertised / you have agreed, and what grade you are in.

    And what sort of jobs do doctors normally do on call?
    Seeing sick patients, doing out-of-hours ward rounds (usually weekends), clerking patients admitted, potentially assisting with (emergency) surgery.... lots more but there shouldn't be any routine work.

    How do you prevent people from over-committing to work so that they don't do over 48 hours average per week?
    If you don't locum, it should be easy because the rota is planned out for you. If you are consistently staying late (due to workload), there is a system called "exceptional reporting" that you can make an online report about the hours you have stayed late and you can claim time or money back.

    If you locum, they rely on your being complaint yourself. You could be in trouble if you work in excess of the arbitary hours just because you are locuming.
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    (Original post by ecolier)
    It really depends on which hospital you are working for, what department you'll be working in, how close to the time they have advertised / you have agreed, and what grade you are in.



    Seeing sick patients, doing out-of-hours ward rounds (usually weekends), clerking patients admitted, potentially assisting with (emergency) surgery.... lots more but there shouldn't be any routine work.



    If you don't locum, it should be easy because the rota is planned out for you. If you are consistently staying late (due to workload), there is a system called "exceptional reporting" that you can make an online report about the hours you have stayed late and you can claim time or money back.

    If you locum, they rely on your being complaint yourself. You could be in trouble if you work in excess of the arbitary hours just because you are locuming.
    So in that sense, we get autonomy to decide how many hours of locum we want to work? Also why would anyone report themselves? Does that mean you can esentially work as long as you want, if it isn't having a huge effect?
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    (Original post by Haler22)
    So in that sense, we get autonomy to decide how many hours of locum we want to work?
    Technically, but you don't want to work too much (otherwise all of us will be working all the time!) (1) Working "normally" is hard enough as it is (2) Many of us consider the rate of pay too low (3) Most of us value our free time much more than they are willing to pay.

    Also why would anyone report themselves? Does that mean you can esentially work as long as you want, if it isn't having a huge effect?
    I am sure there are ways they will know how many hours you are working. (1) Dishonesty is not a good look for doctors (2) It is proper trouble, not a slap on your wrist....
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    (Original post by ecolier)
    Technically, but you don't want to work too much (otherwise all of us will be working all the time!) (1) Working "normally" is hard enough as it is (2) Many of us consider the rate of pay too low (3) Most of us value our free time much more than they are willing to pay.



    I am sure there are ways they will know how many hours you are working. (1) Dishonesty is not a good look for doctors (2) It is proper trouble, not a slap on your wrist....
    I completely get that, I wouldn't want to do something like that but i was just thinking hypothetically. Also you say the pay is too low. Isn't it above the basic rate, however, and so isn't it more lucrative? Could I, in essence, fill my timetable up so that I'm working exactly 48 hours a week everyweek? Or is it difficult?
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    (Original post by Haler22)
    I completely get that, I wouldn't want to do something like that but i was just thinking hypothetically.
    Yes. You do not want to cheat the system.

    Also you say the pay is too low. Isn't it above the basic rate, however, and so isn't it more lucrative?
    Obviously, but most doctors would not consider it high enough for them to locum (hence there are the gaps!)

    Could I, in essence, fill my timetable up so that I'm working exactly 48 hours a week everyweek? Or is it difficult?
    It is possible, and you'll be very good friends with your rota co-ordinator.
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    (Original post by ecolier)
    Yes. You do not want to cheat the system.



    Obviously, but most doctors would not consider it high enough for them to locum (hence there are the gaps!)



    It is possible, and you'll be very good friends with your rota co-ordinator.
    Thanks very much PRSOM
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    As already explained, your rota is pre-determined with the basic hours being 40/week Mon-Fri 9-5. Hours beyond this earn you additional hourly rates, with the more antisocial hours being at enhanced rates.

    You can locum to your hearts content, with rates generally ranging from £25-60/hr expending on your grade, the shift, the notice and how desperate the trust is.

    You can opt out of the EWTD and have no restriction on your hours, but if you make a mistake, don’t be surprised if you overworking is used against you. The GMC expects you to take adequate breaks to ensure you are rested.

    Also I don’t know how healthy it is to cram your life with locum work. I know a guy who would do 20 night shifts in a row and made obscene amounts of money. Unsurprisingly he collapsed on shift and had to be admitted.

    It’s not that pay is bad anyway. I’m in core training, work 48hrs a week (average) and am on £48k.
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    As already explained, your rota is pre-determined with the basic hours being 40/week Mon-Fri 9-5. Hours beyond this earn you additional hourly rates, with the more antisocial hours being at enhanced rates.

    You can locum to your hearts content, with rates generally ranging from £25-60/hr expending on your grade, the shift, the notice and how desperate the trust is.

    You can opt out of the EWTD and have no restriction on your hours, but if you make a mistake, don’t be surprised if you overworking is used against you. The GMC expects you to take adequate breaks to ensure you are rested.

    Also I don’t know how healthy it is to cram your life with locum work. I know a guy who would do 20 night shifts in a row and made obscene amounts of money. Unsurprisingly he collapsed on shift and had to be admitted.

    It’s not that pay is bad anyway. I’m in core training, work 48hrs a week (average) and am on £48k.
    Do you do much locum work? Also I'm just a little concerned after tax as the fee then becomes small. Do you know anyone who's opted out of the EWTD? You mention a guy who did 20 night shifts in a row, how much was he earning roughly and what trouble did he get in? I feel his example is a little excessive, but how did he end up with so much work, especially during the night? And also do you know when private work becomes available? I assume it's once you become a consultant? Is this easy to obtain?
    Thanks a lot for your response, is your 48k/year as a CT1 or CT3+?
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    (Original post by Haler22)
    Do you do much locum work? Also I'm just a little concerned after tax as the fee then becomes small. Do you know anyone who's opted out of the EWTD? You mention a guy who did 20 night shifts in a row, how much was he earning roughly and what trouble did he get in? I feel his example is a little excessive, but how did he end up with so much work, especially during the night? And also do you know when private work becomes available? I assume it's once you become a consultant? Is this easy to obtain?
    Thanks a lot for your response, is your 48k/year as a CT1 or CT3+?
    I don’t do locum work, purely because I feel like I already dedicate a lot of my time to this job, including portfolio and exam work in my spare time. And to me, £35/hr isn’t really worth the extra hassle and risk.

    Also I live quite comfortably with my salary. When you look at it, it’s pretty decent and well above the national average. I can afford to live in a nice flat, run a sporty car, eat out frequently, have small holidays and still save money (I don’t have kids and I live outside of London).

    The guy I mentioned didn’t get into trouble, but he ended up hospitalising himself. But I bet if he made a significant mistake during his ridiculous shifts, the hours he chose to work would be used against him.

    I imagine he was earning about £55 an hour doing 8he shifts, so you do the maths. He could do this because there was nobody else to cover the shifts. It’s a buyers market.

    Private work is limited to consultancy really. There are bits you can do as a junior but this is more or less limited to doing crem forms whenever they pop up. You get paid about £70 for about 15m work. But these are few and far between.
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    I only do locum work if I am getting time off my normal job as part of it (e.g. work this week of nights for x raye of pay and you also don't need to work your normal daytime job for that period)
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    (Original post by Etomidate)
    I don’t do locum work, purely because I feel like I already dedicate a lot of my time to this job, including portfolio and exam work in my spare time. And to me, £35/hr isn’t really worth the extra hassle and risk.

    Also I live quite comfortably with my salary. When you look at it, it’s pretty decent and well above the national average. I can afford to live in a nice flat, run a sporty car, eat out frequently, have small holidays and still save money (I don’t have kids and I live outside of London).

    The guy I mentioned didn’t get into trouble, but he ended up hospitalising himself. But I bet if he made a significant mistake during his ridiculous shifts, the hours he chose to work would be used against him.

    I imagine he was earning about £55 an hour doing 8he shifts, so you do the maths. He could do this because there was nobody else to cover the shifts. It’s a buyers market.

    Private work is limited to consultancy really. There are bits you can do as a junior but this is more or less limited to doing crem forms whenever they pop up. You get paid about £70 for about 15m work. But these are few and far between.
    So do consultants pick and choose private work, or is it as if they're competing for it? Some of the stuff you've mentioned is really insightful, I'm just worried as I need to pay off certain debts and really want to help my family out when I get to that stage. I find it pretty crazy that the guy earned almost 9k for 20 days of work, however, was this whilst working his normal shift? I ask because Nexttime mentioned that sometimes locum work enables you to skip daytime work (how can this be the case?). So ultimately, do you think a ST1 or CT1 can get to 50k a year post tax, working locums etc? I imagine it would be hell, but yeah.
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    (Original post by Haler22)
    I ask because Nexttime mentioned that sometimes locum work enables you to skip daytime work (how can this be the case?).
    I get the strong impression you have not worked a job before :p:

    You work where you are needed. In some circumstances, they really need a night or weekend person and are willing to pull you off daytime duties to fill it.

    So ultimately, do you think a ST1 or CT1 can get to 50k a year post tax, working locums etc? I imagine it would be hell, but yeah.
    Post-tax?! That'd be about 90K pre tax- no way that will be possible really.

    Remember that you are not allowed to work more than 56 hours per week, which on most jobs will mean you are able to do a maximum of 8 hours locuming per week. Even at a high rate of £50 per hour, and even assuming you push it to the absolute limit, you're looking at at most £20K extra pre-tax, which is about £10k extra post-tax. So you're probably looking at max £35k post-tax, student loan and pension. I guess you could opt out of the pension but the pension is a good deal and that is not advisable. Also remember you also need to pay GMC fees, MDU fees, exam fees, and a few other costs, which takes away a good 1-2k. Also commute costs (as your job moves large distances very often) can add up.

    You can earn that sort of money in other countries but not in the NHS at that grade.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    I get the strong impression you have not worked a job before :p:

    You work where you are needed. In some circumstances, they really need a night or weekend person and are willing to pull you off daytime duties to fill it.



    Post-tax?! That'd be about 90K pre tax- no way that will be possible really.

    Remember that you are not allowed to work more than 56 hours per week, which on most jobs will mean you are able to do a maximum of 8 hours locuming per week. Even at a high rate of £50 per hour, and even assuming you push it to the absolute limit, you're looking at at most £20K extra pre-tax, which is about £10k extra post-tax. So you're probably looking at max £35k post-tax, student loan and pension. I guess you could opt out of the pension but the pension is a good deal and that is not advisable. Also remember you also need to pay GMC fees, MDU fees, exam fees, and a few other costs, which takes away a good 1-2k. Also commute costs (as your job moves large distances very often) can add up.

    You can earn that sort of money in other countries but not in the NHS at that grade.
    You're right, I have only volunteered haha. And I think it would be about 70-75k surely? I think I will opt out of pension, as I don't really fancy it. However, at CT1/2 isn't the base already near 50k? So surely, locumming and the extra reward for being available on call as well as night shifts could add up?
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    (Original post by Haler22)
    You're right, I have only volunteered haha. And I think it would be about 70-75k surely? I think I will opt out of pension, as I don't really fancy it.
    #yolo

    Honestly, it is strongly recommended you do not do that, but its your funeral (or lack of, due to lack of funds!).

    However, at CT1/2 isn't the base already near 50k?
    I linked the detailed tables to you in this thread earlier. Base pay is £36k.

    I type 90k into a net tax calculator and with tax, student loan and pension it comes to ~49k actually (maybe a bit less - CBA to look at exact pension contributions). Without pension it would be 57k.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    #yolo

    Honestly, it is strongly recommended you do not do that, but its your funeral (or lack of, due to lack of funds!).



    I linked the detailed tables to you in this thread earlier. Base pay is £36k.

    I type 90k into a net tax calculator and with tax, student loan and pension it comes to ~49k actually (maybe a bit less - CBA to look at exact pension contributions). Without pension it would be 57k.
    Fair enough, I guess I might pursue private work in the future to make a little more. I hope I can get into a good speciality lol
 
 
 
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