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    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/2018...rs_a_23368069/

    This idiotic president is suggesting that we give guns to teachers so that they can protect their students when (not if, *when*) there is a gun attack. Guns.. to teachers... where there are students present.... Is he stupid or is he stupid?

    Thoughts..
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    Also.... :lol:

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    While I do believe that this is a pretty bad policy and one of the stupider ones I've heard of - equally, the contention that bringing armed security (i.e. guns) into schools is somehow not a valid solution isn't a sensible one either.

    If you have a situation where armed people are targeting schools, I don't see how armed guards are going to make that situation worse rather than better. There are armed marshals on planes, armed guards at airports, in many countries there are armed guards at banks and jewelry shops. What exactly is the problem with armed guards at schools?

    Absolutely, arming teachers is an absurd idea, though.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    While I do believe that this is a pretty bad policy and one of the stupider ones I've heard of - equally, the contention that bringing armed security (i.e. guns) into schools is somehow not a valid solution isn't a sensible one either.

    If you have a situation where armed people are targeting schools, I don't see how armed guards are going to make that situation worse rather than better. There are armed marshals on planes, armed guards at airports, in many countries there are armed guards at banks and jewelry shops. What exactly is the problem with armed guards at schools?

    Absolutely, arming teachers is an absurd idea, though.
    The way I see it is, having armed teachers will result in a shootout, which could (/will) result in two catastrophic things happening. First, it can prolong the attack as the shootout will last until one of the shooters is killed, or until the police arrive and takeover. As Trump says, these attacks usually last a few minutes because the killer will have done his damage and will try to escape or fails and gets gunned down himself. But if there is an obstacle in his way, and a good one at that, it will last longer and more damage will be done, which leads on to the second catastrophic thing happening - civilian casualties. Students could possibly get caught in the crossfire and especially if the killer (or the teacher) is nervous/not experienced in gun use, they could end up firing all over the place and doing more harm than good.

    I do understand the logic of having armed security, but in an environment where there are lots of young vulnerable, it isn't the right place. More so, imagine if these guns were left unattended or at most, locked away in a drawer. Kids could easily get their hands on them. I just think there are way more risks involved.
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    http://newsthump.com/2018/02/20/teac...o-kill-people/
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    "Barbara is expected to be featured on an NRA poster near you by tomorrow." :rofl:
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    (Original post by euphrosyne)
    The way I see it is, having armed teachers will result in a shootout, which could (/will) result in two catastrophic things happening. First, it can prolong the attack as the shootout will last until one of the shooters is killed, or until the police arrive and takeover. As Trump says, these attacks usually last a few minutes because the killer will have done his damage and will try to escape or fails and gets gunned down himself. But if there is an obstacle in his way, and a good one at that, it will last longer and more damage will be done, which leads on to the second catastrophic thing happening - civilian casualties. Students could possibly get caught in the crossfire and especially if the killer (or the teacher) is nervous/not experienced in gun use, they could end up firing all over the place and doing more harm than good.

    I do understand the logic of having armed security, but in an environment where there are lots of young vulnerable, it isn't the right place. More so, imagine if these guns were left unattended or at most, locked away in a drawer. Kids could easily get their hands on them. I just think there are way more risks involved.
    If the assailant is distracted with a shootout, do you think they would continue with their mission to gundown schoolchildren with the same vehemence? Of course not, they will turn away from their main objective and instead concern themselves with defending themselves/surrendering (if there is even such an option given to them).

    Not that a shootout is a necessary/likely outcome. Usually people shoot when they have a clear line of fire and are confident that Person X is not a student/police officer/Joe Bloggs but someone who has unlawful violent intent. That usually leads to the assailant being incapacitated by accurate gunfire rather than prolonging the attack.

    In fact, a stand-off is a more likely consequence of police involvement. I am not sure if you'd consider having a police officer on-site, thereby prolonging the event, increases the number of causalities or the amount of harm done.

    As for the practicalities of arming teachers, i.e. whether to use of a gun safe or have extensive training, is a separate issue. In the UK, it would seem an odd thought. Even arming and training police officers to use guns would seem bizarre. But you're talking about a much more militarised country than the UK: guns are and gun-related violence is much more prevalent in the US.
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    Any problem caused by a gun can be solved by a gun. It's science.
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    (Original post by Notoriety)
    If the assailant is distracted with a shootout, do you think they would continue with their mission to gundown schoolchildren with the same vehemence? Of course not, they will turn away from their main objective and instead concern themselves with defending themselves/surrendering (if there is even such an option given to them).

    Not that a shootout is a necessary/likely outcome. Usually people shoot when they have a clear line of fire and are confident that Person X is not a student/police officer/Joe Bloggs but someone who has unlawful violent intent. That usually leads to the assailant being incapacitated by accurate gunfire rather than prolonging the attack.

    In fact, a stand-off is a more likely consequence of police involvement. I am not sure if you'd consider having a police officer on-site, thereby prolonging the event, increases the number of causalities or the amount of harm done.

    As for the practicalities of arming teachers, i.e. whether to use of a gun safe or have extensive training, is a separate issue. In the UK, it would seem an odd thought. Even arming and training police officers to use guns would seem bizarre. But you're talking about a much more militarised country than the UK: guns are and gun-related violence is much more prevalent in the US.
    I see your point, but I respectfully disagree. Maybe in some cases, the assailants will try to find cover and protect themselves, but I think in most cases, if the assailant is aware that their opponent is a teacher (I am focusing on the situation where it is simply teacher vs. attacker, before the police are on the scene), the assailant is likely to proceed with their agenda. If you look at why these incidents happen, it's usually because the assailant wants to punish the school due to feelings of anger and pain from isolation or bullying - now these feelings are usually aimed towards the children, but couldn't you argue that the assailant will feel the same amount of hate and anger towards teachers too? Often, they'll blame the teachers for not looking after them and allowing such conduct to happen. More so, these assailants usually have a mental illness*. I have a brother who's severely autistic, and speaking from experience, when he wants something, he'll do anything to make it happen. Let's apply the same example here. If the assailant wants to punish the school (which is usually the agenda), they will do anything and everything to make that happen. If a teacher gets in their way, that will further fuel their anger and they'll most likely attack rather than try to escape. I think these attackers are well aware that the mission they intend to carry out is a suicide mission, and that never stops them. None of it is logical.

    I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some form of armed security, but I just don't think day-to-day teachers with guns will make the problem go away, or better for that matter. It should be left to the police to deal with, or people with armed experience/military background.. if there are teachers with such backgrounds who have the confidence and experience to bear arms and protect the school if there's an attack, then great, but that's not likely.

    *I'm aware that this may not always be the case. But even if there's no mental illness, there's still a feeling of determination to carry out the attack, and I just don't see that determination disappearing if a teacher with a gun gets in the way.
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    (Original post by euphrosyne)
    Also.... :lol:

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    Uhm, that tweet seems illegitimate - there are two spaces in between 'I' and 'want', the font is not the one used on Twitter, and I checked Trump's twitter and there seems to be no such statement made today as the one shown in the picture... :curious:
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    He has got this completely backwards, the solution is not to arm teachers... The solution is to stop people with mental health problems or a history of violence being allowed to buy guns! It's pretty straight forward.

    Also that Tweet is hilarious haha.
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    (Original post by k.n.h.)
    Uhm, that tweet seems illegitimate - there are two spaces in between 'I' and 'want', the font is not the one used on Twitter, and I checked Trump's twitter and there seems to be no such statement made today as the one shown in the picture... :curious:
    Oh my mistake hahaha, I just saw it shared on fb. Just shows you shouldn't believe everything you see on the internet!! :innocent:
    :oops:
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    (Original post by euphrosyne)
    Oh my mistake hahaha, I just saw it shared on fb. Just shows you shouldn't believe everything you see on the internet!! :innocent:
    :oops:
    :lol: No worries
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    He has got this completely backwards, the solution is not to arm teachers... The solution is to stop people with mental health problems or a history of violence being allowed to buy guns! It's pretty straight forward.
    I do speculate that measure will most likely reduce gun violence in the States :yep:
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    (Original post by k.n.h.)
    :lol: No worries
    Wait no, isn't this the tweet? https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...31223002894337
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    While I do believe that this is a pretty bad policy and one of the stupider ones I've heard of - equally, the contention that bringing armed security (i.e. guns) into schools is somehow not a valid solution isn't a sensible one either.

    If you have a situation where armed people are targeting schools, I don't see how armed guards are going to make that situation worse rather than better. There are armed marshals on planes, armed guards at airports, in many countries there are armed guards at banks and jewelry shops. What exactly is the problem with armed guards at schools?

    Absolutely, arming teachers is an absurd idea, though.
    Apparently armed guards in schools is completely normal in Israel.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    He has got this completely backwards, the solution is not to arm teachers... The solution is to stop people with mental health problems or a history of violence being allowed to buy guns! It's pretty straight forward.

    Also that Tweet is hilarious haha.
    The problem there is that for most of these shooters there is no recorded history of violence or (as in the case of the Las Vegas shooter) no recorded history of mental health problems. Not to mention the fact that mentally ill people are more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.


    Most of these people have no expectation of making it out alive so even arming teachers/everyone isn't going to stop them trying.
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    (Original post by euphrosyne)
    Wait no, isn't this the tweet? https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...31223002894337
    Oh.. That tweet seems real, definitely check out for me :yep:

    But that tweet isn't there on Trump's account... strange... :doh:
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    So we are talking of assessing everyone for mental fitness before they buy a gun, is that it? Won't prevent people who develop issues afterwards, as it must be the case with most. It would be a good thing for white coats but it wouldn't be a silver bullet for the problem.

    There is too much of a gap to bridge on this one, the US are not ready to disarm the population. It may well happen again and it can't be fully prevented.
 
 
 
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