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"Let's put an end to gun violence by handing out more guns" watch

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    There is no end to the stupidity arming teachers with guns would increase risks in school many scenarios that I could imagine happening like students stealing guns, teachers turning radical etc. I believe that solution lies within people themselves at the end of the day a gun is a tool and in the wrong hands will be abused. As others have said there needs to be programs in place to help those vulnerable teenagers struggling with mental health and being bullied. Guns need to come off the streets completely.
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    Can you believe these people say America is the greatest country in the world?
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    (Original post by euphrosyne)
    I think in most cases, if the assailant is aware that their opponent is a teacher ... the assailant is likely to proceed with their agenda ... If a teacher gets in their way, that will further fuel their anger and they'll most likely attack rather than try to escape.
    Practically, when an assailant is confronted there is no opportunity for him to hide or continue with the attack. They will typically be confronted with a gun in close proximity (where their gun can be identified, commands issued), usually shots will be fired shortly thereafter and the perp will be bound to return fire or to run.

    It is unlikely that the perp will be leaving but reminded, by Mrs Boggle's challenging him with a shotgun, that he actually hates the school and wants to see everyone dead. That motivation is heavily on his mind anyway.

    if there are teachers with such backgrounds who have the confidence and experience to bear arms and protect the school if there's an attack, then great, but that's not likely.
    There are teachers with such backgrounds. For me, this should be a condition of being able to use a weapon on school property. Extensive training. Naturally, the assumption is that a police officer will end the incident. Usually it is an ordinary beat cop who rushes to the scene and has to deal with it, rather than SWAT.

    Ordinary beat cops are not expert marksmen;* in many ways they are no better equipped to deal with the situation than the ordinary citizen. They are certainly less equipped than a military vet who has happened to change vocation. All the dangers you talk about, shaky hands and missing the shot, are inherent in most first responders. Most of the time the fight instinct kicks in and they manage to deal with the situation effectively.

    *Firearms training takes up on a small portion of their academy curriculum. After all, they have to learn everything UK coppers learn (PACE, bog-standard criminal law, practical investigatory techniques) with the sole addition of firearms.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    The problem there is that for most of these shooters there is no recorded history of violence or (as in the case of the Las Vegas shooter) no recorded history of mental health problems. Not to mention the fact that mentally ill people are more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.


    Most of these people have no expectation of making it out alive so even arming teachers/everyone isn't going to stop them trying.
    Well in a country that allows semi automatic rifles to be purchased over the counter you're always going to have the occasional mass killing which nobody could have foreseen so unless the U.S outlaws all semi automatic rifles there isn't much more they can do.

    Limiting guns to mentally stable non violent people over the age of 21 for example would at least help stop a lot of mass shootings.
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    As things stand when a shooter enters a school he is free to kill until he runs out of bullets or targets. There is nothing to stop him.

    Moreover if a potential shooter knows he will have to confront someone armed he might not make the attack in the first place.

    Trump's idea makes perfect logical sense. As he often does actually, although you wouldn't think so to see how it everything he says is reported in the media.

    Guns will not be banned in America. Not going to happen. Deal with it.

    And in the light of that, thought has to be given as to how the dangers this (admittedly somewhat bizarre) reality brings can be mitigated.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    Well in a country that allows semi automatic rifles to be purchased over the counter you're always going to have the occasional mass killing which nobody could have foreseen so unless the U.S outlaws all semi automatic rifles there isn't much more they can do.

    Limiting guns to mentally stable non violent people over the age of 21 for example would at least help stop a lot of mass shootings.
    You do realize that convicted felons and people who have been committed/declared incompetent cannot buy guns legally? The problem with the guy in Florida was that he was neither.

    The only way your idea might work is to require the same background checks that gun stores do (where the guy in FL bought his gun btw) in other places. But we've already seen that wouldn't have stopped the Florida shooter nor the Las Vegas one.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    As things stand when a shooter enters a school he is free to kill until he runs out of bullets or targets. There is nothing to stop him.
    This is the key point. With the recent high school shooting, students and teachers were cowering in class rooms waiting for the attacker to get to them. Waiting to die, in effect. Teachers regularly shield students with their bodies to save their lives. Instead of being a human shield, those teachers could use that bravery to challenge the attacker.

    But cowering and waiting to die is the only response of unarmed people have for an armed attacker.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    You do realize that convicted felons and people who have been committed/declared incompetent cannot buy guns legally? The problem with the guy in Florida was that he was neither.
    The guy is Florida had a history of violence though but it wasn't picked up in the background check because those checks are not thorough enough. Most school shootings are committed by people under the age of 21 so limiting the sale of any gun to 21 and over is a start.

    Then to buy these guns they should have to go through a much more detailed background check that doesn't just look at criminal convictions but looks at school records, employment history and mental health checks.
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    Yeah, very stupid indeed.
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    I think it's still better than doing nothing
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    I think it's still better than doing nothing
    No. There are few things that could make the gun situation in America worse but having teachers sat their with guns is certainly one of them.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    While I do believe that this is a pretty bad policy and one of the stupider ones I've heard of - equally, the contention that bringing armed security (i.e. guns) into schools is somehow not a valid solution isn't a sensible one either.

    If you have a situation where armed people are targeting schools, I don't see how armed guards are going to make that situation worse rather than better. There are armed marshals on planes, armed guards at airports, in many countries there are armed guards at banks and jewelry shops. What exactly is the problem with armed guards at schools?

    Absolutely, arming teachers is an absurd idea, though.
    The fact that we are talking about the need for armed officers at schools is really quite startling. This is meant to be America, the 'best' country in the world. Not some mob rule country.
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    (Original post by DeBruyne18)
    No. There are few things that could make the gun situation in America worse but having teachers sat their with guns is certainly one of them.
    I don't think it'll make it worse. If there are a lot of armed teachers around perhaps schools will be less of a soft target for shooters.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    As things stand when a shooter enters a school he is free to kill until he runs out of bullets or targets. There is nothing to stop him.

    Moreover if a potential shooter knows he will have to confront someone armed he might not make the attack in the first place.

    Trump's idea makes perfect logical sense. As he often does actually, although you wouldn't think so to see how it everything he says is reported in the media.

    Guns will not be banned in America. Not going to happen. Deal with it.

    And in the light of that, thought has to be given as to how the dangers this (admittedly somewhat bizarre) reality brings can be mitigated.
    It doesn't make sense.What happens when the police get there? They shoot the guy with the gun only in this situation there would be two guys with guns.It also doesn't account for teachers who have issues.What if you get some ex marine teacher with PTSD shooting up the school.Who stops him then? Most of these shooters know the school because they are students there.They will know who's got the guns.They will simply pick the teacher and students who don't have guns to kill.They are going to die anyway they don't care if it's the police or the teachers who shoot them.

    And that's all before you get to the idea of whether you want that kind of power dynamic between teachers and pupils.Teachers have been known to abuse their powers you know? It could be considered totalitarian and a lot more threatening if teachers have guns.In short trumps idea is simplistic and naive and co.es down to good guys vs bad guys.There is no such thing.Thats a childish view of the world.Everyone has the potential to be good or bad.
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    (Original post by euphrosyne)
    The way I see it is, having armed teachers will result in a shootout, which could (/will) result in two catastrophic things happening. First, it can prolong the attack as the shootout will last until one of the shooters is killed, or until the police arrive and takeover. As Trump says, these attacks usually last a few minutes because the killer will have done his damage and will try to escape or fails and gets gunned down himself. But if there is an obstacle in his way, and a good one at that, it will last longer and more damage will be done, which leads on to the second catastrophic thing happening - civilian casualties. Students could possibly get caught in the crossfire and especially if the killer (or the teacher) is nervous/not experienced in gun use, they could end up firing all over the place and doing more harm than good.

    I do understand the logic of having armed security, but in an environment where there are lots of young vulnerable, it isn't the right place. More so, imagine if these guns were left unattended or at most, locked away in a drawer. Kids could easily get their hands on them. I just think there are way more risks involved.
    I don't think any of this is true.

    Let's be clear - I don't agree at all with the armed teacher thing. I would be talking about either security guards or school police.

    But the idea that an armed guard at a school would somehow make a school shooting worse- I don't understand that at all. The scenarios you're suggesting just don't make sense and have no basis in evidence.

    When these shooting occur, they end with either the shooter being confronted by another armed party (almost always the police) and being killed by them or commiting suicide; or the shooter at some point tries to escape. In either case, the shooter coming up against the armed party always improves the situation as the shooter is trying to kill as many civilians as possible. Otherwise, why have the police intervene at all? Why not just wait until the shooter calms down and goes away or runs out of ammunition / people to kill? That's really the rationale of armed guards making the situation worse - in any case - this is intended to be preventative as much as anything else.

    As for school not being the right place for armed guards - many schools and universities already have armed police in them. It emerged that there was one at the school in Florida whom it appears decided not to confront the shooter and has resigned from his job.

    Ultimately, though I think the main way to prevent these things is better policing and mental health services. It appears that two huge policing failures occurred - one with the FBI completely failing to act on numerous warnings about the individual - some were absolutely blatant - like the shooter posting a youtube video under his own name threatening to carry out a shooting - and as above - the failure of the police officer on site to confront the attacker (not that there is any guarantee that he would have found or stopped him - but he should have tried).
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    (Original post by generallee)
    As things stand when a shooter enters a school he is free to kill until he runs out of bullets or targets. There is nothing to stop him.

    Moreover if a potential shooter knows he will have to confront someone armed he might not make the attack in the first place.

    Trump's idea makes perfect logical sense. As he often does actually, although you wouldn't think so to see how it everything he says is reported in the media.

    Guns will not be banned in America. Not going to happen. Deal with it.

    And in the light of that, thought has to be given as to how the dangers this (admittedly somewhat bizarre) reality brings can be mitigated.
    It's probably the most stupid idea he's suggested.

    So you're going to demand that teachers have to be trained combatants and rather than run or hide for protection in the case of a shooting, they have to confront the shooter themselves and risk their own life?

    And what gun should Mrs Winston have? An Assault rifle? Because school shootings tend to be done with them. Having a pistol when the shooter has an assault rifle is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. A teacher with a pistol is not going to deter a lunatic with an assault rifle.

    And do you really think it makes schools a safer place if teachers are say their with weapons of war?
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    I don't think it'll make it worse. If there are a lot of armed teachers around perhaps schools will be less of a soft target for shooters.
    Or some stressed teacher with a gun will be the shooter.Do you think that a teacher would never shoot a school up? You're wrong.And it does nothing to solve the overall problem.If a school becomes a hard target they will just shoot somewhere else.Like a concert for example or a cinema or perhaps a church.Oh wait they've already done that.You would need millions of armed guards to protect every single possible target.Trumps idea is simplistic and just demonstrates his low intellect tbh.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Or some stressed teacher with a gun will be the shooter.Do you think that a teacher would never shoot a school up? You're wrong.And it does nothing to solve the overall problem.If a school becomes a hard target they will just shoot somewhere else.Like a concert for example or a cinema or perhaps a church.Oh wait they've already done that.You would need millions of armed guards to protect every single possible target.Trumps idea is simplistic and just demonstrates his low intellect tbh.
    Or you just allow people to carry around their own protection rather than making it illegal. Teachers can still shoot up schools at the moment, at least with other teachers being armed they can defend the kids in their classroom from both types of attackers
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    (Original post by DeBruyne18)
    It's probably the most stupid idea he's suggested.

    So you're going to demand that teachers have to be trained combatants and rather than run or hide for protection in the case of a shooting, they have to confront the shooter themselves and risk their own life?

    And what gun should Mrs Winston have? An Assault rifle? Because school shootings tend to be done with them. Having a pistol when the shooter has an assault rifle is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. A teacher with a pistol is not going to deter a lunatic with an assault rifle.

    And do you really think it makes schools a safer place if teachers are say their with weapons of war?
    You don’t need special forces training to hide in a classroom with a pistol trained at the door, nor do you need to be a marksman to hit 1/10 shots from a couple of meters away. At close ranges, such as in a classroom, pistols are just as lethal as assault rifles
 
 
 
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