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"Let's put an end to gun violence by handing out more guns" watch

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    (Original post by Drewski)
    It's a 250 year old document written before there were street lights and when any form of firearm took a minute to reload.

    Now, weaponry is capable of firing several hundred rounds in that one minute.

    It's an archaic document that is no longer fit for purpose.

    Hence why additions are called "amendments". They can be changed. And there is precedent for that. Read up on the 18th and 21st amendments.




    All of which is immaterial. Giving guns to teachers is utterly pointless. They don't want them. They can't use them. Having the guns there won't help.
    I wasn’t aware the threat of developing a tyrannical government was a thing of the past *looks at Venezuela and turkey*

    If you were a teacher and there was a school shooting in progress, and there was a handgun in your desk, would you grab the handgun and defend yourself or curl up in a ball and let you and your students be butchered? Honestly I think if you chose the latter you’re an immoral person
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Hmm. That is a very low bar to get over, isn't it? Rather like imposing a qualifying height of three inches for the Olympic high jump competition.
    Whats even worse is that each state is required to pass mental health records to the FBI to put onto their NICS system yet there are no checks carried out to enforce this. There are probably thousands of people who are not even on the database but should be.

    Not one president has really done anything about this. Democrats will harp on about the act that Obama tried to bring in that Trump blocked but what they fail to mention is that it would only relate to mental patients who have got to the point where they are unable to manage their own affairs, like Alzheimers for example. How many people who fall into this category have carried out mass shootings - a big fat zero. Just trying to bump up his popularity without really making any difference.

    No politician is going to try to ban guns as that would be political suicide. As well as that, there are so many illegal guns in the US that if someone wants to get a gun then they will find a way. Hard drugs are banned in the US, how is that working out! The options are to have better databases from which checks are required to be made either administered by the FBI or the NRA.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Which are the sates that are safe?
    I know that Florida is one of them
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    It's a stupid reason.To resist tyranny.*******s.How are you going to resist tyranny when the American government has tanks and helicopters and warplanes? Also it says as part of a well regulated militia.How many Americans are part of a militia? Also the clue is in the word amendment.The constitution was amended once it can be amended again it's not some sacred document that can't be changed.
    How can the taliban resist the US military in Afghanistan then?

    Perhaps we should place more emphasis on more organised militias, that wouldn’t be a bad shout.

    The constitution can be amended if the situation changes, but the threat of tyranny is just as real now as it was then, not to mention losing this freedom now means in the future when it may be needed, it won’t exist
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    (Original post by DeBruyne18)
    And the second amendment is not needed. Other countries seem to manage just fine without their civilians having assault rifles.
    Like Turkey that’s becoming a dictatorship, or Venezuela where the people are shot on the streets for disagreeing with the government?
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    (Original post by D3LLI5)
    I wasn’t aware the threat of developing a tyrannical government was a thing of the past *looks at Venezuela and turkey*

    If you were a teacher and there was a school shooting in progress, and there was a handgun in your desk, would you grab the handgun and defend yourself or curl up in a ball and let you and your students be butchered? Honestly I think if you chose the latter you’re an immoral person
    The irony is that the governments most likely to be tyrannical are the very ones supported by those who worship the second amendment.

    And the notion that the political system in the US is remotely comparable to those in Turkey or Venezuela is laughable.

    My first instinct would be to attack. But I've been trained how to by the military.
    Any normal teacher's first instinct would be to protect their children and help them escape. And that's not going to depend on whether they have a gun.
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    (Original post by D3LLI5)
    Like Turkey that’s becoming a dictatorship, or Venezuela where the people are shot on the streets for disagreeing with the government?
    So we need guns in the UK too then?
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    (Original post by IDOZ)
    I know that Florida is one of them
    Reference?

    Florida has a gun murder rate of 3.4 v the UK at 0.23, so nearly 15 times higher. How is that safe?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Reference?

    Florida has a gun murder rate of 3.4 v the UK at 0.23, so nearly 15 times higher. How is that safe?
    Actually not Florida.

    Look at this map:
    https://wallethub.com/edu/safest-sta...-live-in/4566/
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    (Original post by IDOZ)
    Actually not Florida.

    Look at this map:
    https://wallethub.com/edu/safest-sta...-live-in/4566/
    That is unhelpful. We are talking about safe compared to other countries..
    its also a large presumption that states are safer because of guns.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    That is unhelpful. We are talking about safe compared to other countries..
    its also a large presumption that states are safer because of guns.
    This was an entire conversation that I had with friends a little while ago, and we came to this conclusion: American states are safe because they have guns
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    (Original post by IDOZ)
    This was an entire conversation that I had with friends a little while ago, and we came to this conclusion: American states are safe because they have guns
    Not what the figures say.
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    The idea of arming teachers does seem to miss a couple of fairly likely consequences...
    1) Any would be shooter is likely to target teachers if they may be armed
    2) Shooters are more likely to choose rifles so they have greater effective range than any Rambo teacher

    Anyway, the attack in Florida shows that armed security doesn't necessarily help.

    (Original post by IDOZ)
    I know that Florida is one of them
    I lived in Florida for a year. One of my friends heard two murders from his house in that time... and it wasn't even in a particularly rough area.
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    (Original post by CurlyBen)
    I lived in Florida for a year. One of my friends heard two murders from his house in that time... and it wasn't even in a particularly rough area.
    I got the name wrong, look on the website I linked
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    Hey look, my house is on fire. Only one way to fix this: pour more gasoline!
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    If a crazy gunman goes on a rampage in a school then yes, if somebody else there has a gun and is confident to use it, it may minimise loss of life to have them 'taken down' quicker, assuming that happened - but the situation would still in all likelihood take place. Maybe instead of 17 children dying it would have been 10.
    There would also be statistically more guns in school at all times which may paradoxically increase gun violence because it would no longer need to be pre-meditated violence but could be spontaneous as guns are to hand.

    Of course if nobody had guns then a crazy gunman couldn't go on a rampage in a school in the first place, so you would have zero children dying every time and therein lies the craziness of the first idea.
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    If a crazy gunman goes on a rampage in a school then yes, if somebody else there has a gun and is confident to use it, it may minimise loss of life to have them 'taken down' quicker, assuming that happened - but the situation would still in all likelihood take place. Maybe instead of 17 children dying it would have been 10.
    There would also be statistically more guns in school at all times which may paradoxically increase gun violence because it would no longer need to be pre-meditated violence but could be spontaneous as guns are to hand.

    Of course if nobody had guns then a crazy gunman couldn't go on a rampage in a school in the first place, so you would have zero children dying every time and therein lies the craziness of the first idea.
    The sad reality is, though, getting rid of all guns would be impossible. The US has over 300 million of them.
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    "An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind."
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    The sad reality is, though, getting rid of all guns would be impossible. The US has over 300 million of them.
    It's true it would be extremely hard to sort out. But it isn't completely impossible. If you made guns illegal without a licence and then had some kind of amnesty period over a few years to either acquire a licence (with strong checks) or hand the gun in to authorities to be disposed of, it is feasible. At the same time you could ban the most horrific weapons like the one the guy used in Florida which have rapid fire rates and very high velocities - the latter meaning that not only were lots of people shot but they also had incredibly deadly injuries.

    This makes interesting if sad reading on that subject:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...n-guns/553937/

    I completely understand what you're saying about the sheer number of guns - on a 1:1 ratio to people even. However I think if people are genuinely serious about solving the problem, they'll have to cough up some serious policies to match including facing up to the mammoth task of sorting out so many weapons. It will be very hard but it will not be impossible. It'll take years and years but eventually it will come to pass.
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    (Original post by DeBruyne18)
    So we need guns in the UK too then?
    We don’t need them to survive but they’re the only real effective defence, unless you have another alternative
 
 
 
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