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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well that’s the point. So much pointless sexual repression and guilt would disappear if more religious types were willing to look at masturbation as a completely normal and natural human urge. Makes no sense for a god to make those urges so strong and primal and then expect them to be curbed until marriage.
    To you, as you don't believe, how can it makes sense? It's different for those who believe. You have to accept that you have a different mindset to those who believe, and they to you. Some will drift to your way of thinking, some won't.
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    (Original post by Mil99)
    But why do you then continuously reply to him with answers or comments not relevant to the discussion at hand? Why not cease replying if you don't want to share your view(s) ?
    I did. I stopped replying after his last quote. If Plantagenet Crown was really bothered he would do the research himself rather than anything else.

    By the ways, I did not de-rail the thread. So that's not justified here. All discussions were relevant to the thread post itself.

    Have a great week. 😀.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    To you, as you don't believe, how can it makes sense? It's different for those who believe. You have to accept that you have a different mindset to those who believe, and they to you. Some will drift to your way of thinking, some won't.
    Yes, I know. Doesn’t mean we can’t highlight why the religious justification makes no sense though.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Yes, I know. Doesn’t mean we can’t highlight why the religious justification makes no sense though.
    To you. You can, as it is an open forum, I suppose you enjoy debates where you can do so. I'm interested to know your story, why such interest.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    To you. You can, as it is an open forum, I suppose you enjoy debates where you can do so. I'm interested to know your story, why such interest.
    Well the religionists usually have no reason other than “because God says so”, there’s no critical analysis or independent thinking there.

    Debates are interesting, it’s somethimg proactive to do rather than just reading and never commenting.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well the religionists usually have no reason other than “because God says so”, there’s no critical analysis or independent thinking there.

    Debates are interesting, it’s somethimg proactive to do rather than just reading and never commenting.
    Islam is much more than Allah said so. So for you to state such portrays your narrow mindness.

    Word salad?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well the religionists usually have no reason other than “because God says so”, there’s no critical analysis or independent thinking there.

    Debates are interesting, it’s somethimg proactive to do rather than just reading and never commenting.
    You haven’t researched enough if you’re saying that’s what Islam only offers for its rulings. Most of its rulings, comes with reasons and wisdom in Islam. But each to their own.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well the religionists usually have no reason other than “because God says so”, there’s no critical analysis or independent thinking there.

    Debates are interesting, it’s somethimg proactive to do rather than just reading and never commenting.
    One needs to think independently to accept or refute a certain belief. After belief, it's fair for a person to say 'Because God says so' as they believe but it also wouldn't make for debate with someone who doesn't believe. I guess you have to remember that for them, that's answer enough and for others the like of you, it's no way an answer. Boils down to belief.

    Reading and not commenting also builds knowledge, it's useful in it's own way.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    You haven’t researched enough if you’re saying that’s what Islam only offers for its rulings. Most of its rulings, comes with reasons and wisdom in Islam. But each to their own.
    A religionists would say that though, yet what good reason is there?
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    (Original post by starfab)
    One needs to think independently to accept or refute a certain belief. After belief, it's fair for a person to say 'Because God says so' as they believe but it also wouldn't make for debate with someone who doesn't believe. I guess you have to remember that for them, that's answer enough and for others the like of you, it's no way an answer. Boils down to belief.

    Reading and not commenting also builds knowledge, it's useful in it's own way.
    “God says so” is the complete opposite of thinking independently and researching, it is blind belief and essentially the Nuremberg Defence.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    Islam is much more than Allah said so. So for you to state such portrays your narrow mindness.

    Word salad?
    Most things in Islam essentially boil down to “because God says so”. You’re required to show unwavering, blind obedience to Allah and rebellion or disagreement is punished with an eternity in hellfire. So looks like it’s Allah who’s narrow minded!
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    “God says so” is the complete opposite of thinking independently and researching, it is blind belief and essentially the Nuremberg Defence.
    To essentially believe in a God, they do need to think independently tho. Some will be content just accepting, others not and will research then accept. It's the same with secular knowledge, some go in depth etc and others just accept. Others will refute. Each to their own eh.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    To essentially believe in a God, they do need to think independently tho. Some will be content just accepting, others not and will research then accept. It's the same with secular knowledge, some go in depth etc and others just accept. Others will refute. Each to their own eh.
    But you're saying that either way they'll accept, so there's no room to disagree without being seen as an apostate etc. Cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias can be used to make yourself accept everything a deity says without question.

    I asked this to Ninja Squirrel a while back and he never replied, so I'd be interested to hear your opinion: is there anything Allah could ever do or command that you would disagree with?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    But you're saying that either way they'll accept, so there's no room to disagree without being seen as an apostate etc. Cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias can be used to make yourself accept everything a deity says without question.

    I asked this to Ninja Squirrel a while back and he never replied, so I'd be interested to hear your opinion: is there anything Allah could ever do or command that you would disagree with?
    A believer who continues to believe, they'll have accepted. A believer who stops believing cannot be called a believer as such. That in no way means that they have to blindly accept.

    Rather, "al yawma akmaltu lakum deenakum" "today I have completed for you your religion" hence there's nothing more to be added. With regards to this particular question, I'll answer you elsewhere.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    A believer who continues to believe, they'll have accepted. A believer who stops believing cannot be called a believer as such. That in no way means that they have to blindly accept.

    Rather, "al yawma akmaltu lakum deenakum" "today I have completed for you your religion" hence there's nothing more to be added. With regards to this particular question, I'll answer you elsewhere.
    Well there you have it, you're admitting that you can only come to one conclusion, i.e. acceptance. And let's be honest, the majority of religionists only "accept" their religion because they've been born and raised into it, not because they've actually done serious, in-depth research. And even the beliefs of those who do do research will generally be coloured by the religion they were brought up in. I'm sure you've seen on this site Muslims born and raised saying "even if I hadn't been born Muslim I would have still found Islam and accepted it as the truth". This is of course patent nonsense.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well there you have it, you're admitting that you can only come to one conclusion, i.e. acceptance. And let's be honest, the majority of religionists only "accept" their religion because they've been born and raised into it, not because they've actually done serious, in-depth research. And even the beliefs of those who do do research will generally be coloured by the religion they were brought up in. I'm sure you've seen on this site Muslims born and raised saying "even if I hadn't been born Muslim I would have still found Islam and accepted it as the truth". This is of course patent nonsense.
    Is someone a believer if they don't believe? That's the essence of what I explained.
    Generalisation, you know better.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    I did. I stopped replying after his last quote. If Plantagenet Crown was really bothered he would do the research himself rather than anything else.
    Total nonsense. I was asking you whether you thought masturbation was impure. How am I meant to research what your opinion is? If you were really bothered about people misrepresenting you or finding out answers then you would have replied to the simple yes or no question.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    Is someone a believer if they don't believe? That's the essence of what I explained.
    Generalisation, you know better.
    Acceptance isn't black and white as there many different things that one can accept, it's not just about believing in God. What if someone believes in Allah, but doesn't believe he authored the Quran etc.? There are millions of combinations.

    Generalisations aren't automatically invalid and it's pretty obvious that the one I made is valid. It's not a coincidence that most religionists share the same faith as their parents and community.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Acceptance isn't black and white as there many different things that one can accept, it's not just about believing in God. What if someone believes in Allah, but doesn't believe he authored the Quran etc.? There are millions of combinations.

    Generalisations aren't automatically invalid and it's pretty obvious that the one I made is valid. It's not a coincidence that most religionists share the same faith as their parents and community.
    Somethings are black and white, they're set in stone, you could say. Others aren't, they're grey areas, where in a normal layman is not qualified to say with regards to the everyone as a whole. It is variable per person.

    Generally, they reach an age where they think on their own mind, some don't care and so don't really think about it, others do and so think.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    Somethings are black and white, they're set in stone, you could say. Others aren't, they're grey areas, where in a normal layman is not qualified to say with regards to the everyone as a whole. It is variable per person.

    Generally, they reach an age where they think on their own mind, some don't care and so don't really think about it, others do and so think.
    But as I said, their thinking will generally be biased to the religion they've grown up with, so not truly objective.
 
 
 
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