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    • #6
    #6

    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Indeed, apparently all or most haram things are halal in heaven, which makes no sense from the stance of an objective morality. If Allah decided certain things are so wrong that they warrant eternal torture, then surely these things would always be wrong, i.e. in all times, places and dimensions..
    yes thats right my background is muslim and i find it stupid.

    i have no idea why muslims hate on these very things when they will be doing all of it in heaven lol. they will reply as "this life is a test" lmao
    • #6
    #6

    (Original post by starfab)
    Wrong end of the stick here.
    I can if I wanted to, tbh.
    whats your point?

    you can still follow islam but stop hating on the very things you will be doing in heaven. it doesn't even make sense lol
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    whats your point?

    you can still follow islam but stop hating on the very things you will be doing in heaven. it doesn't even make sense lol
    I don't hate lol.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    The question you posed to starfab, a day ago, regarding if one does not believe in an aspect of Islam.

    If starfab was not knowledgable in such fields she could have been led astray away from Islam without any knowledge because such questions deviate a believer away rather than to Islam. Therefore I have no idea if you are doing this intentionally, I presume you are not(giving you the benefit of the doubt), it's best to refrain because you clearly knew the answer yourself.

    You might have wanted an Islamic stance to this, but phrase it in a way where Muslims can answer without going out their faith.

    Capiche?
    That was a normal question MiszhorTea, one that I am entitled to ask. Once again, you're doing your own religion a disservice by implying that challenging questions can lead Muslims to leave Islam. Is their faith and Islamic doctrine that weak?

    Also, how would answering that question automatically take them out of Islam? Maybe it would if they answered "no", although I don't think you'll be able to find much scholarly opinion on this specific question. Answering "yes" wouldn't stop them being a Muslim, it would just make them look like they follow the religion blindly and respect the wishes of a celestial dictator over their own conscience.

    It's not my problem that some religionists may get uncomfortable with difficult questions, we must always challenge ideologies, it's how we progress.

    Once again, you are trying to control what I can and can't say, MiszshorTea. Don't waste your breath because you're not going to succeed in this endeavour. If you don't like my posts then stop replying to me all the time and getting involved in debate threads, it's that simple.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Indeed, apparently all or most haram things are halal in heaven, which makes no sense from the stance of an objective morality. If Allah decided certain things are so wrong that they warrant eternal torture, then surely these things would always be wrong, i.e. in all times, places and dimensions..
    "Every deed is according to its intention". (Sahih Bukhari, and Muslim).

    Therefore one would be questioned by Allah as to why they took certain actions within themselves to do.

    I will give you an example Planta, if a Muslim was to drink to their fulfilment in this world, they are bringing upon damage to themselves and their bodies.

    This means that the individual would not be in the state of worshipping Allah, due to the state of drunkness they maybe in at the time as well as I doubt they would be saying the correct prayer etiquette should they pray which is not recommended at all.

    Therefore this is one of the many reasons as to why Allah has forbidden a Muslim from drinking and as an alternative, made it halal in Jannah.

    This world is not for enjoyment and play. It is a world full of trials and tribulations. Should one endure such with patience their rewards lies with Allah.

    Alhamdulliah.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    "Every deed is according to its intention". (Sahih Bukhari, and Muslim).

    Therefore one would be questioned by Allah as to why they took certain actions within themselves to do.

    I will give you an example Planta, if a Muslim was to drink to their fulfilment in this world, they are bringing upon damage to themselves and their bodies.

    This means that the individual would not be in the state of worshipping Allah, due to the state of drunkness they maybe in at the time as well as I doubt they would be saying the correct prayer etiquette should they pray which is not recommended at all.

    Therefore this is one of the many reasons as to why Allah has forbidden a Muslim from drinking and as an alternative, made it halal in Jannah.

    This world is not for enjoyment and play. It is a world full of trials and tribulations. Should one endure such with patience their rewards lies with Allah.

    Alhamdulliah.
    But you still have to worship Allah in heaven. And that reasoning is nonsense because even Muslims don't spend every second of every day worshipping, so they could very easily in theory do all their daily prayers/worship and then drink at a convenient time when they're free. And this still undermines the concept of objective morality.
    • #6
    #6

    (Original post by miszshortea786)
    "every deed is according to its intention". (sahih bukhari, and muslim).

    Therefore one would be questioned by allah as to why they took certain actions within themselves to do.

    I will give you an example planta, if a muslim was to drink to their fulfilment in this world, they are bringing upon damage to themselves and their bodies.

    This means that the individual would not be in the state of worshipping allah, due to the state of drunkness they maybe in at the time as well as i doubt they would be saying the correct prayer etiquette should they pray which is not recommended at all.

    therefore this is one of the many reasons as to why allah has forbidden a muslim from drinking and as an alternative, made it halal in jannah.

    this world is not for enjoyment and play. It is a world full of trials and tribulations. Should one endure such with patience their rewards lies with allah.

    Alhamdulliah.
    so you cannot hate on this very thing. You'll be doing it in heaven. Do you not see???
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    How old are you ?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    That was a normal question MiszhorTea, one that I am entitled to ask. Once again, you're doing your own religion a disservice by implying that challenging questions can lead Muslims to leave Islam. Is their faith and Islamic doctrine that weak?

    Also, how would answering that question automatically take them out of Islam? Maybe it would if they answered "no", although I don't think you'll be able to find much scholarly opinion on this specific question. Answering "yes" wouldn't stop them being a Muslim, it would just make them look like they follow the religion blindly and respect the wishes of a celestial dictator over their own conscience.

    It's not my problem that some religionists may get uncomfortable with difficult questions, we must always challenge ideologies, it's how we progress.

    Once again, you are trying to control what I can and can't say, MiszshorTea. Don't waste your breath because you're not going to succeed in this endeavour. If you don't like my posts then stop replying to me all the time and getting involved in debate threads, it's that simple.
    Ask away Planta, but do be cautious because majority of the Muslims here, are not knowledgable in such fields.

    It's not about weak a faith being weak. It's about education, and some individuals have not had the opportunity to seek religious knowledge so you questioning them such brings about no benefit as they will be answering you based upon their opinions rather than what the Islamic stance is.

    Yes there is scholarly opinion on this actually. Having asked my dear Ustaadh himself, he clarified that such would take an individual out of Islam should they affirm or reject such. Intentions play a key role here Planta.

    Challenge them like I said, but do so in a way in which it doesn't affect an individuals belief in the long run.

    That's not my purpose Planta. I don't care about 'winning', that's not my outcome out of this.

    I didn't state I didn't 'like' your posts chill dude. You have an issue with over thinking things.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    so you cannot hate on this very thing. You'll be doing it in heaven. Do you not see???
    No one's hating on anyone drinking, smoking or anything for that matter.

    If that was the case I would point out refuse to treat those patients who have drink problems, or smoking issues for that matter.

    Though I don't, they are treated and happily go home with nothing but love for helping them get better.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    Ask away Planta, but do be cautious because majority of the Muslims here, are not knowledgable in such fields.

    It's not about weak a faith being weak. It's about education, and some individuals have not had the opportunity to seek religious knowledge so you questioning them such brings about no benefit as they will be answering you based upon their opinions rather than what the Islamic stance is.

    Yes there is scholarly opinion on this actually. Having asked my dear Ustaadh himself, he clarified that such would take an individual out of Islam should they affirm or reject such. Intentions play a key role here Planta.

    Challenge them like I said, but do so in a way in which it doesn't affect an individuals belief in the long run.

    That's not my purpose Planta. I don't care about 'winning', that's not my outcome out of this.

    I didn't state I didn't 'like' your posts chill dude. You have an issue with over thinking things.
    Prsom.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    But you still have to worship Allah in heaven. And that reasoning is nonsense because even Muslims don't spend every second of every day worshipping, so they could very easily in theory do all their daily prayers/worship and then drink at a convenient time when they're free. And this still undermines the concept of objective morality.
    Who says we have to worship Allah in Jannah?

    No,hence why Allah has forbidden it in the first place, so that should a Muslim take such decisions upon themselves to drink, it does not cause themselves any harm in terms of prayer.

    Just like drinking and driving.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    Ask away Planta, but do be cautious because majority of the Muslims here, are not knowledgable in such fields.
    Not my problem, I'm not a mind reader who is supposed to know someone's knowledge on a subject before asking a question.

    It's not about weak a faith being weak. It's about education, and some individuals have not had the opportunity to seek religious knowledge so you questioning them such brings about no benefit as they will be answering you based upon their opinions rather than what the Islamic stance is.
    If it is of no benefit then they don't need to respond. That poor reasoning is not justification for me not asking questions.

    Yes there is scholarly opinion on this actually. Having asked my dear Ustaadh himself, he clarified that such would take an individual out of Islam should they affirm or reject such. Intentions play a key role here Planta.
    Please provide sources.

    Challenge them like I said, but do so in a way in which it doesn't affect an individuals belief in the long run.

    That's not my purpose Planta. I don't care about 'winning', that's not my outcome out of this.

    I didn't state I didn't 'like' your posts chill dude. You have an issue with over thinking things.
    No, I will challenge them in whatever way I please. Muslims leave for all sorts of reasons, so by your strange logic we would never be able to ask any questions. Again, the onus is not on me to refrain from difficult questions which may make Muslims doubt their religion.

    False, you have an issue with me asking whatever questions I like. You're not going to control what I say, so you need to chill and relax about that.

    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    Who says we have to worship Allah in Jannah?
    According to islamqa you still have to do tasbeeh and dhikr, https://islamqa.info/en/91836. In any case, this does nothing to change the fact that it undermines objective morality.

    No,hence why Allah has forbidden it in the first place, so that should a Muslim take such decisions upon themselves to drink, it does not cause themselves any harm in terms of prayer.

    Just like drinking and driving.
    I already explained why this makes no sense and how one can drink during their free time and still worship Allah at other times.

    Your drink driving example is fallacious because there you're talking about drinking and driving at the same time.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    I already explained why this makes no sense and how one can drink during their free time and still worship Allah at other times.

    Your drink driving example is fallacious because there you're talking about drinking and driving at the same time.
    One does not have to be a mind reader to know if an individual is knowledgable or not. By the way they speak/write about Islam, can speak volumes rather than anything else.

    Sometimes they have no option but to answer you considering that you will bug them for an answer.

    Sources? You want the screenshot of the convo? Course I will do so.

    Strange logic. 😂. No planta, what I am saying is that you can also be a reason to an individual leaving Islam. Yes there are countless of ways however I don't think anyone wants to be responsible for someone else leaving religion because of their dealings.

    Incorrect, I couldn't careless what questions you ask it's the type of questions that's in refutation here dude.

    As I have mentioned before, that website is a Shia website, which is nothing wrong but it has completely different beliefs to the sunni beliefs.
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    One does not have to be a mind reader to know if an individual is knowledgable or not. By the way they speak/write about Islam, can speak volumes rather than anything else.

    Sometimes they have no option but to answer you considering that you will bug them for an answer.

    Sources? You want the screenshot of the convo? Course I will do so.
    If you're replying to someone that you've never seen on the forum before then yes, by your ridiculous logic you'd have to know their mind to ask a question.

    Lol, have you gone mad? You think me asking a question will force someone to answer? I know you think highly of me, but don't ascribe that much power to me lmao :rofl:. People have the choice to respond to my quotes, I'm not making them do so :lol:

    So it's just his personal opinion and not based on scripture?

    Strange logic. 😂. No planta, what I am saying is that you can also be a reason to an individual leaving Islam. Yes there are countless of ways however I don't think anyone wants to be responsible for someone else leaving religion because of their dealings.

    Incorrect, I couldn't careless what questions you ask it's the type of questions that's in refutation here dude.

    As I have mentioned before, that website is a Shia website, which is nothing wrong but it has completely different beliefs to the sunni beliefs.
    Once again, don't bother. You're not going to stop me asking challenging and uncomfortable questions, simple. If you don't like them, then you don't need to respond to them.
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    Who's my Ustaadhs? He doesn't let his personal opinions in when answering questions just to let you know. He will give authentic, answers as to the Holy Quraan and the Hadeeth.

    I will, if it takes an individual out of the folds of Islam unnecessarily.

    It's not about preference Planta!. It's about you not realising where such a question could place an individual in the long run.

    So you got your answer from them but when it comes to the individual that was posed the question in the first place they will have to deal with the circumstances. Should they be aware or not.

    *Word salad alert.*
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    (Original post by MiszshorTea786)
    Who's my Ustaadhs? He doesn't let his personal opinions in when answering questions just to let you know. He will give authentic, answers as to the Holy Quraan and the Hadeeth.
    So what are his sources on this specific question?

    I will, if it takes an individual out of the folds of Islam unnecessarily.

    It's not about preference Planta!. It's about you not realising where such a question could place an individual in the long run.

    So you got your answer from them but when it comes to the individual that was posed the question in the first place they will have to deal with the circumstances. Should they be aware or not.

    *Word salad alert.*
    Well you can try all you like, but you won't succeed. I can ask whichever questions I like and there's nothing you can do to stop that.
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    (Original post by starfab)
    It's all about moderation
    So you're fine with Muslims masturbating in moderation?
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    masturbation and any type of sex is considered haram before marriage
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    So you're fine with Muslims masturbating in moderation?
    Moderation in eating- don't starve self, don't eat to a complete full stomach. QE2 pointed out the cycle of eating continues unless you put a stop to it. Ofc that would result in death.
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