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Teenage Muslim Girl and Feminist AMA watch

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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Actually cannot believe the number of men who probably aren't muslims who are trying to argue the principles of Islam to a Muslim woman...
    my thought throughout this whole thread
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    https://youtu.be/ZR9FHKKbMZo
    Here is something that you would like. What do you think about this video?
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    (Original post by Cod3tte)
    Hi,

    Don't worry, I'm not offended by your comment because I'm aware that some people do use their religion as an excuse for homophobic behaviour. I completely disagree with those people.

    Yes, homosexuality, is not allowed in Islam, but that is no excuse for treating someone badly just because they are homosexual. I believe that God gave us freewill and if somebody chooses to be homosexual, that's their choice. Who is anybody to oppress them about that?

    As a Muslim, I fully support LGBTQ rights, I judge people by their personality, not race, gender, religion or sexuality.

    Wow homosexuality is a choice now? Hardly supportive of lgbtq rights if you can’t understand it...
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Wow homosexuality is a choice now? Hardly supportive of lgbtq rights if you can’t understand it...
    I understand some people believe they are born gay or lesbian or bisexual.

    You're missing my point and I apologise if I have offended in anyway shape or form.

    My point is: Anybody has the right to determine their sexuality. Nobody can tell them they are any less of a person because they are so.
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    (Original post by Cod3tte)
    Show me the quotes where that is mentioned and I will give you my opinion on them.
    Quran 4:11 https://quran.com/4/11

    Quran 2:282 https://quran.com/2/282

    Quran 2:228 https://quran.com/2/228
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    Women are most certainly treated worse than men in Islam. Just look at countries like Saudi Arabia that put Sharia law into place - women have way less rights. Here's an article listing some of the things women can't do: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7969551.html

    And if you want some Quran quotes:

    4:11 - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females".
    2:282 - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women".
    2:223 - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." (from an overtly sexual passage).
    4:34 "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them."
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Wow homosexuality is a choice now? Hardly supportive of lgbtq rights if you can’t understand it...
    Well, it is indisputably a choice whether somebody engages in homosexual behaviour or not. If somebody is attracted to people of the same gender, they do not have to act on it, just like a pedophile does not have to act on their attraction to children (not that I am against homosexual behaviour at all, I'm just clarifying the facts).

    As for whether sexual orientation is a "choice" or not, all research indicates that there are a combination of genetic and environmental factors influencing sexual orientation. That said, these environmental factors are not necessarily directly chosen by the person in question, and these environmental factors have a slow impact over time. I would certainly not call sexual orientation a conscious choice, but it is not 100% determined from birth either.

    In countries practising Sharia law, homosexuality is often met with the death penalty.
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    (Original post by Cod3tte)
    Anybody has the right to determine their sexuality.
    Incorrect. Sexuality is akin to having a certain eye colour, you can't change it no matter how hard you try. It is not a choice. If you want to argue this, you can try to be attracted to women and tell us how you fare.

    (Original post by Cod3tte)
    I fully support LGBTQ rights
    You cannot fully support us if you do not understand us.
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    (Original post by orderofthelotus)
    Incorrect. Sexuality is akin to having a certain eye colour, you can't change it no matter how hard you try. It is not a choice. If you want to argue this, you can try to be attracted to women and tell us how you fare.



    You cannot fully support us if you do not understand us.
    Sexual orientation can be influenced over time and it is not determined from birth unlike eye colour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biolog...al_orientation read the "empirical studies" section. Genes definitely have a significant impact on sexual orientation but so does environment (in some cases even more so than genes). What I will agree with is that it's not an immediate conscious choice - you can't just think "I wanted to be attracted to x now" and have it immediately happen, but your sexual orientation is affected by environmental factors over time.
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    (Original post by Aardwolf)
    Sexual orientation can change be influenced over time and it is not determined from birth unlike eye colour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biolog...al_orientation read the "empirical studies" section. Genes definitely have a significant impact on sexual orientation but so does environment (in some cases even more so than genes). What I will agree with is that it's not an immediate conscious choice - you can't just think "I wanted to be attracted to x now" and have it immediately happen, but your sexual orientation is affected by environmental factors over time.
    Ah, bad analogy. The point was that it's not a choice.

    (Original post by Aardwolf)
    it's not an immediate conscious choice - you can't just think "I wanted to be attracted to x now" and have it immediately happen
    I don't think it'd be possible to be conditioned overtime into a certain orientation either, since so many factors are at play. The idea of conditioning someone into a different orientation sounds ethically questionable anyway. Not sure if that's what you were getting at, but yeah.
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    here’s a concept for everyone who can’t fathom how a muslim woman could be a feminist, it’s called ~~intersectional feminism~~ no, her feminism is probably not gonna be the same as mainstream (ie white) feminism. that doesn’t make it wrong tho?

    if anyone’s interested in the intersections between feminism and islam, so long a letter by mariama ba is a veryy good read. she challenges the misconception in the west that muslim women are oppressed by their religion, by showing how it’s their very religion that empowers them in the face of oppression (tho were u to read it, esp if you’re unfamiliar with islam, know to decipher cultural customs from religious customs)
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    (Original post by Aardwolf)
    Women are most certainly treated worse than men in Islam. Just look at countries like Saudi Arabia that put Sharia law into place - women have way less rights. Here's an article listing some of the things women can't do: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7969551.html

    And if you want some Quran quotes:

    4:11 - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females".
    2:282 - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women".
    2:223 - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." (from an overtly sexual passage).
    4:34 "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them."
    hello 👋🏽👋🏽👋🏽👋🏽 i’m a saudi woman. since you seem to know so much about my quality of life i’m delighted to tell you that soon i’ll be able to drive, many guardianship laws have been lifted here and women can now serve in the army.

    no, women’s rights aren’t anywhere near perfect here. especially for lower class women, or women from conservative families (conservative or traditional does not equate to bad tho. what’s with the idea that for one to be progressive they have to be modern and give up their culture???). and i don’t want to minimize their struggle. but there’s a misconception that needs to be cleared. not EVERY saudi woman lives in misery. i’m telling you, some women over here live lives better than the most liberated women in the west (where apparently women have so many rights..). it very much comes down to socioeconomic status and the views of your family.

    i just wanna say that i’m NOT making excuses for my country. if anything, i’m very critical of my country and am always condemning it and working towards its advancement. me condemning my country, and you condemning my country, are two very different things—however. i’m SICK of people in the west speaking OVER us. this is our fight and not yours. not to mention little of you actually care for our interests and are only looking to confirm your orientalist, xenophobic views.
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    (Original post by orderofthelotus)
    Incorrect. Sexuality is akin to having a certain eye colour, you can't change it no matter how hard you try. It is not a choice. If you want to argue this, you can try to be attracted to women and tell us how you fare.
    Do you link the research paper or meta analysis which proves that one's sexuality is purely genetic ?
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    Feminism is the equality between men and women. Islam promotes equality between men and women. There are just too many misconceptions about Islam. Muslim women have many rights.
    The headscarf is not a symbol of oppression. People obviously need to do their research.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tatement-video
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    (Original post by Mil99)
    Do you link the research paper or meta analysis which proves that one's sexuality is purely genetic ?
    (Original post by orderofthelotus)
    Ah, bad analogy. The point was that it's not a choice.

    I don't think it'd be possible to be conditioned overtime into a certain orientation either, since so many factors are at play. The idea of conditioning someone into a different orientation sounds ethically questionable anyway. Not sure if that's what you were getting at, but yeah.
    I didn't say it was, just claimed that it's not a choice.
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    (Original post by Cod3tte)
    It really depends on the situation.

    If a girl is forced to wear it, then yes that is oppression and goes against teachings of Islam.

    If a girl chooses to wear it, the no, it is not oppressing. It is empowering to her.

    But remember, the headscarf is more of a cultural thing, rather than a religious thing.
    hilarious...i suppose the hijab and a really revealing miniskirt is the perfect symbol of female "empowerment" right?
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    (Original post by orderofthelotus)
    I didn't say it was, just claimed that it's not a choice.
    This statement : "Sexuality is akin to having a certain eye colour, you can't change it no matter how hard you try..." would suggest otherwise...

    Anyway, so what else (other than genetics and their own choices/actions) do you know that is involved in the development in someones' sexuality ?
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    (Original post by aaminah03)
    Feminism is the equality between men and women. Islam promotes equality between men and women. There are just too many misconceptions about Islam. Muslim women have many rights.
    The headscarf is not a symbol of oppression. People obviously need to do their research.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tatement-video
    "do their research" goes on to post a link to video from a website that just panders to western feminists who love their muslim-feminism mojo but refuse to demonstrate their "empowerment" in die hard fundamentalist muslim countries.

    nice one
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    (Original post by Mil99)
    This statement : "Sexuality is akin to having a certain eye colour, you can't change it no matter how hard you try..." would suggest otherwise...

    Anyway, so what else (other than genetics and their own choices/actions) do you know that is involved in the development in someones' sexuality ?
    The reason I requoted this:

    (Original post by orderofthelotus)
    Ah, bad analogy. The point was that it's not a choice.

    I don't think it'd be possible to be conditioned overtime into a certain orientation either, since so many factors are at play. The idea of conditioning someone into a different orientation sounds ethically questionable anyway. Not sure if that's what you were getting at, but yeah.

    was because I took back the analogy I used.

    The user I was talking to provided an article which also describes the influence of a "complex interaction between" prenatal hormones, brain structure and environmental factors on sexuality.
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    (Original post by remaal)
    hello 👋🏽👋🏽👋🏽👋🏽 i’m a saudi woman. since you seem to know so much about my quality of life i’m delighted to tell you that soon i’ll be able to drive, many guardianship laws have been lifted here and women can now serve in the army.

    no, women’s rights aren’t anywhere near perfect here. especially for lower class women, or women from conservative families (conservative or traditional does not equate to bad tho. what’s with the idea that for one to be progressive they have to be modern and give up their culture???). and i don’t want to minimize their struggle. but there’s a misconception that needs to be cleared. not EVERY saudi woman lives in misery. i’m telling you, some women over here live lives better than the most liberated women in the west (where apparently women have so many rights..). it very much comes down to socioeconomic status and the views of your family.

    i just wanna say that i’m NOT making excuses for my country. if anything, i’m very critical of my country and am always condemning it and working towards its advancement. me condemning my country, and you condemning my country, are two very different things—however. i’m SICK of people in the west speaking OVER us. this is our fight and not yours. not to mention little of you actually care for our interests and are only looking to confirm your orientalist, xenophobic views.
    I never stated anything about the quality of life of women in Saudi Arabia. All I stated is that women have way less rights in Saudi, something that you openly admit is an issue and that you are fighting against it yourself, so what exactly are you arguing against me over with such a condescending attitude towards me and other westerners? In fact I did not even criticise your laws/culture at all, I just stated facts.
 
 
 
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