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    (Original post by mr T 999)
    Mr Speaker

    We should not be condemning China it will ruin our relations with them. China are the UK's 4th largest importers and 8th largest for exports. I agree with Rakas that they have too much leveraged over us. A Nay from me.
    And the eu beats China in both of those should we also roll over for them?
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    (Original post by CoffeeGeek)
    Can someone tell me what this motion wants to do? Because what it is asking for already exists.
    What a shambles, the prime minister needs to be advised by the chief secretary to the treasury as to the state of diplomatic relations in Taiwan, he is truly out of touch...
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    What a shambles, the prime minister needs to be advised by the chief secretary to the treasury as to the state of diplomatic relations in Taiwan, he is truly out of touch...
    No I'm aware of what's happening in Taiwan - my question was more so what is it asking the government but I can see the underlying message as said by Rakas "piss off China"...

    Out of touch? Says the one who is calling for an embassy in Taiwan when there's already one there...
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    (Original post by Saunders16)
    I am conflicted on this based upon the previous replies. On the one hand, I sympathise with the interests of Taiwan and would easily vote in favour if other matters were not under consideration here. However, we all wish to make trade deals across the world once outside of the EU's protectionism. China is an important and useful ally in that regard. It comes down to a question of whether pragmatism or idealism is better in foreign policy, as offending China could hurt our interests in the coming years. I am leaning towards abstaining unless somebody can convince me I should vote either way.
    You should vote aye because the current attitude of the international community towards Taiwan is morally unjust, China uses its economic power to isolate a harmless island nation from the rest of the world; our country has always stood up and said no to totalitarian powers and their leaders: Napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm, Hitler and Mussolini, we need to take the same stance here.
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    (Original post by CoffeeGeek)
    No I'm aware of what's happening in Taiwan - my question was more so what is it asking the government but I can see the underlying message as said by Rakas "piss off China"...

    Out of touch? Says the one who is calling for an embassy in Taiwan when there's already one there...
    It is not an embassy as per the statement Rakas copy and pasted from the RL Government.

    If you think it is an embassy, get your foreign secretary to make an official statement to that effect and I shall withdraw this motion, until that time, this shall be debated.
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    (Original post by Joep95)
    And the eu beats China in both of those should we also roll over for them?
    No I was merely stating we have a good relations with China atm. Once we leave the EU I want the UK to secure good trade deals with counties all over the world and that inlucdes China. Last thing I want is to give them a reason not to trade with us.
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    (Original post by mr T 999)
    No I was merely stating we have a good relations with China atm. Once we leave the EU I want the UK to secure good trade deals with counties all over the world and that inlucdes China. Last thing I want is to give them a reason not to trade with us.
    So why don’t we roll over for the EU as well, if we give them everything they want we can have a trade deal with them

    Let’s not give them a reason not to trade with us
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    (Original post by Joep95)
    So why don’t we roll over for the EU as well, if we give them everything they want we can have a trade deal with them

    Let’s not give them a reason not to trade with us
    Do you not wish to trade with other countries once we leave the EU?
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    It is not an embassy as per the statement Rakas copy and pasted from the RL Government.

    If you think it is an embassy, get your foreign secretary to make an official statement to that effect and I shall withdraw this motion, until that time, this shall be debated.
    It pretty much acts like an embassy, de facto embassy is probably a better way to describe it.
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    (Original post by mr T 999)
    Do you not wish to trade with other countries once we leave the EU?
    Do you not wish to trade with the eu? If you want to trade we have to cave in to other countries is what you are saying.
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    (Original post by CoffeeGeek)
    It pretty much acts like an embassy, de facto embassy is probably a better way to describe it.
    De facto isn’t good enough, we need to establish formal relations because, at the moment, the present arrangement only provides, to quote Rakas’ statement “limited consular support” to British citizens.
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    (Original post by Joep95)
    Do you not wish to trade with the eu? If you want to trade we have to cave in to other countries is what you are saying.
    I am not saying we have to cave in to other countries to trade with them. What I'm saying is we have not left the EU yet, negotiations are still ongoing, we need to keep our options open for future trade deals. They are a important ally in the comings years.
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    Nay - Do we want to please China or make her angry?
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    (Original post by The PoliticalGuy)
    Nay - Do we want to please China or make her angry?
    Yes, because that’s clearly the only concern here, isn’t it? Let’s just forget the innocent country that is having isolationism forced upon it and do whatever China wants...
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    Yes, because that’s clearly the only concern here, isn’t it? Let’s just forget the innocent country that is having isolationism forced upon it and do whatever China wants...
    And, what will placing an embassy in Taiwan do apart from anger China? The only thing that will make a difference is international sanctions and political intervention which isn't an option.
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    (Original post by The PoliticalGuy)
    And, what will placing an embassy in Taiwan do apart from anger China? The only thing that will make a difference is international sanctions and political intervention which isn't an option.
    It will stimulate the international community to think again on Taiwan (because we have global clout, being a permenant security council member, a member of the G8 etc), which will eventually cause China to have to soften its stance on the issue; simply because wide recognition of Taiwan is just common sense, as shown by the fact that the vast majority of the world maintains “unofficial relations” akin to our “British Office in Taipei”.

    Side note but I do find it slightly amusing that I’m arguing against non-interventionism with someone who has a Tony Blair profile picture
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    It will stimulate the international community to think again on Taiwan (because we have global clout, being a permenant security council member, a member of the G8 etc), which will eventually cause China to have to soften its stance on the issue; simply because wide recognition of Taiwan is just common sense, as shown by the fact that the vast majority of the world maintains “unofficial relations” akin to our “British Office in Taipei”.

    Side note but I do find it slightly amusing that I’m arguing against non-interventionism with someone who has a Tony Blair profile picture
    I highly doubt it we might have high status on paper but in reality we cannot convince any major country to rethink their stance when china are threatening to boycott trade with any country involved with Taiwan. Again I very much doubt it, China will not soften their stance, reality is China could boycott trade with the UK and would feel little or no impact to their economy so it is a win win for them.

    A reformed Tony Blair?
 
 
 
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