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Question for Muslim girls watch

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    (Original post by mariachi)
    I think that Misz is talking about this well known book of hanafi jurisprudence https://www.emaanlibrary.com/book/mu...a-hanafi-fiqh/

    but she is far too busy to engage with us... pity. When someone makes a claim on a public forum, one should bring proof, not simply point to a 180-page book

    best
    Thanks, I know the book, will read it, insha'Allah/God willing.
    Nah online forums don't demand any such instructions tbh, 'tis only online

    Best back.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by mariachi)
    I'm sorry, but the issue of whether marrying a Non-Muslim automatically takes you out of Islam or not is highly topical for the relationship issue being discussed on this thread

    best
    Not it is not. Just accept that it’s not allowed in a Islam. It’s simple just like how other faiths have their rules so does Islam and with reasonings. Please research into it and talk to the knowledgeable one or a scholar who have studied these rulings if you ever want to refute.

    If someone denies the ruling of Allah and tries to and with arrogance considers an impermissible act to be permissible while being aware that the act is impermissible then they can be taken outside the fold of Islam.

    This discussion should end here. Post in ISOC or lear about Islam thread if you want to know about the rulings or go to another thread if you want to debate :yy:
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Not it is not. Just accept that it’s not allowed in a Islam
    this is not at all the point under discussion. We are here trying to ascertain whether a Muslim woman's marriage to e.g. a Christian will automatically take her out of the fold of Islam or not
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    If someone denies the ruling of Allah and tries to and with arrogance considers an impermissible act to be permissible while being aware that the act is impermissible then they can be taken outside the fold of Islam
    .thank you for your interesting opinion - which coincides by the way (at least in part) with the classical 10th nullifier of Islam
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Post in ISOC or lear about Islam thread if you want to know about the rulings or go to another thread if you want to debate :yy:
    sorry, but as I said, this issue is very topical to the questions under examination on this thread and I see no reason why it should not be examined here

    best
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    (Original post by anonymous1231231)
    1) Islam accepts other religions, as people of other religions just like Muslims are trying to find their way to the truth, which Allah cannot punish. We as Muslims are encouraged to marry within the religion, or Jews and christians, but that isn't to say we hate or are intoleratant of other religions.

    2) There's several passages in the Qu'ran about racism, discrimination and about how all cultures are welcomed in Islam.

    3) women don't have to cover themselves. nowhere in the qu'ran does it state to wear a hijab, niqab, etc. Women in islam choose to, to feel liberated. It is a choice. Women are encouraged to respect their bodies, men have no right to to see our outer beauty before our inner.

    4) women are not expected to be homemakers! So many Imams and Prophets wanted the best for women, including their changing roles and education and jobs. Feminism is huge, and if we choose to be homemakers its our choice. its just as valid as choosing to go to university, or work in economics, or law, or anything else.

    5) The qu'ran shows we must listen and respect our parents, but that doesn't mean they can abuse us. I don't even want to defend this, read the story of Muhammad and Fatimah.

    6) Not even going to dignify this with a response.

    7) Sex before marriage is haram yes. I dont understand why this is backwards to be honest...many religions state this is sinful, because procreation was made to have kids, with we believe should occur within a stable and committed relationship. (i dont judge those who do it before marriage, or those who have kids without being married, and i dont think a committed relationship is only a married one, its just more stable legally and financially).

    8) https://yaqeeninstitute.org/en/jonat...-the-solution/

    9) dont know why this is backwards, there's a reason some foods are haram and others are halal.

    10) many secular men do this, this isn't backwards or only Islam-orientated.
    1) Men are allowed to marry Christians and Jews, this is still limiting who you can marry (backwards) and is also sexist (backwards)

    2) Just because the Qu'ran says something doesn't mean that it is typical amongst its followers. My mom married a white man and it was a huge scandal, half her family still won't talk to her 25+ years later. And don't act like this is a rare occurrence, it's very common. Also read the post above about how Muslim men chase after white girls for a bit of fun before settling down with a good little wife from their own race. I grew up in a Muslim family, I know how most men view white women vs women from their own race.

    3) And yet thousands of women all over the world are forced to cover themselves. There's nothing liberating about those clothes, it's oppressive. I have friends who were forced to wear a hijab as they got older. Women are encouraged to respect their bodies but men aren't? More sexism.

    4) There is nothing feminist about Islam, but thanks for that it's given me a good laugh 😂 Muslim women are (sometimes) permitted to go to university (often living at home so their parents can retain control over them) but as soon as they graduate they're married off to someone they barely know and expected to pop out a whole bunch of kids. Even when women are allowed to have a job, they're still expected to do all the child care, housework and have their husband's dinner on the table by the time he gets home from work. With all that to do is it any surprise that they "choose" to be homemakers? They don't exactly have the time to do all that and a job.

    5) Muslim girls have way less freedom than their brothers. Things like not being allowed out without a chaperone, not being allowed to leave home until they're married, not even to go to university. It literally says in the Qu'ran that women must obey their husband's demands, if that's not owning a person then I don't know what is.

    6) Yeah that'd be because you know it's true. It is literally in the Qu'ran as well as saying that women must obey their husband's demands. I saw an interview where women were asked if it's ok for their husbands to beat them and they all said yes. Talk about being brainwashed.

    7) It's backwards because sex is an important part of life. Yes, it is primarily about having kids but it should also be a fun and intimate activity between two people. Stopping people from being able to have a varied sex life is wrong and what I'd you marry someone and it turns out you're sexually incompatible? Now you're stuck in a marriage with an awful sex life. And don't even get me started on how men can sleep around with loads of women and people barely bat an eyelid but if a women did that she'd be shamed beyond belief.

    8) That article was the biggest load of bs I've ever read. Pathetic excuses combined with buzzwords to try and justify why it's not a Muslim problem. This is one of their justifications: "It has been found that, in upper Egypt, Coptic families are as likely as Muslims to commit honor killing". That's disgusting.

    9) Believing that saying a few words over an animal makes it ok to eat is backwards. Not to mention how horrific their death is when killed in a halal way.

    10) In the UK most men get it done for religious reasons. You're cutting a part off a baby's body without their permission, it's wrong. If circumcision is so important it should be done once a person is old enough to consent.
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    (Original post by anonymous1231231)
    Sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean in terms of hair, in the Qu'ran it doesn't explicitly state we have to cover it.
    true. The Quran states that women should draw their "khimaar" on their bosom. Khimaar, at the origin, simply means a "cover". If you consider that the khimaar is a headscarf, by drawing it on your bosom you might uncover your hair.

    In any case, this obligation is more of a status symbol and a religious identity statement than a moral obligation : it applies to free Muslim women only. It is attested that, in the early years of the Caliphate, slave women did not cover their chest in public

    Anyone interested in the Arabic language details of the issue could have a look e.g. here http://quransmessage.com/articles/a%...imar%20FM3.htm

    Best
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    (Original post by Angry Bird)
    I have been here for years answering the same questions again and again it is really tiring for me. Any rational male should know the consequences of marrying inter faith otherwise research should be carried out before jumping to conclusions labelling the religion as sexist when in fact people are just ignorant of the truth
    What consequences do you perceive from inter-faith marriage? And if it is true that a man can retain his Muslim status after marrying a person of a different religion, and a woman can't after doing the same actions as the male, unless there is a satisfiable reason why this is the case - then I believe that rule is sexist.
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    LOOOOOL ' the majority of muslims are from the same part of the world'. What part of the world is that? Asia? Your ignorance is showing. 1/3 of the muslim population reside in Africa. My experiences as a black muslim female will NOT be the same as an Asian muslim female.
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    (Original post by k.n.h.)
    What consequences do you perceive from inter-faith marriage? And if it is true that a man can retain his Muslim status after marrying a person of a different religion, and a woman can't after doing the same actions as the male, unless there is a satisfiable reason why this is the case - then I believe that rule is sexist.
    In the past, the man was the leader within the household and in general. and his words were final, so for a muslim man to marry a non-muslim woman (Jewish or Christian) meant that the children were no doubt going to be muslim as they naturally followed the father. If a woman was to marry a non-muslim in the past, the children would take the fathers religion a he was the leader. It's not even advised for a man to marry a non muslim if there are many other muslim women around anyway. I don't think this rule of a man being able to marry a non-muslim is even admissible in today's society as many (even practising) jewish and christian women don't fully follow their religion i.e modest clothing/head covering etc. In the past their religion was a part of Islam but due to the fact that the Bible (not sure about the Torah) has been changed numerous times means that there isn't a 'believing' (in terms of Islam) woman of Christianity. Also nowadays, when marriages breakdown the mother would have custodial rights of the children meaning that if a non muslim women married a muslim man and they divorced, the child would grow up with the mothers religion and culture.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Do you think it will be hard for you to find someone for marriage? If you haven’t had any proposals yet, does it make you worry?
    How does it work in your family/culture?

    If you are already married, how did it happen?
    No, i don't think it'll be hard for me to find someone to marry. But who' s even thinking about that at 17? anyways I've got so many things I want to achieve before i get married (mid 20s)

    My culture (east african) is quite relaxed with the whole marriage thing which is why its so annoying because everyone assumes that muslims in general are soo obsessed with marriage and whatnot when really its all just culture. Both muslim and non muslim Asian/Arab people tend to get married early (especially the girls) demonstrating that it's CULTURE
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    (Original post by affadz)
    My culture (east african) is quite relaxed with the whole marriage thing which is why its so annoying because everyone assumes that muslims in general are soo obsessed with marriage and whatnot when really its all just culture.
    well, you have e.g. Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 3096
    Narrated by Anas ibn Malik
    Allah’s Messenger (saws) said, “When a man marries he has fulfilled half of the Deen (religion); so let him fear Allah regarding the remaining half.”
    (Original post by affadz)
    Both muslim and non muslim Asian/Arab people tend to get married early (especially the girls) demonstrating that it's CULTURE
    culture and religion usually go hand in hand, and deeply interact and influence each other. In any case, early marriage is widely recommended by Islamic sources and in all regions. A random example :

    "Islam highly recommends an early marriage. Even those who feel they would not be able to bear the expenses of family are urged to repose faith in Allah, as He is the Giver of Sustenance (Rizq), and go for an early marriage"
    https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-mar...-must-we-marry

    And, don't forget that Aishah (a mother of the believers) married at 6 ... personally, I disapprove of early marriage, and especially for young girls, but that of course is not the point

    best
    • #12
    #12

    I'm 18 and I don't really worry or think about it at all tbh, neither do my family as I'm so young. But ngl I do keep an eye out for good muslim guys that I could talk to in the future as the good ones are harder to find lool. My parents expect me to find someone on my own, probably when I start uni but I'm sure if I don't find anyone they will get to know families with sons my age and hope something happens through that.
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    (Original post by affadz)
    In the past, the man was the leader within the household and in general. and his words were final, so for a muslim man to marry a non-muslim woman (Jewish or Christian) meant that the children were no doubt going to be muslim as they naturally followed the father. If a woamn was to marry a non-muslim in the past, the children would take the fathers religion a he was the leader. It's not even advised for a man to marry a non muslim if there are many other muslim women around anyway. I dont think this rule of a man being able to marry a non-muslim is even admissible in today's society as many (even practising) jewish and christian women fully follow their religion. In the past their religion was a part of Islam but due to the fact that the Bible (not sure about the Torah) has been changed numerous times means that there isn't a 'believing' (in terms of Islam) woman of Christianity. Also nowadays, when marriages breakdown the mother would have custodial rights of the children meaning that if a non muslim women married a muslim man and they divorced, the child would grow up with the mothers religion and culture.
    thank you. You have described very well the situation as it prevailed in the past. But, why should religions (including Islam) not take account of the changes that have taken place with regard to the position of women, both within the family and in wider society ?

    best
    • #13
    #13

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Do you think it will be hard for you to find someone for marriage? If you haven’t had any proposals yet, does it make you worry?
    How does it work in your family/culture?

    If you are already married, how did it happen?
    It works differently for each cultures. For example my family would probably arrange marriage my brothers but it’s their choice they can say no and find their own spouse. My sister is engaged to the love of her life that she found on her own. My parents know that I ain’t getting arranged lol and they don’t care as long as we keep it Halal and in the culture 🙄.
    Anyways finding someone is hard in general.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    My sister is engaged to the love of her life that she found on her own. My parents know that I ain’t getting arranged lol and they don’t care as long as we keep it Halal and in the culture 🙄.
    Anyways finding someone is hard in general.
    Don't you find it a bit sad that in many groups there is this strong preference for keeping everything within the clan/tribe/ethnicity/religion etc ?

    in my opinion, it's way more healthy if people mix and mingle : yes, problems can arise because of different outlook on life, but in the long run I think that it would be better : it would open up minds and bring different communities together, instead of isolating them

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    I think you would be surprised that many Muslim girls date normally to find themselves a boyfriend / husband.
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    (Original post by Emily_bishh09)
    I think you would be surprised that many Muslim girls date normally to find themselves a boyfriend / husband.
    Yes, I've noticed it. Online preachers and firebrands are furious about this (but some of them have been discovered on dating sites...)

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    (Original post by mariachi)
    well, you have e.g. Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 3096
    Narrated by Anas ibn Malik
    Allah’s Messenger (saws) said, “When a man marries he has fulfilled half of the Deen (religion); so let him fear Allah regarding the remaining half.” culture and religion usually go hand in hand, and deeply interact and influence each other. In any case, early marriage is widely recommended by Islamic sources and in all regions. A random example :

    "Islam highly recommends an early marriage. Even those who feel they would not be able to bear the expenses of family are urged to repose faith in Allah, as He is the Giver of Sustenance (Rizq), and go for an early marriage"
    https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-mar...-must-we-marry

    And, don't forget that Aishah (a mother of the believers) married at 6 ... personally, I disapprove of early marriage, and especially for young girls, but that of course is not the point

    best
    I fully think that marriages shouldn't be delayed as it'll only lead to haram (forbidden) actions. But at the same time I'm not going to act as if many young girls from certain demographics aren't being coerced into marrying young (instead of focusing on their education and careers so they can lead successful lives) for several factors such as it looking bad on the family, not going to be deemed as attractive by other men when they get older etc etc. This is against Islam as there's nothing wrong with getting married later. The prophet (pbuh) married Khadija who was older than him and was 40 years old at the time.

    lol Aisha was 6 when she was engaged to the prophet but they didn't marry until she was 9 years old. A 9 year old back then was not the same as a 9 year old today lets be honest, they simply weren't socialised the way we have been today.

    Also, I find it funny how many Islamophobic people (not you) always bring this up when in Britain as well as France it was also the norm. John de la Pole was married at 7 in 1453 by the arrangement of John's father.

    Likewise , I'm against any child that's getting married that young today.
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    (Original post by affadz)
    Aisha was 6 when she was engaged to the prophet but they didn't marry until she was 9 years old.
    well, you have e.g. the Sahih Bukhari 
 Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

    Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

    You could check also Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:58:234, 5:58:236, 7:62:64, 7:62:65, 7:62:88, Sahih Muslim, 8:3309, 8:3310, 8:3311, 41:4915, Sunan Abu Dawood, 41:4917
    (Original post by affadz)
    Also, I find it funny how many Islamophobic people (not you) always bring this up when in Britain as well as France it was also the norm. John de la Pole was married at 7 in 1453 by the arrangement of John's father.
    yes, people in those days were married off very young, and especially among royalty and nobility

    (Original post by affadz)
    Likewise , I'm against any child that's getting married that young today.
    I agree. The problem is that some Muslims take the example of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as a model, which should be allowed even in our days

    best
 
 
 
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