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    Is war human nature? What is your opinion? What evidence do you have to support war is human nature and a part of evolution or not?
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    Conflict perhaps is, but I don't believe war to be - even if by our nature we are prone to conflicts, and disagreements, I don't think that's the same as being a part of our nature to act on them in a certain way.
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    War and violence in general simply stem from the basic failed system of life which is that humans lack the basic resources to survive.

    If mankind were not pre-programmed with an inherent instinct to survive then things would be different. Those without, would simply lay down and die.

    As it is, we do have an instinct to survive, we fear death, we fear the unknown.

    That instinct combined with the fact that resources are not free and unlimited, create conflict and violence.

    Imagine for a moment a world in which humans do not need to eat or drink to gain the energy their bodies need. Imagine a world in which humans did not feel the effects of extreme heat or cold and cuold happily survive exposed to either.

    How would you live?

    You most certainly would not need to go to work to earn money because you don't need food or drink any more. You can simply exist, just "be" without the need for any external thing.

    We would spend our lives in freedom, interacting with one another, playing, laughing, in harmony with the Earth and everything in it. Perhaps just like the allegorical way in which the Bible relates Adam and Eve.

    It is the fact that humans do NOT have access to that which would create the above conditions, that leads to the need to survive and exercise violence or force of strength.

    The basic NEED generates and results in the use of force to acquire and satisfy the need.

    Take away the need, and the world is a different place. Humans are free to be just humans. To live, love and prosper.

    But the need sadly persists. The few have the key, the very thing that creates that utopia and they keep it for themselves, jealously guarding it lest others also find it and assume the same level of power.

    The rest of us are kept in slavery, in ignorance, and are given short lifespans in which we are subjected to numerous illnesses and diseases. All designed to keep us down, to keep us at bay.

    War and violence are NOT human nature. We are by nature, loving and caring and peaceful.

    The control of the most important life resource and the removal of it from the majority of the populous, is what creates the situation of need, the need for resources and thus the need to fight for those resources.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    War and violence in general simply stem from the basic failed system of life which is that humans lack the basic resources to survive.

    If mankind were not pre-programmed with an inherent instinct to survive then things would be different. Those without, would simply lay down and die.

    As it is, we do have an instinct to survive, we fear death, we fear the unknown.

    That instinct combined with the fact that resources are not free and unlimited, create conflict and violence.

    Imagine for a moment a world in which humans do not need to eat or drink to gain the energy their bodies need. Imagine a world in which humans did not feel the effects of extreme heat or cold and cuold happily survive exposed to either.

    How would you live?

    You most certainly would not need to go to work to earn money because you don't need food or drink any more. You can simply exist, just "be" without the need for any external thing.

    We would spend our lives in freedom, interacting with one another, playing, laughing, in harmony with the Earth and everything in it. Perhaps just like the allegorical way in which the Bible relates Adam and Eve.

    It is the fact that humans do NOT have access to that which would create the above conditions, that leads to the need to survive and exercise violence or force of strength.

    The basic NEED generates and results in the use of force to acquire and satisfy the need.

    Take away the need, and the world is a different place. Humans are free to be just humans. To live, love and prosper.

    But the need sadly persists. The few have the key, the very thing that creates that utopia and they keep it for themselves, jealously guarding it lest others also find it and assume the same level of power.

    The rest of us are kept in slavery, in ignorance, and are given short lifespans in which we are subjected to numerous illnesses and diseases. All designed to keep us down, to keep us at bay.

    War and violence are NOT human nature. We are by nature, loving and caring and peaceful.

    The control of the most important life resource and the removal of it from the majority of the populous, is what creates the situation of need, the need for resources and thus the need to fight for those resources.
    I find this saccharine at worst and overly naive at best, if wars are only based on resources explain the cold war! we as a species were producing more than we required already and yet we almost annihilated each other.

    Look at this thread right now, we're both western people, likely with enough material wealth to live in relative comfort and without a huge abundance of suffering, in short we don't need to have conflict over scarce resources, and yet we have a conflict of opinion or word view and these can and do escalate into conflict of ideology like the cold war.

    It's interesting you mention the bible because the first story after being cast out of paradise is Cain and Able, one brother killing the other not for resources but basically status envy, since we can never all have complete equity - outside of Utopian vision as you describe in your comment(look up utopia) - there will always be conflict.

    An argument for why there will always be conflict which when people group together in tribes or nation states is easily found in evolution - the dominant group breeds and survives. That mindset may not make logical sense when competing over something as incorporeal as ideology but we have an awful lot of hang ups in physiology and psychology that aren't well adapted to modern times.
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    (Original post by Be981)
    Is war human nature? What is your opinion? What evidence do you have to support war is human nature and a part of evolution or not?
    Well, I think it is less about evolution than about the choices of an individual. Not everyone is violently geared. Some people are actually pacifists.

    It is up to the individual, not the human race, to determine whether to initiate violent action.
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    It's not a question of 'human nature' as such. There's no evidence for example that we are born or as children have some kind of innate 'warlike' quality. Not even boys. :teehee:

    Wars are a product of organised societies competing for resources, status or both. There is abundant evidence from ancient history and the study of prehistoric cultures that wars tended to grow in number and ferocity over time, as people organised into tribal groups that held territories they could define, then cities that fought with other cities, then whole states that tried to dominate others, using systems such as slavery and the taxation of foreigners to oppress them and seize from them. This pattern of warlike city states eventually developing into warlike empires can be found in almost all parts of the world.

    People probably accepted this awful behaviour because more benefited from it than lost and because the dominant societies retained their dominance. In addition, once a militaristic empire or city had achieved total power, a sort of pseudo-peace could operate for longish periods, enabling many social benefits, as for example in the Roman and Chinese empires.

    The urge to war that continues to operate now is a legacy of those earlier struggles and has no useful benefits to us now, but is purely exploitative on the part of certain wealthy minorities who (for example) control weapons production, or benefit from the capture of other people's resources. In all modern countries, war production and preparations for war are purely designed to increase the profits of these small groups.
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    Conflict between rival groups of humans is. But once we developed agriculture and what comes with it the conflicts get bigger and bloodier. Once you get division of labour and collection of resources in the hands of an elite you can start to have poeple who can devote all thier time to being soldiers. Then the concentration of resources and leadership with an elite class means you starty to have bloodier conflicts.

    This is what a hunter gatherer war looks like. It's basically a form of potentially lethal sport that is how conflict between different groups is managed (plus I imagione it serves a good social function) where the aim is for one side to get a revenge kill against the other to even out the mortality inflciting on each side. Neither side can afford an all out blood bath and it's almost treated like a pass time...



    Now compare that to the somme, the outcome of what we call advanced civilisation.
 
 
 

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