Turn on thread page Beta

Labour is inching towards dealing May a devastating blow over Brexit watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    An interesting piece I came across in the NS today.
    Thoughts?


    There’s what happened at the government's Brexit away day at Chequers last week and there’s what’s happening in the real world. The two appear to be very different.
    In a well-briefed, high-detail take in today’s Sunday Times Tim Shipman paints a picture of a usually fractious cabinet that managed to come together in agreement at the PM’s country residence about the way forward on Brexit.
    Each faction seems to have managed to throw its weight behind a plan produced on the day by Oliver Robbins, Britain’s chief negotiator. It states that the UK will:
    ● Demand mutual recognition of standards for goods traded between the UK and the EU.
    ● Make a public commitment that British standards will remain as high as those of the EU.
    ● Pledge to keep rules and regulations “substantially similar”.
    ● Insist upon the creation of a dispute mechanism to oversee areas where the UK wants to diverge from EU regulations — and that the European Court of Justice would have no role in it.
    Both Boris Johnson and Philip Hammond, perhaps the two ministers furthest apart on Brexit, said they were able to support the proposals. This led one of their colleagues to joke that ‘if you both agree with it, there must be something wrong.’
    The truth is, that’s no joke – there is something wrong. The bonhomie felt at Chequers wasn’t the emotion of a group of people realising they actually agreed with one another. It was driven by relief that an embarrassing barney, or a resignation, or even a fistfight, had been avoided. The idea that Hammond and Johnson are now on the same page, or can be kept on one in the months ahead, is for the birds.
    Meanwhile, the real world keeps stubbornly intervening. Labour moderates have quietly been working away at Jeremy Corbyn to persuade him to support the idea of Britain remaining in a customs union. The Labour leader and his acolytes may be at ease with Brexit – and for very different reasons to Tory Leavers – but they have recently begun to show a willingness to play the ideological soft-shoe shuffle, bending their dogma for the sake of political ends. And with the Conservatives – especially on the backbenches – still heavily divided over our future relationship with the EU, they scent that a major victory, and a humiliation for the Government, could be on the cards.
    Keir Starmer took to the Marr show today to make clear that Labour’s position, though still frustratingly vague, is shifting towards audacity. The Shadow Brexit Secretary suggested that Labour could support Tory MP Anna Soubry's customs union amendment, which would almost certainly give it a majority.
    “Crunch time is coming for the Prime Minister. The majority in parliament needs to be heard and it will be heard sooner or later,” said Starmer.
    Something must break, sooner or later. The scale of the challenge and the tenor of the times demand it. It remains unthinkable that a final deal can be reached that manages to keep Johnson and his like-minded divergers on board with the sizeable number of Tory backbenchers who grow ever more publicly rebellious and outspoken.
    On The Wright Stuff last week, former culture minister Ed Vaizey let loose in dramatic fashion. The idea Brexit would be good for trade was “complete nonsense” and “fantasy land”, he said. “The idea we’re going to strike any new deals in the next few years is rubbish and [the idea] any of these free-trade deals are going to compensate for making it more difficult to trade with Ireland or France or Germany is also rubbish.”
    Asked whether his remarks would get him into trouble with the party leadership, Vaizey was dismissive. “Discipline has completely broken down in the parliamentary party so no one tells anyone off because there’s no power anywhere. It’s an atomised parliament.”
    Vaizey may no longer be a minister or at the heart of Tory power politics, but he undoubtedly speaks for those MPs growing ever more frustrated at the Johnson/Rees-Mogg attempts to drag the government towards a hard Brexit. The two positions cannot be reconciled, the personal relations that might smooth things over no longer exist, and the Conservative rebels have no compunction about voting with their principles rather than their party.
    It should now be relatively easy for Labour to peel these rebels away from the government when it comes to some key votes. Labour’s parliamentary party - if not its leadership – remains overwhelmingly Europhile. If Corbyn can be persuaded or even forced to play hard politics on Brexit, he could bring down Theresa May, leave a gaping wound in the Tory party, and make his Labour a more palatable option for remainers and soft Brexiters across the country
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ng-blow-brexit
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Anyone who doesn't think that Europe isn't the most divisive issue in British politics for the last 60 years needs their head examined. We've been trying to tread a middle ground for decades - unsuccessfully. Everything about Europe makes everyone crazy - as crazy as the people in the EU.

    Look at the insane situation we now have - a pro-EU Tory PM implementing Brexit, whilst being opposed by an anti-EU hard-left Labour Leader who is trying to preserve some part of EU membership - the parts that he most fundamentally and philosophically opposes.

    I'm struggling to think of another issue ever that was so divisive, fractious and damaging to Britain. Things like the Poll Tax were easily settled by compromise. No-one really cares too much about voting reform, the monarchy or Trident. I know of no-one that becomes aggressive or belligerent about pretty much any other topic. The level of anger and hatred that the EU stirs up is unmatched.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    The Tories are utterly incompetent, led by the least among them...but are still basically level Pegging with labour. Because as useless as May is people know that she is relatively harmless.

    The Tories have got three years to improve things and find a new leader.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    The Tories are utterly incompetent, led by the least among them...but are still basically level Pegging with labour. Because as useless as May is people know that she is relatively harmless.

    The Tories have got three years to improve things and find a new leader.
    That is the problem right there! Who will be the new leader that the tories will elect to takeover the party.
    Boris? Well he is a good candidate but I don't see him being a leader of a party and being the face of the post brexit Britain. He is a clown and he did a good
    job as being mayor but I don't believe he is ready for the step up to pm imo.
    Another maybe is Hammond. I like him he has a good manner and his statements have been ok thus far, as chancellor he is doing a good job (just maybe even better than Osbourne) he is a good contender.
    Then there's others such as Davis, Gove etc.
    From what I'm seeing currently May will be leader into the next general election.
    Currently just focus on getting the brexit deal first...
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    Labour is inching towards dealing May a devastating blow over Brexit

    Just laughable really.

    All Labour is doing is analysing which part of the electorate will gain it the most votes and give it the best chance of winning an election. Turned out to be the Remainers and so good old duplicitous Jezbollah Corbyn has put up the white flag and capitulated on BrExit in order to try and garner votes.

    The man is so shallow and shameless it's unbelievable.

    Did people learn nothing from his disgusting duping of the young electorate on student fees/debts?

    The man will say and do absolutely anything to try and get votes, he just doesn't care.

    Obstructing BrExit is 100% anti-democratic. Any way you cut it that's what Looney Labour under Jezbollah Corbyn are now doing. Undermining democracy. We voted to get out of the EU in totality.
    The Marxist Corbyn is simply trying to appeal to Remainers for votes.

    A similar thing happened at the last election. He got the support of many Remainers because they voted tactically to try and scupper BrExit rather than actually supporting Labour policies.

    But even with the help of tactical voting Remainers and
    even with the help of a duped young electorate and
    even with the help of the Tories having an abysmal election campaign,

    Jezbollah Corbyn and his militant thugs Momentum still lost that election and lost it by a considerable margin. They achieved only 4 more seats than they did 7 years ago in the 2010 election.

    Seems they learned absolutely nothing from that past period.

    Why real Labour supporters still give Corbyn the time of day is beyond me. He is going to see Labour lose elections over and over until he is ousted and they put up someone credible in his place.

    Labour's position on BrExit is shallow and transparent and the world sees it. They've dilly dallied for months without making a proper stance simply because they wanted to play both sides, get as much support as possible from both sides, duping as many as possible, giving them the false hope of a second referendum and the like.

    People should see this ultra left wing Marxist party for what it is. A threat to freedom and democracy, a militant bunch who would walk over established process and rule as a totalitarian regime.

    They can not be trusted. Nothing they say can be trusted.

    They haven't the slightest clue what things cost, or how to run a country.

    They are unfit to govern and Corbyn remains wholly unelectable.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    LOL. I am no Tory voter, but Labour and Conrad Corbyn aren't capable of issuing a devastating blow to anything. Labour are a complete laughing stock. If their history hasn't already proven they are un-electable, there leader certainly has.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    The Tories are utterly incompetent, led by the least among them...but are still basically level Pegging with labour. Because as useless as May is people know that she is relatively harmless.
    That and the Tories play politics in easy mode.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    That and the Tories play politics in easy mode.
    Mmm not so sure. In what way?

    Labour have lots of advantages eg a huge number of public sector workers, immigrants and students.

    I’d say labour have lost recently in spite of their popularity (by having useless/ divisive leaders- and bizzare/ gimmicky/ divisive policies)
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    Mmm not so sure. In what way?

    Labour have lots of advantages eg a huge number of public sector workers, immigrants and students.

    I’d say labour have lost recently in spite of their popularity (by having useless/ divisive leaders- and bizzare/ gimmicky/ divisive policies)
    I think the fact the Tories are level pegging is to do with the fact that the elderly population is massively pro-Tory, they are big in number and have a huge turnout.

    Though, demographics do seem to be going in Labour's direction. Labour is always going to do well with younger votes, but they have never dominated among the under 40s to they extent that the are doing now, surely.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    The Tories are utterly incompetent, led by the least among them...but are still basically level Pegging with labour. Because as useless as May is people know that she is relatively harmless.

    The Tories have got three years to improve things and find a new leader.
    She did bring about the snoopers charter and that draconian porn bill - she isn't that harmless...
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Napp)
    She did bring about the snoopers charter and that draconian porn bill - she isn't that harmless...
    Yep, now no one can watch porn anymore 😂

    (I’m fine with this)
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    22
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    Yep, now no one can watch porn anymore 😂

    (I’m fine with this)
    And what about TPB et al. My right to pirate movies and watch two blonde co-eds with a beach ball doing unspeakable things must not be infringed! :fuhrer:
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    I think it is possible that enough Labour MPs will not support Jeremy Corbyn on this one such that the blow will not be delivered.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Napp)
    An interesting piece I came across in the NS today.
    Thoughts?

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ng-blow-brexit
    Corbyn was smart to make his speech before May and smarter still to hold out ambiguity for as long as he did (by backing the customs union but not single market he's also backing the least offensive bit to non-Tories, also a smart choice).

    However.. the article is at best optimistic. The customs and trade bill failing will be a de facto vote of no confidence in the government and even Soubry will not vote to bring the government down (or rather, to force May into calling another election to get it through).

    With that said, i'm not actually opposed to an election (i think the people who think Corbyn will win because of the last campaign are naive) although it will be much better for us if that can occur post-March 29th 2019.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Corbyn was smart to make his speech before May and smarter still to hold out ambiguity for as long as he did (by backing the customs union but not single market he's also backing the least offensive bit to non-Tories, also a smart choice).

    However.. the article is at best optimistic. The customs and trade bill failing will be a de facto vote of no confidence in the government and even Soubry will not vote to bring the government down (or rather, to force May into calling another election to get it through).

    With that said, i'm not actually opposed to an election (i think the people who think Corbyn will win because of the last campaign are naive) although it will be much better for us if that can occur post-March 29th 2019.
    I think you're being rather complacent. I'm not saying Corbyn will win or that he won't win. But you keep making out like last time was just a blip and the British people 'will come to their senses'. A bit like those who assured us that the Tories would romp home to a huge majority last time...

    Politics across the globe is unpredictable and no one knows what will happen. There's every chance Labour will win the next election, there's every chance the Tories will too.

    I still think the Tories have no idea how to tackle Corbyn mind. They were so sure for so long that he would lead Labour to a 1997 style defeat that they are clueless about what to do now that he has a realistic chance of becoming Prime Minister.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    I would support any brexit outcome that
    a) Stops Free movement of Labour
    b) Allows the UK to sign free trade deals with other countries, with out involving 27 set of other parliaments

    I dont care how long the transition is or is we have to continue to pay into the budget or if certain sectors are still subject to ECJ.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DeBruyne18)
    I think you're being rather complacent. I'm not saying Corbyn will win or that he won't win. But you keep making out like last time was just a blip and the British people 'will come to their senses'. A bit like those who assured us that the Tories would romp home to a huge majority last time...

    Politics across the globe is unpredictable and no one knows what will happen. There's every chance Labour will win the next election, there's every chance the Tories will too.

    I still think the Tories have no idea how to tackle Corbyn mind. They were so sure for so long that he would lead Labour to a 1997 style defeat that they are clueless about what to do now that he has a realistic chance of becoming Prime Minister.
    Not so. I do think things are on a knifeedge, i just don't think fear should dictate our actions.

    Ultimately i am an opportunistic who believes in intelligent risk. If parliament can grant us an opportunity then we should take it.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: February 28, 2018
Poll
Do protests make a difference in political decisions?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.