Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Free speech watch

Announcements
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    How is it an insult? I'm sorry, but if a woman decided to be a man and then decided to be a woman I don't feel insulted. It doesn't impact me one bit. In fact, it is absolutely none of my business. And why are you (obviously a man) concerned about how women feel? Can they not speak for themselves?

    Blimey - were you born in 1850 and transported to modern Britain? Do you feel that women need to be protected by you?
    They can and do, follow the debate and keep up. Are you saying I get to have no opinion on the matter? Why?

    And of course you wouldn't feel insulted exactly because it doesn't impact you! What ignorance. Women have been fighting for centuries for equality. The first female toilet in London was burned down by men. Now, men don't need to burn them down, they can just invade them by saying "I'm a woman". Women's oppression which is very much sex based is completely overrun by these men. If "woman" has no objective criteria or meaning, then it's a meaningless term. There can be no "women's rights" if "women" is not defined.

    Btw, you fit the exact stereotype of lefty woke brocialist. Look it up.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    They can and do, follow the debate and keep up. Are you saying I get to have no opinion on the matter? Why?

    And of course you wouldn't feel insulted exactly because it doesn't impact you! What ignorance. Women have been fighting for centuries for equality. The first female toilet in London was burned down by men. Now, men don't need to burn them down, they can just invade them by saying "I'm a woman". Women's oppression which is very much sex based is completely overrun by these men. If "woman" has no objective criteria or meaning, then it's a meaningless term. There can be no "women's rights" if "women" is not defined.

    Btw, you fit the exact stereotype of lefty woke brocialist. Look it up.
    Yep - I probably am a leftist person. You are well entitled to an opinion. I am simply challenging that opinion. It is interesting that you keep diverting the argument away from what it is actually about and now your concern is for women. I don't think women have a problem with trans men. Why? Because like gay men, they don't pose a threat. If you go to a gay bar, you will find it full of straight women because they don't get hit on and can just enjoy themselves. Same too with trans man.

    I am interested to know why you only seem concerned about trans men and not trans women?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Yep - I probably am a leftist person. You are well entitled to an opinion. I am simply challenging that opinion. It is interesting that you keep diverting the argument away from what it is actually about and now your concern is for women. I don't think women have a problem with trans men. Why? Because like gay men, they don't pose a threat. If you go to a gay bar, you will find it full of straight women because they don't get hit on and can just enjoy themselves. Same too with trans man.

    I am interested to know why you only seem concerned about trans men and not trans women?
    Um I am concerned about trans women, not trans men. Do you know so little about this topic that you don't even know the proper terminology?

    And I divert? You are the one diverting...I make a point and you load your reply questioning why I even have an opinion (which it shouldn't matter anyway, who I am is wholly irrelevant to the argument I am presenting).

    Dirty tactics that are used on social media all the time now, both by the right and the left. Accuse the other side of the things you are doing (wrong) yourself.

    E.g. you have not actually engaged with almost anything in my post. My entire argument you ignored, and focused on my reply to your previous distraction argument, "why do you have an opinion", while the rest of your post is completely irrelevant to the previous conversation.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    Um I am concerned about trans women,
    Ah - so you are concerned about people like my father who is a trans woman. Why so? She is just fine and able to speak for herself. But you are right - I know nothing about it. Having had extensive training about issues faced by trans people trying to live in our society has only made me more ignorant too.

    I wonder if your concern is actually to do with the fact that trans women are effectively challenging your own view on what masculinity is? That is why you find the idea of a trans woman so unappealing? After all, like you say - you don't have a problem with trans men. Why is that?

    The bottom line is that trans people don't have a problem. You do. You have a problem with them. But that is your problem and one you are going to have to deal with. They aren't going to magically disappear because you don't like the way they are. And thankfully for them, the law is also on their side.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by k.n.h.)
    Of course I've experienced discrimination before.. :sigh: I just don't agree that using the 'wrong' pronoun deserves a fine or arrest, it's even less minuscule than most of the issues the word 'discrimination' connotes.. (Just to add, if the law were true, this could easily be abused by people claiming a different pronoun of themselves, anyone could do this, and frankly going to court for that would be a waste of time.)
    I remember in the past when people were bullied they were trying to change it by becoming stronger, smarter or something. Now you just punish bullies and left yourself in the same pathetic state. No wonder there are a lot of sheltered people who refuse to change.
    Online

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chucke1992)
    I remember in the past when people were bullied they were trying to change it by becoming stronger, smarter or something. Now you just punish bullies and left yourself in the same pathetic state. No wonder there are a lot of sheltered people who refuse to change.
    ?? What point are you conveying exactly? :curious:
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Ah - so you are concerned about people like my father who is a trans woman. Why so? She is just fine and able to speak for herself. But you are right - I know nothing about it. Having had extensive training about issues faced by trans people trying to live in our society has only made me more ignorant too.

    I wonder if your concern is actually to do with the fact that trans women are effectively challenging your own view on what masculinity is? That is why you find the idea of a trans woman so unappealing? After all, like you say - you don't have a problem with trans men. Why is that?

    The bottom line is that trans people don't have a problem. You do. You have a problem with them. But that is your problem and one you are going to have to deal with. They aren't going to magically disappear because you don't like the way they are. And thankfully for them, the law is also on their side.
    Not concerned for, about.

    And that's ironic, I am exactly arguing for society to accept men in dresses. Rather than calling someone who likes make up, dresses, and heels necessarily a "woman". Do you not notice how you get pretty much everything about me and what I am arguing, wrong? I wonder why that is.

    I have a problem with trans women, because they force their way into female spaces where they don't belong.

    The bottom line is, trans people ARE the people with the problem - they need society to validate them and they are trying to force their way into spaces where they don't belong. And not for long, more and more people are waking up to this regressive left politics. And once all those kids put chemicals and mutilated grow up and want to detransition, there will be even more backlash.

    ps you also still haven't addressed or even acknowledged a single point I have made. So as I said, stay in your bubble, you're bias is nauseating.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by k.n.h.)
    ?? What point are you conveying exactly? :curious:
    Who knows
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    Not concerned for, about.

    And that's ironic, I am exactly arguing for society to accept men in dresses. Rather than calling someone who likes make up, dresses, and heels necessarily a "woman". Do you not notice how you get pretty much everything about me and what I am arguing, wrong? I wonder why that is.

    I have a problem with trans women, because they force their way into female spaces where they don't belong.
    No they don't. As individuals, we can choose our pronoun. The law also states we can use the toilet we choose. In fact, there is no law that states men have to use male toilets and visa versa. But here you go again - your concern for these poor defenceless women. Who are these women who are so concerned about trans women using their toilets and why have they chosen you ask their spokesman?

    Which points would you like me to address?
    Online

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chucke1992)
    Who knows
    Lol
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Sorry - I don't understand. What is subjective? We are talking about calling someone he or she. Now in the first instance, you might have to make a guess and if you are corrected then you know exactly where you stand. So you just do that. Now if you want to be really proactive, you ask which pronoun to use. It is no big deal. It is just common courtesy.

    Could you tell me where it is difficult to be consistent?
    I wasn't talking about pronouns. I was talking about hate speech. If we are going to forbid it I am saying it is difficult because what constitutes hate speech is mostly subjective. There is also an issue with society not being consistent about it in terms my examples of the Bible and Qur'an.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Iridocyclitis)
    I wasn't talking about pronouns. I was talking about hate speech. If we are going to forbid it I am saying it is difficult because what constitutes hate speech is mostly subjective. There is also an issue with society not being consistent about it in terms my examples of the Bible and Qur'an.
    Agreed to a point but not about the Bible etc. If someone verbally abuses you in the street that is a hate crime. The Bible is just a story that contains violence. There is no real victim in the Bible.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Agreed to a point but not about the Bible etc. If someone verbally abuses you in the street that is a hate crime. The Bible is just a story that contains violence. There is no real victim in the Bible.
    What's the difference between someone handing out a Bible with a bookmark in it with a passage from Leviticus highlighted ('if male lies with male... put them to death', etc.) and someone handing out a leaflet that is hateful of gay people?
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Iridocyclitis)
    What's the difference between someone handing out a Bible with a bookmark in it with a passage from Leviticus highlighted ('if male lies with male... put them to death', etc.) and someone handing out a leaflet that is hateful of gay people?
    A fair point. I suppose the only difference is that the Bible has been around for some time and ironically, most Christians in this country bizarrely choose to mix and match the bits of the Bible they believe in. But since the Bible doesn't really deal with homosexuality or gender I think it fair to say your two scenarios aren't in the same genre.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    https://twitter.com/PeachesJenkins3/...38636231839744

    Yup, self ID will allow all of those to go into women's changing rooms and showers.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by HighPlaces)
    Hey all. I'm worried about increased stifling of free speech in uni with the 'no platform' policies introduced. What do you think?
    My other half is always moaning about something political to me yet never says anything to anyone else about it as she doesn’t want to offend or lose friends over it.

    I always reply to her well you are the problem then!

    People have always had stupid ideas and behaviours and it is the use of free speech that allows these things to be discussed and for those behaviours and ideas to be modified.

    No carrying out your free speech is making the human race regress
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.