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    (Original post by Kyber Ninja)
    Indirectly I imagine, and with a cap? Isn't it based on the student's grades? Similar to complete university guide with entry standards?
    That's what I'm referring to. And CUG (and the others) doesn't use entry standards, they use the tariff points achieved by accepted students. These include all qualifications, even if they aren't part of an offer requirement. e.g The AS / EPQ grades plus Music or whatever other qualifications.

    But hiking up the entry requirements will also drive up the overall tariff points held by students.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Edinburgh was accepting BBBBB (for engineering) as recently as 2008. Supply and demand and "contextual" factors also come into play, too.

    I think what might have happened is that at select universities - and at many of these, some select courses - might have simply pulled away from the rest in terms of admissions requirements due to much more intense competition. We're seeing (or hearing) of some universities really having to try to compete for students (e.g. unconditional if firmed offers) whereas others are able to continually increase their entrance requirements.
    Ngl, I don't know how comparable this is, because Scottish unis seem to ask more for A Level and English unis ask more for AH.

    Like I've seen some Oxbridge and Imperial courses that ask for AAA (that's A*A*A* right)?
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    I started my course in biochemistry in 1985, the entry requirements were BCC, now its ABB or AAA depending on the A levels studied at the same university. Other universities like Newcastle and Lancaster were asking for CCC in 1985.

    I did hear one girl who got into medicine with BBB at Manchester but most of the medics I knew had AAA.
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    (Original post by Kyber Ninja)
    Ngl, I don't know how comparable this is, because Scottish unis seem to ask more for A Level and English unis ask more for AH.

    Like I've seen some Oxbridge and Imperial courses that ask for AAA (that's A*A*A* right)?
    It's difficult to compare A-levels with highers. AAA at AH is equivalent to A*A*A* on the basis that one cannot go higher than an A at AH and an A* at A-level. AH is meant to be roughly equivalent to a full A-level, although I would imagine A-levels are more in depth as Scottish students typically study more highers, in a wider range of subjects, then A-level ones do. Highers might be more similar to the IB than A-levels in this regard.

    It's also worth noting that a lot of Scottish schools do not (or did not when I was still in school) have particularly good provision for AHs. This was likely because Scottish degrees are designed to begin from where highers finish, making AHs somewhat superfluous unless you wanted to go straight into second year (AHs are roughly equal to first year at Scottish universities) or an English university. In terms of grades, I do recall seeing statistics that something like 3-4 times as many A-level students achieved AAA (this was before the A* was introduced) than higher students achieved AAAAA. This wasn't always particularly well understood south of the border, as I remember seeing situations where mid-level English universities were asking for the same AH grades as Cambridge (who were probably much more aware of the Scottish education system).

    I'm not particularly clued up on how the funding system works at Scottish universities, but my understanding is that is funding is provided for a number of places for Scottish students, and that there is separate funding for rUK places, meaning that they are not competing for places. Therefore, some Scottish universities that are not particularly popular with A-level applicants have entry requirements which are probably less difficult to achieve than for a applicant with highers - and possibly the vice versa too.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    It's difficult to compare A-levels with highers. AAA at AH is equivalent to A*A*A* on the basis that one cannot go higher than an A at AH and an A* at A-level. AH is meant to be roughly equivalent to a full A-level, although I would imagine A-levels are more in depth as Scottish students typically study more highers, in a wider range of subjects, then A-level ones do. Highers might be more similar to the IB than A-levels in this regard.

    It's also worth noting that a lot of Scottish schools do not (or did not when I was still in school) have particularly good provision for AHs. This was likely because Scottish degrees are designed to begin from where highers finish, making AHs somewhat superfluous unless you wanted to go straight into second year (AHs are roughly equal to first year at Scottish universities) or an English university. In terms of grades, I do recall seeing statistics that something like 3-4 times as many A-level students achieved AAA (this was before the A* was introduced) than higher students achieved AAAAA. This wasn't always particularly well understood south of the border, as I remember seeing situations where mid-level English universities were asking for the same AH grades as Cambridge (who were probably much more aware of the Scottish education system).

    I'm not particularly clued up on how the funding system works at Scottish universities, but my understanding is that is funding is provided for a number of places for Scottish students, and that there is separate funding for rUK places, meaning that they are not competing for places. Therefore, some Scottish universities that are not particularly popular with A-level applicants have entry requirements which are probably less difficult to achieve than for a applicant with highers - and possibly the vice versa too.
    It's worth noting that Scottish applicants with AHs generally have a much lower success rate applying to Cambridge than any other UK region/country.

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    My uncle got an offer for 3D's from Oxford in the 80s
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    (Original post by princesshan)
    My uncle got an offer for 3D's from Oxford in the 80s
    Because he did well in the entrance exam.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Because he did well in the entrance exam.
    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...52006a1xls.xls

    Click on tab 3

    There is a meteoric rise of people getting AAA after the late 90s, but this is down to teaching to the exam I'd say. Comprehensive schools are doing as well as they were in the 90s A Level grades wise.

    These private school kids really wouldn't have made it without daddy smh
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    (Original post by Kyber Ninja)
    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...52006a1xls.xls

    Click on tab 3

    There is a meteoric rise of people getting AAA after the late 90s, but this is down to teaching to the exam I'd say. Comprehensive schools are doing as well as they were in the 90s A Level grades wise.

    These private school kids really wouldn't have made it without daddy smh
    I think you are misreading the data. I've charted it:

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    Independent schools have been consistently ahead of Comps. With selective schools (i.e. grammars) close to the private schools. Not much growth at all from the maintained sector
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    I think you are misreading the data. I've charted it:

    Name:  Screen Shot 2018-03-29 at 23.31.57.jpg
Views: 14
Size:  78.6 KB

    Independent schools have been consistently ahead of Comps. With selective schools (i.e. grammars) close to the private schools. Not much growth at all from the maintained sector
    they've differentiated even further

    These stats are ****ing awful, you charting them like that makes them look even worse lmao definitely worth saving. Have a feeling it will come in handy for the future.

    They do tend to have the best exam coachers though - and with that comes the price. I understand alot of grammars tend to be just as high, but private school students still take up a significant proportion of intake at elite universities, and with stats like these, the unfairness is made clear.

    I guess this is what studies meant when they said there was no real change to standards from the 90s. Maybe not in terms of content or difficulty of papers, but damn some schools have exploited well.

    Props to them, even if it's unfair and annoying.
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    Oxford was that easy to get in back then? Ah now I get it why so many of our dumb politicians managed to go to Oxford, they never were clever
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    (Original post by Kyber Ninja)
    they've differentiated even further

    These stats are ****ing awful, you charting them like that makes them look even worse lmao definitely worth saving. Have a feeling it will come in handy for the future.

    They do tend to have the best exam coachers though - and with that comes the price. I understand alot of grammars tend to be just as high, but private school students still take up a significant proportion of intake at elite universities, and with stats like these, the unfairness is made clear.

    I guess this is what studies meant when they said there was no real change to standards from the 90s. Maybe not in terms of content or difficulty of papers, but damn some schools have exploited well.

    Props to them, even if it's unfair and annoying.
    Yes, and I just realised I misunderstood your comprehesives comment - I thought you meant the comps were nearly as good as private schools in the '90s. Yeah they weren't, and the gap has widened indeed. So all the chat about grade inflation is actually almost entirely driven from pupils at private/selective schools. Interesting... and not something I'd been aware of previously :yy:
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    (Original post by The RAR)
    Oxford was that easy to get in back then? Ah now I get it why so many of our dumb politicians managed to go to Oxford, they never were clever
    Nope, that's definitely not what all this means. Oxbridge students were still *relatively* the most academic (on average).
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Yes, and I just realised I misunderstood your comps comment - I thought you meant the comps were nearly as good as private schools in the '90s. Yeah they weren't, and the gap has widened indeed. So all the chat about grade inflation is actually almost entirely driven from pupils at private/selective schools. Interesting... and not something I'd been aware of previously :yy:
    I don't think parliament is either - they blame it on exam boards when it's really "good teaching" if you can say that.
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    (Original post by The RAR)
    Oxford was that easy to get in back then? Ah now I get it why so many of our dumb politicians managed to go to Oxford, they never were clever
    Yeah, for some reason that went through my head as well; if you look at the graph above this post, you'll see why many of them perhaps made it there by attending Eton/private schools.

    I mean, with lower offer rates then, along with better exam coaching via private schools, a lot of the politicians today didn't need anything outstanding to get in. It's harder to get into other universities today than it was then.
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    (Original post by Kyber Ninja)
    Also, that **** Trump also boasts about going to UPenn, even though he had to buy himself into to a college where most are accepted in the first place?
    I know I’m late to this party, but, just to clarify:

    (1) University of Pennsylvania (UPenn) and Pennsylvania State University (Penn State) are two very different things. UPenn is an Ivy League University, regularly considered among the best in the US. It’s in the “lower ivies” group — Cornell, Dartmouth, and non-ivy elites, such as Hopkins, etc.

    To be specific, Trump went to The Wharton School of Business, which is like the Harvard of business schools in the US. Though, if he did learn anything there, I would say most of it has been lost to him since then.

    (2) Not all “University of ...” names in the US are public universities. New York University, University of Chicago, University of Pennsylvania, Boston University, etc.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    I know I’m late to this party, but, just to clarify:

    (1) University of Pennsylvania (UPenn) and Pennsylvania State University (Penn State) are two very different things. UPenn is an Ivy League University, regularly considered among the best in the US. It’s in the “lower ivies” group — Cornell, Dartmouth, and non-ivy elites, such as Hopkins, etc.

    To be specific, Trump went to The Wharton School of Business, which is like the Harvard of business schools in the US. Though, if he did learn anything there, I would say most of it has been lost to him since then.

    (2) Not all “University of ...” names in the US are public universities. New York University, University of Chicago, University of Pennsylvania, Boston University, etc.
    Fair enough.

    Still bad that he bought his way in - claimed he got the highest in his class when he didn't even finish with honours, along with the fact that one of his profs basically called him an imbecile. He regularly uses his university as a statement of genius, even though he belittles Obama's credentials, saying he got in via AA, even though he wasn't even eligible due to his poor high school grades and went through transfer, and was president of the Harvard Law Review.

    Reminds me of a few on this website tbh
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    (Original post by Kyber Ninja)
    Fair enough.

    Still bad that he bought his way in - claimed he got the highest in his class when he didn't even finish with honours, along with the fact that one of his profs basically called him an imbecile. He regularly uses his university as a statement of genius, even though he belittles Obama's credentials, saying he got in via AA, even though he wasn't even eligible due to his poor high school grades and went through transfer, and was president of the Harvard Law Review.

    Reminds me of a few on this website tbh
    Don’t forget that he actually transferred to UPenn after spending his first two years at Fordham — an average reputable university in New York City. If he was so smart, as he constantly points out, why did he end up at Fordham before transferring?

    And three of his children have gone there as well. A combination of legacy and generous donations are no doubt what the admissions committees have been looking at with regards to the Trump family.
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    (Original post by NYU2012)
    Don’t forget that he actually transferred to UPenn after spending his first two years at Fordham — an average reputable university in New York City. If he was so smart, as he constantly points out, why did he end up at Fordham before transferring?

    And three of his children have gone there as well. A combination of legacy and generous donations are no doubt what the admissions committees have been looking at with regards to the Trump family.
    It must be sad having going to the same uni as these people and having its status *******ised to some extent as a result
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    I think you are misreading the data. I've charted it:

    Name:  Screen Shot 2018-03-29 at 23.31.57.jpg
Views: 14
Size:  78.6 KB

    Independent schools have been consistently ahead of Comps. With selective schools (i.e. grammars) close to the private schools. Not much growth at all from the maintained sector
    That bump in growth is when curriculum 2000 came in. Fully modular A levels with (initially) 3 opportunities to sit AS modules to bump up grades (more for those schools that start AS teaching in yr11) Resits cost money though (so less common in the state sector) and had to be declared on ucas (except if the school was independent and chose to only certify A level grades at the end of sixth form and leave AS uncertified).

    Cash and game playing distorting the system
 
 
 

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