UK returns to budget surplus

May I remind you how this all started. It did not begin with Cameron/Osborne slashing budgets, but with Gordon Brown as chancellor believing he had abolished boom and bust and embarking on a debt-fueled spending spree, confident that future growth would be sufficient to pay for it. But then **** happened and we're still paying for it a decade later. How short must our memories be to already risk making the same mistake again?

A prudent government needs to, at the very least, have a coherent plan about how it intends to balance its budget. We can avoid pain today only at the expense of giving the next generation a much more uncertain future. Because we do not at all know that the next generation will be able to fund even just the same level of benefits that we receive now for themselves, and if we ask them to pay for a good chunk of ours too then that likelihood can only be substantially less.

And by 'the next generation' I largely mean us. And by 'us' I largely mean our parents, but there we go.

General tax on the public is needed for that investment.

We are never going to build enough houses until the government directly commissions houses to be built for example.

The roads needed 20 billion spent on them just to bring them up to good working condition and that’s without building the new roads needed.

And so on.

You're ignoring the impact policy in one period has upon the next.

Labour splashed the cash and made everyone feel good, but economic reality can't be deferred indefinitely. It's pretty myopic to talk about how great everything was under New Labour and how nasty it was under Cameron without addressing the point that the Conservatives were in the unenviable situation of having to clear up Brown's economic mess.

Maybe austerity wasn't fun, but do not doubt that allowing the debt to mount could easily have led to worse problems. It's not as if there are no examples of countries in recent history who failed to cope with their debt burden and screwed over their youth.

And it's not that we're spending money on ourselves, it's that we were spending more money than we were making, and then saying "don't worry, 2020s Britain will pay the difference!". I'm fine with us spending money we have, but spending money we don't have is an obvious problem. Sometimes reality isn't nice, but it's still reality.

Not at all, implementation of laws or regulations to deal with NIMBY councils will help deal with the problem and maybe even partial relaxation of our greenbelt obsession. Direct government funding isn't needed to deal with the "housing crisis", just s reduction in the restrictions imposed by, mostly local, government

as for the roads, where did that £20bn figure come from? And roads do not require state funding (there are countless " but who would build the roads" memes), private road ownership was formerly common in the UK and toll roads are still widespread on continental Europe

You're ignoring the impact policy in one period has upon the next.

Labour splashed the cash and made everyone feel good, but economic reality can't be deferred indefinitely. It's pretty myopic to talk about how great everything was under New Labour and how nasty it was under Cameron without addressing the point that the Conservatives were in the unenviable situation of having to clear up Brown's economic mess.

Maybe austerity wasn't fun, but do not doubt that allowing the debt to mount could easily have led to worse problems. It's not as if there are no examples of countries in recent history who failed to cope with their debt burden and screwed over their youth.

And it's not that we're spending money on ourselves, it's that we were spending more money than we were making, and then saying "don't worry, 2020s Britain will pay the difference!". I'm fine with us spending money we have, but spending money we don't have is an obvious problem. Sometimes reality isn't nice, but it's still reality.

Look you have an ideological hard on for an Uber free market I get that, but I don’t care one way or the other.

All I’m interested in is a pragmatic way to sort the issues.

Doing the things you mentioned on housing will help it will not solve the issue, it’s not in the interest of the house builders and it does nothing for council housing.

With that in mind that requires government to commission house building.

Your suggestion for road maintenance and building is laughable, sorry but nothing more needs to be said on that.

The figures are official ones on road building it’s 14 billion to fix pot holes on their own let alone the extra cost to relay roads.

Of course this isn’t a two issue problem there is tens of structural problems like this that need to be sorted out

Aren't we the only EU nation other than Greece who's wages are still below pre-crash levels? I mean we've had low growth economically, wage stagnation, the destruction of our social services, and the deficit still isn't (properly) eradicated. Perhaps we should of taken a more sensible, mainstream route and actually invested into our economy and our people.

Even May has recognised this and is trying to move more towards one nation/social conservatism, and away from the extreme ultra Liberal hysteria that has affected the Tories and our economy in recent years.

Yep.

I am addressing narrowly the idea that everything was swell under Labour because he got a brand new school but bad under the Conservatives because austerity.

I'm well aware Brown proposed austerity too, but really that backs up my point that it was a simple consequence of economic reality, rather than just a choice made by those nasty Tories.

How many people could say that the last ten years of government has really benefited them?

More than you might think imho.

Unemployment is lower than a decade ago
Income tax is lower for those earning under £40k (about 80% of people)
State pension has risen faster than inflation and earnings growth (good for those over 65)
Minimum wage has risen far faster than inflation and general earnings

I'm not interested in a conversation. It's a waste of time. The positions are just so apposed that we can not even agree on what is the objective reality we are talking about is. I was all idealistic with this sort of thing a couple of years ago.

Yeah the different wings of Labour should be rerpesented on the front bench, or so I thought. Then they enacted a leadership challange and constantly undermined the labour left.

by treating them with intellectual respect you just give legitamcy to thier views which creates the false impression of undecided bystanders that there side is an equally valid point to take. No. If your are a pro trans leftist you are better of just dismissing them as bigots like we do with homophobes. It is a better and more effective strategy.

Yeah politics is cynical and ****, but that is life.

Not at all, implementation of laws or regulations to deal with NIMBY councils will help deal with the problem and maybe even partial relaxation of our greenbelt obsession. Direct government funding isn't needed to deal with the "housing crisis", just s reduction in the restrictions imposed by, mostly local, government

as for the roads, where did that £20bn figure come from? And roads do not require state funding (there are countless " but who would build the roads" memes), private road ownership was formerly common in the UK and toll roads are still widespread on continental Europe

Look you have an ideological hard on for an Uber free market I get that, but I don’t care one way or the other.

All I’m interested in is a pragmatic way to sort the issues.

Doing the things you mentioned on housing will help it will not solve the issue, it’s not in the interest of the house builders and it does nothing for council housing.

With that in mind that requires government to commission house building.

Your suggestion for road maintenance and building is laughable, sorry but nothing more needs to be said on that.

The figures are official ones on road building it’s 14 billion to fix pot holes on their own let alone the extra cost to relay roads.

Of course this isn’t a two issue problem there is tens of structural problems like this that need to be sorted out

x

So we just need to loosen up planning laws and the private sector will deliver all the affordable housing we need? What a ****ing lark.

I guess the alternative is a continued shortage of housing because nothing is able to be built, if you prefer that be my guest, but you seem to much of an angry lefty to think that it's better to have less housing.

The bigger flaw with the logic is that not challenging the ideas probably gives more credibility than ignoring them, not arguing against them means that people can be more easily drawn to agreeing, after all they don't know why it's a bad idea, it gives the ideas credence by saying that you have no argument against it.

Yeah I agree with you completely, by discussing ideas and evaluating them, you can see why some ideas are bad and hence learn from it. If ideas aren't discussed, people begin to follow them without understanding the point of it. This leads them to regress into them, bind it to their identity and shun anyone that thinks different, because anyone that thinks differently must be the worst person in the world.

Aren't we the only EU nation other than Greece who's wages are still below pre-crash levels? I mean we've had low growth economically, wage stagnation, the destruction of our social services, and the deficit still isn't (properly) eradicated. Perhaps we should of taken a more sensible, mainstream route and actually invested into our economy and our people.

Even May has recognised this and is trying to move more towards one nation/social conservatism, and away from the extreme ultra Liberal hysteria that has affected the Tories and our economy in recent years.

The bigger flaw with the logic is that not challenging the ideas probably gives more credibility than ignoring them, not arguing against them means that people can be more easily drawn to agreeing, after all they don't know why it's a bad idea, it gives the ideas credence by saying that you have no argument against it.